Zwei Tech Trap Discussion

- 2A becomes a tech trap to all sides after 4A+B if the opponent is KND close to you (this is usually close to a wall)
- 3A BE > (B) becomes a set up between 66BA tech trap or 1K BE reset (this can also be applied with 22_88K > (B) or CH (B) alone)
- WR B > BT B+K > G:1(B) becomes a set up between many options since you're using 1(B)K series

I will explain the wall combo reset later, as it has 3 conditional situations which have to be combo-ed differently.

@AndyrooxDS
@DarkRhythm
 
@Zane
That 2A tech trap after 4A+B is going to be good! Basically a free 8+ after 66A+B > 4A+B up at the ring edge because if they don't tech 1K BE is guaranteed for the RO.

After (B) in combos you are in Ein cool down so you cant 1K BE?

( WRB > BT B+K > G > 1B) )The opponent can tech this set up but you get a free 1(B) max charge to use.


+
 
This is pretty big.

After a 1K BE you can do a slight step to the left or right and combo 1K BE again you can use this to send your opponent more to the left or right.(where ever the RO is basically)

From the 1P side doing (1K BE > 8 > 1K BE > 8 1K BE etc) seems a lot easier to perform than (1K BE > 2 > 1K BE > 2 1K BE etc) 11K comes out a lot more often for me.

This makes ZWEIs RO game even better imo.

some ideas include
-3B > 1K BE > 2_8 > 1K BE > 2_8 > 1K BE > A+B.
-A+G > 4B BE >2_8 > 1K BE > 2_8 > 1K BE > A+B.
-88A > 1K BE > 2_8 > 1K BE > 2_8 > 1K BE > A+B. (The big step ZWEI does when he spins around plus the 1K BE its nearly like a reverse RO lol)
-CE > 2_8 > 1K BE > 2_8 > 1K BE > A+B. (A non gimmick RO option from CE lol)

Get this down!

@Zane
@ZOMBIEBEAR666
@FinalLifeG
@DarkRhythm
@TheNamesEpic92
@ENDeverMORE
 
AndyrooxDS said:
After (B) in combos you are in Ein cool down so you cant 1K BE?
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You're right, and I just tested you can't even use 1KBE to cause a ring out either. However, you can always replace 1KBE with 1(B). The cooldown of (B) is gone by the time you use 1(B)
AndyrooxDS said:
you get a free 1(B) max charge to use
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That's what I meant. You can tech back for the safest solution, but for the most part Ein will be charged enough to mix them up with something.

Also, please be aware that step 1K* will whiff on CH to a certain side (if I recall correctly, it will whiff on counter-clockwise step 1K*) but for the most part your list is really good seeing how you can always reposition your opponent for a RO.

Good stuff as always Andy.

Edit: B+K > back step > A+B is a tech trap that catches ALL
 
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As I promised. I will try to explain the 3 types of combos you get from the KNF B reset, and all the other variations. Just to be clear, all these situations happen randomly, so they're totally out of your control, but the variations are not.

For damage purposes, I'm going to be using the most damaging output, which only works against characters with big hitboxes (Astaroth, Nightmare, Zwei, etc.). And for space and presentation purposes I will take this bracket [4B* > W! > 3B > HW! > 214B >] and call it "Starter", since it will be used throughout the post.

Note: Some variations have a 1-5% damage difference. Keep in mind that since it's Zwei we're talking about here, there's a lot more variations than what I've listed.

Reset 1: Up Close
In this reset, you are left close enough to the opponent and the wall to cause a CH stun after the reset, which causes a large damage scale to take place.

[Starter] > 3B > HW! > 66A+B > CE > B+K* > 1K > Ein > 1A = 90% life

Variation 1:

[Starter] > 3B (reset) > HW! > 3B (delayed) > HW! > 6A (delayed + stun) > 66A+B (slight hold) > CE > B+K > CE > B+K > 4A+B

Variation 2:

[Starter] > 3B (reset) > HW! > B+K* > 1K > Ein > CE > B+K > 4A+B

Variation 3:

[Starter] > 3B (reset) > HW! > 1K* (stun removed) > CE > B+K > 4A+B


Reset 2: Pushed Away
In this reset, you are automatically pushed away from the wall and the opponent during the KNF B and 3B inputs, completely removing the CH stun in the reset.

