Zas Matchups

mikosu said:
LiesIncorporated: Are you an experienced tourney player? Seen you post a few good things.
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Thanks. I've been playing here in the Seattle area since SC2, but I only really got into the tournament scene when SC3 was released. I've placed highly/won several local tournaments since then, but the player base here hasn't recovered from the fallout of SC3 VC, and we haven't had regionals here for a long time. Maybe next year, if our player base keeps growing.

Regarding the NM matchup, Zas is actually brutal at punishing 33B- 6BA can punish both 33B and 33B6-> GS A for 40+ damage and big frame advantage. I expect the same is probably true of WS B.

The only options NM has after blocking Zas's 4A that will beat a follow-up 2A are 1K, 66K (trades), 3K, A+B (har har) and 4KK. 4KK is pretty good if he anticipates 2A, but it's still risky on block- Zas can get BB4 against 4K or 6BA against 4KK, if he guesses right.
 
But if Zas guesses wrong, on the ground he goes. Nighty back with the advantage.

Kilik is over Zas 6:4 i agree.
 
On what reason would zass vs kilik be 6:4? There is no logical reason to say zass handles NM and Kilik with same ratio of 6:4. Match ups analyze tools and how they counter from char to char. Zass is stuck with 3K and B+K after pulls cuz of asura. 1B is self explanatory. Zass also loses in range. up close he has to be carefull cuz of kilik's auto gis and evades like ws b. Its a complete waiting game.,.any zass player that can beat a good kilik consistently is in a league of his own.
 
KingAce: Now you know better than to say ish like that in my presence cuz I will test behind you. After his adv draws Zas has answers for both Asura and 1B. If Asura aGIs 3A the first hit of Asura will whiff (better than takin' all 3 if they guess right) and CH his 1B attempt. 22KK will SS Asura and connect with the 2nd kick and it reaches his 1B zone. 22A steps and hits him out of both Asura and 1B.

Zas = mixups son. You both havta guess but Kilik takes less risk doing so.
 
LiesIncorporated said:
Regarding the NM matchup, Zas is actually brutal at punishing 33B- 6BA can punish both 33B and 33B6-> GS A for 40+ damage and big frame advantage. I expect the same is probably true of WS B.
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Are u sure of this? That's pretty decent

The only options NM has after blocking Zas's 4A that will beat a follow-up 2A are 1K, 66K (trades), 3K, A+B (har har) and 4KK. 4KK is pretty good if he anticipates 2A, but it's still risky on block- Zas can get BB4 against 4K or 6BA against 4KK, if he guesses right.
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Thing is NM gets more damage with pretty much most options for interrupting Zas' 2A. Therefore it's in NM's favor to gamble here. Don't forget 66B+K for vs 2A.
 
I knew without even testing that 6BA would lose to 33B6 delayed GS A (much like bullrush) and I was right. NM can also GS KK him out of 6BA if he feels like it.
 
hotnikkelz said:
Are u sure of this? That's pretty decent
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Yeah. NM can beat 6BA after 33B6 if he buffers the grim roundhouse, but that's terribly risky for him on block because he eats FC 3B for big damage.

hotnikkelz said:
Thing is NM gets more damage with pretty much most options for interrupting Zas' 2A. Therefore it's in NM's favor to gamble here. Don't forget 66B+K for vs 2A.
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That is true, but this does allow Zas to control distance, which is arguably worth the risk in many matchups. Throwing 2As is a way to force a less damaging/risky mixup in place of the very unfavorable "whatever they want to do to you" mixup.

Edit:
Tiamat said:
I knew without even testing that 6BA would lose to 33B6 delayed GS A (much like bullrush) and I was right. NM can also GS KK him out of 6BA if he feels like it.
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I just tested again and yes, you are right, NM can beat 6BA if he anticipates it. Zas can still beat the delayed GS A by delaying his own 6BA though, so if you are good at reacting to the GS stance out of 33B you can still punish it with 6BA_delayed 6BA. But yeah, that's going to be very tough to do consistently. Unfortunate.
 
Yeah. NM can beat 6BA after 33B6 if he buffers the grim roundhouse, but that's terribly risky for him on block because he eats FC 3B for big damage.
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Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the FC 3B, 66A+B4, BT B+K combo works consistently on Nightmare on normal hit. That's 74 damage + followups, so GS A and GS KK are always going to be risky.

Another thing, if Zas blocks NM's WS , his 4B:B beats everything except NSS K, which can be ducked and punished with FC 3B. Even if he stands and blocks NSS K or NM uses WS B by itself, they're both 3B4 punishable. Big damage all around

The more I think about this, the more it seems like this is in Zas' favor. And I'm not just being biased, lord know Zas has plenty of bad match-ups (there's no way Zas vs. X is 5:5). I just don't think NM is one of them.
 
