Sophie Match-up Rankings

[MONEYMUFFINS]

unless u want me to say Vints vs X is like a 5.5

That's what a personalized chart is supposed to suggest, isn't it? I mean, if it's so personal, doesn't it really look like that for everyone?



This person's best character Vs. Amy is __.
This person's best character Vs. Astaroth is __.
This person's best character Vs. Cassandra is __.
Etc., etc...



Calling me a "retard" for my belief on the matchup isn't right... because I'm saying that, I, personally shouldn't lose to X... since this applies to me, and not necessarily anyone else. Keep in mind, that's only if I DID create a matchup chart... which I won't, because like I said, it applies to me. Everyone thinks different... and, realistically, by trying to create a collective chart, you are essentially saying that, "yeah, if you don't follow this, then there is something wrong with you." Well, I doubt anybody wants to come across that way. Except for Jaxel???

Haha. Why would you want to speak for everyone anyway? If it's just your chart, go ahead and make a thread on it. I'm sure somebody will appreciate getting to know your thought processes behind each decision made.

 

[Ramon]

this is the thread... once again if you dont have anything to contribute...then bye...

 

[Tiamat]

Setsuka vs Sophie

4:6 (sophie favor)

Nightmare : Sophie

3.5:6.5 (sophie)

reasons: because i said so

-LAU

I can't see Sophie having more than a 6-4 advantage on NM. I think NM can space her decently and his mixup range is a lot bigger so I think if he plays mostly turtle style he can wear her down with throws/11K/1K etc. I almost feel like this is 5-5 but I'll take your word for it since I haven't played any strong Sophie players in SC4.

 

[Ramon]

tiamat i've been playing thermidor, our nyc NM player, and i feel what you say...its a tricky matchup definetly!

 

[BelovedChild]

Sisters wreck Raphael's game, and Raphael can't space Soph like he can Cassandra(though Cass shuts down prep even better with 2B+K).

7:3 Soph seems fair in that one o_o.

 

[ZONG_one]

Sisters wreck Raphael's game, and Raphael can't space Soph like he can Cassandra(though Cass shuts down prep even better with 2B+K).

7:3 Soph seems fair in that one o_o.

Raph taking a beating today...

But Sophie is like god-tier, so what can you do?

 

[LAU]

sophie vs NM is definitely sophie's advantage without a doubt... NM can space her but as far as mixup range goes... i'm not too sure what you're talking about... unless you're talking about NM's throw range (which is huge).... yes that's true... I was the one who abuse the shit out of that.. however on the other hand sophie punishes NM's stance game better than most characters

also sophie's superior step definitely makes things harder for NM

Ramon:
I'm willing to put my sophie on a test against your NYC NM if I got a chance in the future.



-LAU

 

[The-Instigator]

This is going to piss off Rock fans indefinately, so here goes nothing... Rock:Sophitia ===> -1:11 (IMHO) *hides in a Rock-proof shelter*.

 

[Maxou]

Lau : about Setsuka vs Sophitia, I am totally impressed about what you said ... what's your answer to 4A? I guess it is to duck on reaction then punish ? Waw !

 

[MTfighter]

for 4a to hit, don't you have to be running towards her or something? I didn't think it had range, and if you're doing bb from a decent spot, I don't think it'll ch. but I could be wrong :/

btw ramon, i still think X vs sophie is 5-5. even if 25b is a problem, when you're in range, you can punish her for it. you can step all her launchers to the same side iirc. it's been awhile since I tested this but I think you can 777b and that'll duck 66a, and step 66b/66k at range. you can ASB her 3b, ASB her 1a, you can parry the second hit of 6a+b/4a+b. every transition into that stance can be 2a on reaction if you block the first hit i believe, and her aab put you both at neutral on hit :/. her aa is really bad on block as well. still don't see why she has an advantage, but hopefully i get to play serge and everyone else again at jaxels in a few weeks

now why is tira a 7-3 matchup? I thought she was safe. I don't know the match up though so could ya explain it to me?

 

[LAU]

Lau : about Setsuka vs Sophitia, I am totally impressed about what you said ... what's your answer to 4A? I guess it is to duck on reaction then punish ? Waw !

how do you duck BB? i'm just curious.. yes i realize it's good range move back

but BB move forward mid long range for it's speed....

i'm confused how your 4A works well against my BB... please explain

-LAU

 

[Maxou]

LAU : Malek notified us in our french forum about your post and in France our Setsuka players were like "lol".