[Starter] > 3B (reset) > HW! > B+K (air launch) > CE > B+K* > 1K > Ein > 1A = 95% life

Variation 1:

[Starter] > 3B (reset) > HW! > B+K* > BB > Ein > CE > B+K > 4A+B

Variation 2:

[Starter] > 3B (reset) > HW! > 1K* (stun removed) > CE > B+K > 4A+B

Reset 3: Facing Front
This is the weirdest one to come across, but it happens nonetheless. Usually this is seen when the wall combo goes from one wall to another. In this case, the opponent is reset to facing front (you) when the reset is applied, as opposed to facing the wall. Because of this, high wall splats are no longer possible, and thus neither are most of the combo possibilities from the other resets.

[Starter] > 3B (angle reset) > W! > 3B > W! > 1(B) > Ein > 6A > 66A+B (slight hold) > CE > B+K > CE > B+K > 4A+B = 90% life

Variation 1:

[Starter] > 3B (angle reset) > W! > 3B > W! > 1(B) > Ein > 3B > 1K* > CE > B+K* > 1K > Ein > 1A

If you see that in certain combos I mention a BE + 2 CEs and you're wondering how that's possible, it means that during the reset you gained back enough bar for one more BE.

Lastly, keep in mind that you can add resets within the resets and that I have not added clean hit damage, A+G in the starter, and 2K as the combo ender. So, essentially this means the damage can be extended further more.

Don't forget that this reset can be avoided by doing a jumping move or breaking the grab (if you can). If they do end up doing a jumping move, they take a 3B launcher and you get a whole different reset....

and the cycle starts anew.

@ZOMBIEBEAR666
@AndyrooxDS
@DarkRhythm

-Zane
 
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After a launch like with a CE or HW! I have been experimenting with B+K BE then 214B as they get up. It has tricked even some of the better players I have fought as long as it isn't overused. Im sure you know all about this stuff but I just realized its potential recently.
 
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New Tech Traps (tech trap indicated by >>)

B+K* > 66B+K > Ein >> G: 4A+B (all sides)
B+K* > 66B+K > Ein >> delayed 3A* (all sides)
B+K* > 66B+K > Ein >> G:662_668A (all sides)
B+K* > 66B+K > Ein >> delayed 66B (all sides)
B+K* > 66B+K > Ein >> G:CE (all sides)
66A* > Ein >> delayed 3A* (all sides)
B+K* > 4B > Ein >> 44B (all sides but back)
B+K >> delayed A+B (all sides)
B+K >> delayed 3A* (all sides)

I highlighted my favorite ones.

-Zane
 
Um so I learned today that if you B+K BE then B+K the BE ein still comes out after the regular B+K.

So for example you could B+K BE > B+K > catch them getting up guarding with 214B and the BE Ein will connect.

Another silly trick that I will most likely never use is B+K BE > 4B BE > W! > Ein > W! > Back grab. Only does like 82 damage but its cool to look at.
 
Since "Left" and "Right" teching can be confusing sometimes (seeing how in the game there are two lefts and rights) for future references I will be using CW for clockwise teching, and CCW for counter-clockwise teching.

Remember >> signifies the tech trap move, and for damage purposes I'm using the max you can get out of the tech trap.

A+G > 4B* >> forward step and/or delayed WR B > BT B+K > G:1K* > CE > B+K > 4A+B = all sides except CCW for 180-200dmg

B+K* > 4B* > Ein >> run towards the opponent > WR B > G:1K*x2 > 66BA = front and back for 190-206dmg

You guys are going to love this one:

1(B)~K > Ein > CE > 66(A+B) >> CE > B+K > 4A+B all sides except CW for 197-206dmg


-Zane
 
CE > B+K > 4A+B >> 2A = all sides but back, and leaves you at +8

CE > B+K > 4A+B >> 4B = all sides except CW and can lead to more resets

So, after the CE there's three options the opponent can do. Either tech back with the risk of getting hit by 4B* and a full combo or reset. Tech CW and take a 2A that leaves the Zwei player at advantage. Or stay grounded and risk taking a 1K* for yet another combo/reset.

