Character Matchup Tier Project

For the range problem, Amy's 33B and 66A+B track opposite sides, though admittedly only at a specific range. Both TC and cannot be punished by Sieg on block. If Sieg is trying to step them sometimes he will step and punish, sometimes he will be the one who gets snagged, unless he did step G, in which case amy is negative and sieg can try for (unsafe or weak) mixup, but now amy is closer so the spacing issue is lessened.

Please give some example situations where you can use 2_8B+K vs amy's 6BB.

I could see you argue for 5-5 but Sieg having advantage I can't see yet.
 
HajimeOwari said:
Just out of curiosity, who is still reppin' Yoshi out there?
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Ramon! He mains Sophie and Yoshi is his second.

Other Maxi tidbits:

Seeing how I play Kilik and Hilde there is also a noticeable difference when fighting Maxi with Hilde than Kilik vs. Maxi.

For whatever strange reason that scrubby character is somehow difficult vs. her but I can't quite put a finger on why yet.
 
Something-Unique said:
Ramon! He mains Sophie and Yoshi is his second.

Other Maxi tidbits:

Seeing how I play Kilik and Hilde there is also a noticeable difference when fighting Maxi with Hilde than Kilik vs. Maxi.

For whatever strange reason that scrubby character is somehow difficult vs. her but I can't quite put a finger on why yet.
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Who's Maxi is giving you problems, KDZ's? If it's him, I think it's because he knows some stuff to use in that matchup since he uses both Maxi and Hilde and plus, as much as I hate to admit it, that scrub can actually play pretty well with anyone.

Edit: Didn't see Hotnikklez comments about the Maxi-Kilik matchup. 5/5? All the comments you wrote down look good on paper...hell, next time I play a good Kilik I will try to execute what you mentioned. From all the videos of Maxi i've seen haven't seen anyone use B+K effectively as a whiff punisher, that seems to be the main thing you list and maybe it's what makes the difference. Maxi has always had that move but in SC2 and SC3 I never really needed it to succeed with him. Maybe in this game now it's a necessity. But from what i've experienced so far with Kilik vs Maxi that move can't make THAT much of a difference. Your anti asura moves sounds nice and I use them myself but let's be real....you're gonna use 3B, 4B, 1B to start your offense at some point and when a Kilik player who's good with Asura guesses a couple of them, it's gonna get discouraging real quick.
 
hotnikkelz said:
Rock vs Mina is 6/4 in Rock's favor.


Runis:
Rock easily gets 2G+B -> 9B-> 6B+K vs hilde. He may not get B+K, but 9B is by far stronger anyway, common knowledge for Rock players i hope. If she JUkemi's after, he gets crouch throw tech trap. This is an even matchup. Rock will muscle through with bullrush, and she can't rely on her doom combo here. He has it far better than other characters.
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From Rock himself.... enough said... plus i pretty much NEVER do B+K against any characters after 2B+G because it's just so unreliable most of the time..

to add on what Rock said... unless you're REALLY greedy for GT... any combos that ends with 6B+K/9B you get amazing wake up game afterwards.

if 9B-> 6B+K ender works.. to me.. that's what i usually do most of the time anyways.... that to me isn't a loss for Rock's part....

even if that combo fails... we're really not taking away THAT much from rock... compared to hilde who loses death combo.... which is her staple juggle...no matter how bad it is... not to mention 2B+G -> A+B will always work for some RO awesomeness...

-LAU
 
copy and pasted from a post in the korean vids topic

"- B+K is i19 mid
- B+K is two hits so try to react and stop if blocked, continue if hit
- CF in 13 blocks (just the B+K part)
- about -6 on block, you can step i13 K after it is blocked
- 51-67 damage (normal version-perfect JF)
- use as sidestep whiff punish and to punish crouch guard

If you can use it like this, it is probably maxi's best move"

now take into account both maxi's front grabs do 50 damage and give him pretty good oki, and I don't see how he could be all that bad, at least for someone with good execution

I don't like how other characters, like yoshi, are allowed upgrades due to high execution skill but low tiers aren't. Pretty retarded if you ask me.
 
As a side note for Keev vs Hayate vids, keep in mind this is their looser bracket match, earlier in the tournament Hayate kicked Keev of the winner bracket, winning 3 - 1 :)
 
S-U that was the most vague response i've seen so far

I've list specifics cuz I have played this matchup quite a bit after getting my ass handed by Kilik so many times. All you got is 6AA vs sheningans? What does that even mean? 6AAA? is that the extent of Kilik's anti-maxi?
I will repeat this for all to understand.
Defeating a loop does not = defeating maxi


