Z.W.E.I. Patch/Wishlist

Zane said:
Zwei should have the following moves:
Edit: he should have X-Factor too. I mean, Astaroth has armor :/
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I agree with the "good" Low attack into 66A+B, but 1K might be more balanced...
Good point on the Armor too, didn't think about that, Zwei seems like the kind of character who would have a billion armor attacks, at least armor on 6B+K, right? I believe they shold put Armor on his B+K attack, perhaps for SC6, but he needs something with Armor and B+K isn't really that threatening damage-wise. It gains no meter, does no guard damage, doesn't track, and still has bad range... OK its safe and hits on the ground > CanIHasArmor?
 
As a zwei player what personally bothers me is that most of his moves hit high....thats mean chars with good TC options will gamble their options against zwei, not only that most will get away with this thanks to his bad punishment. When i was playing paranormal oreo he knew this and gambled ezio's A+B and it worked well for him...
He has his guard crush game sure very useful when using 214 B setups...but high guard crush will only get u so far, if u win with it for round 1 well what about round 2 and round 3? when the guard resets u have to do that all that over again...

If we did had a patch 1.04...first I prefer if they fix the whiffing issues off of him...it's really frustrating at times when 66A+B whiffs and it could of won the match or zwei waste meter on his BE's and then his combo whiffs....I want buffs came last for this char...make his throw range better and 6A needs to do its job (catch step left n right) But knowing project soul...which I consider they failed in there last patch (astaroth and viola getting buffed just lol) I feel they don't know what there doing with zwei and end up making him like viola or something lol.... so I want whiffing issues and range issues to be a priority first.

Finally if SC6 comes well....make it a complete game please...so chars like aeon and zwei will get more options with there stances....
 
ZOMBIEBEAR666 said:
I agree with the "good" Low attack into 66A+B
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I wasn't being serious. If you haven't realized it yet, that was Amy's low poke I noted.

On second note, what are you all complaining about anyway? Zwei is god-tier as he is right now. Just learn to use him correctly. If you keep losing to X character, that's because you suck or lack knowledge about such character. If you keep losing to X player that's because you suck or he simply got a better read than you. Simple.
http://8wayrun.com/threads/on-losing.14268/
If anything needs a patch.....

then please let it be one that lets us mute people on mics. The whiffing problems get my vote too. It makes me want to quit SCV when I see Ein punch the air
 
Zane said:
Zwei should have the following moves:
3214123691:B+G
Asura Dance
Ein Bubbles
Ein Doom Combo
Ein Force Grab
3B8 AABB combo
Ein C1, C2, C3
(Ein set) 6B+K
2KB
2B+K that pokes your foot and gives a stun that allows a 66A+B
iEin GDR

THEN he would be an ok character

Edit: he should have X-Factor too. I mean, Astaroth has armor :/
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you missed out iEin Twister :p
 
As for the belief that ZWEI would be broken with a good horizontal mid or a good quick low thanks to his tech traps and unblockable set ups, i think this is far from the truth. His unblockable set ups are difficult to down right impossible to land on anyone who knows ZWEI, anytime you see EIN being delayed it means he's going to go for a guard break and if you are just delaying him you can still side step his 4A on reaction for free. And unless i'm mistaken his tech trap game isnt all that impressive either, from what i see people can ukemi against him without much worry on the majority of his combos.
 
Erm...
@ Zane: You can't be serious? Toilet? hell no. He was alright but to me it wasn't the best play (3AA and 66BA), high level zwei players should focus on getting your opponents to eat your 214 B setups and know when to play keep away.(Atleasts imo)

@Taffertier: Yeah you're right pretty much a fast low or fast horizontal mid would be too much. It's true 4A maybe easy to sidestep but it does have a use and which is why I include it in my top 10 moves for zwei. It's a TC can go under highs and can be used with A+G. After the hit im sure they can't sidestep ein in time and by then when they block ein I go into 214 B for guard pressure. Yeah we know zwei probably has more negatives than positives...eh i still don't think he is "worst" he can be played. Zwei is just one of those chars where he doesn't have a safe BE, doesn't punish well what I like about zwei is u must think outside the box to be successful with him. When u JG moves he mostly only gets 6B to punish, instead do a throw or 214 B abuse his guard break game. 33B BE, 3AA are high/risk high reward im glad this is a char who doesn't have a spammy BE to abuse.....both on hit lead to 70+ damage on hit which is nothing to sneer at. I know alot of people have been frustrated with this char but u must be prepared for that challenge, a challenge I already accepted when I decided to main him.