No matter what the opponent chooses, after Zwei's CE they will get hit by something, it's all a matter of "what"

The Zwei project has died recently btw :/ what happened to everyone?
 
Dunno I kinda given up on zwei in a sense, I mean I still use him but I just been using yoshi, siegfried, nightmare, and alpha more. The thing that just really pisses me off is why are his tech traps so damn situational? An example: Zwei lands 3A BE > 66B catches back tech while 3A A catches side but what does he have to fear opponents into teching? if they stay down a bit or roll they can even punish you for attempting stuff like 66BA, 3AA.

Everything that he does is just so dependant on how the opponent acts. Which just makes me lose faith in his tech trap game let alone a bit of him. B+K BE works best on oki, but if they opponent just blocks it then what? you offense stops right there. 214 B can work but it can easily just be GIed all of this stuff with how the opponent reacts is just annoying let alone he doesn't have anything threating to get people to tech.

I pretty much just do unblockable cancels all day and try to CH fish.
 
EyeofCalamity said:
why are his tech traps so damn situational?
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They're not. If you look at the tech traps I have posted, I've made sure to make them catch most if not all sides. This way, the opponent is the one who has to do the work in figuring out which side to tech, not you doing do the work on when to use them.

EyeofCalamity said:
An example: Zwei lands 3A BE > 66B catches back tech while 3A A catches side but what does he have to fear opponents into teching?
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Alright, first I know of nobody in this world who would do a tech trap after 3A BE, let alone myself. Instead we do 3A BE > (B) >> 66B or 66BA. It does more damage, and the 66B tech trap catches ALL sides. In addition, if they stay grounded you can catch them with 1K, 1(B) with the right delay, or other stuff. To top all this, you don't even have to do the 3A BE > (B) >> 66B tech trap. You can also go for a whole new reset with 66(A+B). So: 3A BE > 66(A+B) > 214B > Ein > 1(B) > A+G > Ein > ............ and the cycle goes on and on.

I don't know how to explain this, but Zwei is not really a character you can "teach", I mean you can learn and all, but he's one of those that requires just so much dedication. I guess since I'm a wolf lover and I've always been passionate about them, that sort of keeps me "inspired" to do better. Err....

Of course this^ along with the rest of your post and mine is just an individual opinion and playstyle, so if what you're doing is paying off in a match, why stop doing it? Sucks to hear you left the pack, though. Hope to see you back when Zwei is not so "bad".

-Zane
 
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I just made a really cool discovery every can impliment into there game easily.

I tested this vs Natsu's WRK.

Off of Zweis 66A+B you can use 1A as a follow up and you be put into +17 with them on the ground.

Test was, Zwei 66A+B -> 1A -> 66A+B (Which will track tech and roll in this situation)

I used Natsu's WR K from grounded position, Both moves tie in colision after 1A hits, Natsu's Wr K = 14 , Zweis 66A+B = 31, 31-14=+17 (the only thing to note is that you cant get a free FC K, so its not a traditional +17. You have a big advantage but they can still block. But they have to block too. Make it count.

Options for wake up off of 1A
1(B) If you think they will attack, this is your best oprion to CH and score big damage. Draw back is the safty of 1B.

44A another good CH bait attack. Dont use if they are just going to block, you will whiff everytime if they do not advance in this situation

214B For the turtle. Can be Inerupted
66A+B same as above but hits grounded and cannot be avoide in this situation.
1K minimal risk with good position. BE makes this into a Frame Trap. Watch out for GI.
FCK Its 14 frames. Its going to be hard to block this.

Get creative with it :).


Another great Tech tracp imo would be 3A BE 1A. It catchs all directions and if they decide to just take it, you can mix into the UB for a total of 99 Damage. If they tech, 1A will always hit and caue 72-75 damage.

6A into a delayed 1A will Tech trap as well 100%.
 
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