Krayzie, it's not just on paper, i guarantee it works cuz i do it, and if i can do it, then ANYONE can. It's all a matter of being basic and application. Indeed B+K is a NECESSITY for maxi, without you've shaved his potential almost in half instantly. I urge you if you haven't already apply it before you shut down what i say completely. Everything i sad is viable and there's no theory in it, cuz it's what i personally do.
Personally i hardly use 3B due to it's range, but i do 4B a fair bit and many options beat AD after it easily. If you meant that eventually AD > 4B and not the followups, i think that goes for ANY character and is not specific for Kilik vs Maxi. Any character who does a mid like that risks being Gid by AD, with Maxi there is no difference, but he is one of the guys who can at least punish AD well, and that makes a big difference here. If i was S-class i would've done 6B:B:B post block AD as well. I mean B+K jf does 67 and Kilik landing it does a lil bit more? i'm not sure of damage. I think it's just about a fair gamble for both. Maybe it's a stretch to call it 5/5 but 7/3 or 8/2 is a bit too much imo.

vs Cervy my biggest issue vs him, is his3A+B. That move > stepG and pretty much everything which is critical for Maxi especially. It is pretty spammable in general cuz maxi cannot punish it. That coupled with Cervy's A+K and B+K application as well as intelligent gambling with 3B works heavily in his favor. Maxi can barely punish 3B (only getting K). Hence this match is 7/3 in cervy's favor. His damage output is severe, and even more severe on CH which is likely vs Maxi.
 
I think KDZ is right in that Siegfried actually does have a slight advantage on Amy, but for the wrong reasons. Amy's not gonna spam 6BB against him unless she is being played by some kind of mental defective. He *IS* able to float around and poke at long enough range to frustrate her, however. 22kA:2A from range is really important in this match, too.
 
Still sounds like crap to me, I'll wait on Ice for that one and/or get some Amy players thoughts on it.

hotnikklez changed his mind about cervy vs maxi so ill change that one to 7-3 in a bit (though I still don't really see it but whatever, I'm minority opinion on that it seems)

alternative format, not sure if I like it better or not, thanks to Runis for suggestion
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pXgx07JiZcBDCTuihySVIBw&hl=en

edit: I'm told you need an account there to see this. blah. will update text file in first post later, guess ill put this link too
 
Tia, You need to change the permissions on your spreadsheet so that it's open to public I think.
 
yeah I figured it out, should work now. I kinda find the other thing easier to read personally but oh well, people can pick which one they like better ill just update both
 
KrayzieCD said:
Who's Maxi is giving you problems, KDZ's? If it's him, I think it's because he knows some stuff to use in that matchup since he uses both Maxi and Hilde and plus, as much as I hate to admit it, that scrub can actually play pretty well with anyone.
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You win a tournament and you suddenly got a mouth on you.
<3

Hates:
I'm hoping my post didnt imply 6BB spam. I was just using it as an indication of range. Good points though, they were what I was trying to get at, you said it better.

Tiamat:
Siegfried, people forget, can be played extremely roachy. One of the best lows in the game that kills step and hits from range (40+ on CH) in a+kA2A, B6, iagA, a+kA series in general, 22B, all of these push her far out of range to be a consistent threat to Siegfried. If you guess wrong a lot or mess up inputs, you're going to shift this matchup to a 6:4 in Amy's favor, but playing at range and using 22_88B+K or 22_88B to step her moves really hurt her.
 
hey. I'm agreeing that sieg vs amy is either 5-5 or 6-4 for sieg. I agree with most of the stuff KDZ said... but as a sieg player myself, i feel that one of the biggest reasons this matchup is tougher for amy is because for some strange reason flapjack 3B is guaranteed on amy at all parts of the ring. Amy gets a free 66B from a guarded flap jack (-16 on block)...Plus ts really hard to do with the double input.... and nothing else meaty. Not even a WSK IIRC.

I will post up the X details soon. Been thinking about my replies.
 
Yeah i did :) I'll still be doing some re-testing to make sure i dont sound dumb. I also don't get to play against all the matchups often because there are very few players here. So yeah I forget lots of stuff. Lol.
 
Runis said:
2B+G A+B whiffs against Hilde AFAIK. you can't Ro her with it...
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interesting... but it's ok i rarely get a chance to use that to RO anyways... but it's nice to know it doesn't work so i wouldn't try

-LAU
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ShenYuan said:
Yeah i did :) I'll still be doing some re-testing to make sure i dont sound dumb. I also don't get to play against all the matchups often because there are very few players here. So yeah I forget lots of stuff. Lol.
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nobody does...

at least as far as i know... you kinda need a good player to play against to have a character match up list accurate.....

and to me.. this is what i worry about the most....

-LAU
 
KDZaster said:
You win a tournament and you suddenly got a mouth on you.
<3
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Oh I just now grew a mouth?! Fool do I have to link that video of me drunk and trash talking you for 19 straight minutes last time I was out there for that SC3 tourney?

Hotnikklez: PLEASE come to Evo....wanna see you take on all the good Kilik players like Something-Unique and Wing-Zero with Maxi.
 
Nigga, seriously?
Your dumb drunk fool ass just running your dumb drunk fool ass mouth while I beat you with SC3 Sieg?

Don't link that shit, it would undermine your position as village idiot.
 
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