I think you guys are forgetting that NM's GS A can be done from any of those attacks, so every vertical u throw out runs the risk of eating GS A on CH, for insane damage and possible RO. iFC 3B seems worth the gamble though. 4B:B not as much. GS ducks such things.

Liesincorporated. Controlling distance means pretty little in the grand scheme of things vs NM.
 
Zass's match-ups are dependant how badly the other character can counter and punish him. If NM is 5:5 then it makes sense for kilik to be 6:4.
I think vs Yun and Maxi it's 5:5 as well.
 
hotnikkelz said:
I think you guys are forgetting that NM's GS A can be done from any of those attacks, so every vertical u throw out runs the risk of eating GS A on CH, for insane damage and possible RO. iFC 3B seems worth the gamble though. 4B:B not as much. GS ducks such things.
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I think you're thinking of 4A:B. 4B is mid and there's no way GS ducks it. It also definitely beats GS A after blocked WS or blocked aB.
 
Qshimitsu said:
I think you're thinking of 4A:B. 4B is mid and there's no way GS ducks it. It also definitely beats GS A after blocked WS or blocked aB.
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uh my bad.
Are u sure about the beating GS A with a vertical though? u need to vary the timing of GS A depending. If that really works, that's hot sauce for Zas i think.
NM's don't use aB though
 
yeah NM's aB is garbage on fire outside certain combos. linear highs are automatic garbage unless they have some other property that is really good
 
Yeah, I just tested and 4B definitely beats GS A after blocked WS . NM can use NSS K or just stand in NSS to avoid the CH, but that's pretty much it.
 
I think Zas is over Yun, or maybe thats just me. Yun's best bet is to space Zas, his up close shenanigans only work on those not knowledgeable. Crane K shouldnt instill any type of fear in you. Yun has slow lows, and linear pressure. I say its 4:6 in Zas's favor.

Same with Maxi, if you know when Maxi is vulnerable, they wont stance shift as much. A lot of Maxi is built around pressure through mind control, he scares you into standing still until he can stance into something tricky that gives either a)+ frames b)low hit. 2A/B+K eats Maxi alive.


Now Ralph, HE gives Zas a really hard time. He can tech crouch everything. 236B beats out 66B. Everything beats out 66B. I find myself stepping to the left and punishing Ralph's mistakes. Ralph has ridiculously long range, to have a weapon shorter than Zasalamels, I dont like that, it doesnt make a lot of sense.
 
I don't really know about Yun. Zas can space him out and punish lots of his stuff, but Yun's KK can be a pain for Zas up close and Yun gets more damage overall. I'm not sure Zas has a really reliable CR crusher outside of 2A, although I think the second hit of 4B+K vs. CR auto-counter will interrupt every time. I'm willing to call it 5:5, but like I said, I don't know much about the match-up.

I agree that Zas. vs. Maxi is in Zas' favor. Maxi has a TERRIBLE time getting in on Zas. Maybe even more so than Kilik (although Zas does bring people in on purpose). It's really easy to space him out. Plus, when Zas pulls him in, Maxi isn't terribly fast and relies a lot on 2A. Zas isn't really a world beater against Maxi's strings, but he can find holes just like anyone else.

And yes, Raph is a pain in the ass. Hes so much faster in Zas' optimal range. He punishes lots of Zas' movelist with 6BB easily and he's pretty safe too. His evasion is also great vs. Zas' linearity; his 4A pretty much stops Zas from CH fishing with 4A/44A.

So I guess I feel:

4:6 vs. Kilik
5:5 or 4.5:5.5 vs. Nightmare
5:5 vs. Yun Seong
6:4 vs. Maxi
4:6 vs. Raph

EDIT: How I feel about some other things:

3:7 or 4:6 vs. Xianghua
4:6 vs. Kilik
4:6 vs. Sieg
4:6 or 5:5 vs. Amy
4:6 vs. Sophie
4:6 vs. Cervantes
4:6 or 5:5 vs. Astaroth
5:5 vs. Taki
6:4 vs. Mitsu
6:4 vs. Rock
6:4 or 7:3 vs. Talim
7:3 vs. Yoda
 
Sieg I feel is 5:5.
Astaroth would be 5:5 if Astaroth's throw didn't hurt like hell.
Amy is 3:7...not even at all, She does this better than Raph.
Xianghua is clearly 4:7.
Sophie can be a straight up 5:5. She is more linear than Zass. Zass has better mixups...just has to watch out for BB, AA and 236B.
Cassandra is a 4:7.
Voldo is 3:7
Mitsurugi is either 5:5 all 4:6 in Mitsu's favor.
 
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