I remember awhile back people were so negative about zwei,aeon,raph and ezio. But now look ezio is considered average or even above average, people like slade, crow winters, reptile and a few others work hard on those aeon SA's To come up with something positive and something to work with despite aeon's weaknesses. Even the raph forums, alot of idea's are flowing around just to add on to his gameplay despite his cons. TBH I don't feel any of these chars are bad as people make them out to be, all it takes is a few optimistic players and those willing to put in the work to make a difference.
 
I think the problem with quick lows are the B+K BE set ups.
And people are still negative about ZWEI lol. We need to come up with something awesome with ZWEI before we get left in the dust.
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
Erm...
@ Zane: You can't be serious? Toilet? hell no. He was alright but to me it wasn't the best play (3AA and 66BA), high level zwei players should focus on getting your opponents to eat your 214 B setups and know when to play keep away.(Atleasts imo)

@Taffertier: Yeah you're right pretty much a fast low or fast horizontal mid would be too much. It's true 4A maybe easy to sidestep but it does have a use and which is why I include it in my top 10 moves for zwei. It's a TC can go under highs and can be used with A+G. After the hit im sure they can't sidestep ein in time and by then when they block ein I go into 214 B for guard pressure. Yeah we know zwei probably has more negatives than positives...eh i still don't think he is "worst" he can be played. Zwei is just one of those chars where he doesn't have a safe BE, doesn't punish well what I like about zwei is u must think outside the box to be successful with him. When u JG moves he mostly only gets 6B to punish, instead do a throw or 214 B abuse his guard break game. 33B BE, 3AA are high/risk high reward im glad this is a char who doesn't have a spammy BE to abuse.....both on hit lead to 70+ damage on hit which is nothing to sneer at. I know alot of people have been frustrated with this char but u must be prepared for that challenge, a challenge I already accepted when I decided to main him.

I remember awhile back people were so negative about zwei,aeon,raph and ezio. But now look ezio is considered average or even above average, people like slade, crow winters, reptile and a few others work hard on those aeon SA's To come up with something positive and something to work with despite aeon's weaknesses. Even the raph forums, alot of idea's are flowing around just to add on to his gameplay despite his cons. TBH I don't feel any of these chars are bad as people make them out to be, all it takes is a few optimistic players and those willing to put in the work to make a difference.
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Belial
Bloodpixel said:
I think the problem with quick lows are the B+K BE set ups.
And people are still negative about ZWEI lol. We need to come up with something awesome with ZWEI before we get left in the dust.
Click to expand...
Toilet

taffertier said:
As for the belief that ZWEI would be broken with a good horizontal mid or a good quick low thanks to his tech traps and unblockable set ups, i think this is far from the truth. His unblockable set ups are difficult to down right impossible to land on anyone who knows ZWEI, anytime you see EIN being delayed it means he's going to go for a guard break and if you are just delaying him you can still side step his 4A on reaction for free. And unless i'm mistaken his tech trap game isnt all that impressive either, from what i see people can ukemi against him without much worry on the majority of his combos.
Click to expand...
iEin GDR
 
Bloodpixel said:
I think the problem with quick lows are the B+K BE set ups.
And people are still negative about ZWEI lol. We need to come up with something awesome with ZWEI before we get left in the dust.
Click to expand...

Isnt B+K BE a special mid? That means it can be blocked even while guarding low, really all it will do is trick people into thinking it's unblockable.
 
I got an idea for a buff / change that i think would make him better. Possibly too good but we'll see, keep in mind JG and GIs and all that are still possible so dont go thinking this would make him unstoppable.

When you perform 4A or 1B instead of getting the set EIN attack that normally comes out, you can slide an additional input of either A or B to make EIN come out with either his uppercut or high slash. So he kind of has a built in mix up when he goes into these moves. This should definitely help with the "predictable EIN strings" complaint.

Of course i would still think the ideal solution to him would be to retool him completely and make it so he can summon EIN independently of his attacks, but that would take much more time and work.
 
I can understand why they made zweis throw range so short though. His A throw can lead into a 76 damage combo and his B throw can lead into a 72 dmg combo that gains a lot of meter.
 
Bloodpixel said:
I can understand why they made zweis throw range so short though. His A throw can lead into a 76 damage combo and his B throw can lead into a 72 dmg combo that gains a lot of meter.
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explain the B throw damage please. i guess i can see your point he had some good combos but they require meter. its not like you're getting 76 damage for no meter cost
 
Well if you charge the B throw slightly it'll give you more stun time and you can 1k. Of course I may be full of shit like I always am and it might not really be a combo.
 
I find the B throw very hard to apply(for oki)...and I usually take my free 55 damage instead of trying to do a partial hold...I wish they made that throw more consistent or something...
 
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