I'll translate what reactions your post provoked :

Obi :

He says Sophi's BB can be spammed and completely kills Setsuka ... what a joke !

Sophi does BB and Setsu blocks :
(If afterwards Sophi does )

- BB : 4A is CH
- AA : 4A is CH
- 236B : 4A is CH
- 236AA : the backdash of 4A evades the first A and the second one can be blocked and punished.
- B+K : 4A is NH airhit
(added by me : - 4B+K : 4A is CH)
- any other move non-TC (or TC depending on frames like 33A) : 4A is CH

Maxou (me) : was answering to the 8 points you made when you answered tresto

that post kinda made me laugh.

His reasoning is like totally bad.

1. 214A/3K/throw after a blocked BB kills BB spams
2. You don't have to do BB against Sophi, don't forget about 3K/214A/214K/33B/214B/etc... BB is not the single middle close range you have...
3. Why does he want to duck against BB, 214 allows us to use FC/WS moves directly when you stand...
4. Why does he talk about A+K?
5. Totally class ... BBing me before I hit... why not?
6. He's wrong. 1AA does have a very good range and is a very good tool against Sophi but you shoulnd't use it because if you do the JF and get blocked you're likely to get punished by 236236B 236236B
7. He's still living in SC3, Setsuka's range is very good in SC4 (as good or more than Sophitia's) and it's not a max range BB who'll prevent me to throw. Exemple : Sophi tries an antistep like 66A, Setsuka's in a perfect range for a throw... afterwards it's mind game.
8. Setsuka doesn't have a better step than Sophi's. More rewarding but not better.

Well, I kinda understand his point of view, if you do BB "intelligently" like he said and if it's blocked you backdash the not-enough range moves, you GI/autoGI the mids, you step the moves that can be stepped, you block and punish lows, you attack before Setsuka if she does a slow move, you guard against the fast one and... everytime you take the correct decision then okay, every char can be a threat against Setsuka ...

... I am sorry but it seems the guy doesn't know what he is talking about.

Then Saitoh comes and tell us not to reject your opinion that fast because you're the serious kind of guy, and tell us to post it here.

so... Maxou :

I know the guy isn't a clown, that's why I am surprised.
It's like I told you Asta couldn't compete with a BB spamming because afterwards everytime Sophi will take the correct decision and you can't do anyother moves because BB is so fast and it'll hit before you do.

What Obi said is 100% true and tested (range dependant about 236AA), what I said is 100% true and tested.
Of course I suppose he doesn't talk about doing BB everytime, even after a blocked BB but... he supposes the Setsuka can't adapt to the other player and of course you're likely to win in a situation like that because you'll overcome everytime your opponent. BB is good but it is not the ultimate move against Setsuka, BB as a defensive move will not bother me, it is not the move that'll make me take the wrong decision.

Idate Morino :

+1 with the Setsuka's. I find that saying you can contain a character with only BB is too much, especially with the arguments that comes.

Well LAU, I do not care about the Sophi-Setsuka match up, you have your opinion, I have mine. But ... your point of view about BB shutting down Setsuka is totally wrong, even if you cleverly use it as you said. You'll still give Setsuka the advantage she needs to do something if it's blocked, the first B can be easily stepped (it's the second one that is tracking) and Setsuka can do something before the second one hits. You can't be assured from a neutral adv. to push button as fast as your opponent and hence to hit him before he does (exemple : 4A vs BB, 33B vs BB, 3K vs BB, 214A vs BB....). And if there is disadvantage, even a little, it's not you who'll have the risk/reward, it is the Setsuka.

And you said in one of your previous post :

dude... the points you made above... can be said about setsuka vs ANY characters... however... you didn't address ANYTHING that is sophie vs setsuka specific

well.. dude ... the points you made above can be said about Sophitia vs ANY characters... however... you didn't address ANYTHING that is Sophi vs Setsuka specific
BB is a good move against any character, but it's not a better move against Setsuka.

If you want to talk about Setsuka vs Sophitia specific stuff, let's talk... as an exemple, about 4A shutting down a lot of Sophitia's option since it often hits her TC moves (4B+K, 33A or 66A - don't remember which one TCs)....

EDIT : Thanks Suirad.

 

[mikosu]

now why is tira a 7-3 matchup? I thought she was safe. I don't know the match up though so could ya explain it to me?

Sophi has a tiny range adv on Tira I believe and all her ranged moves are pretty much better in every way. Sophi can EWGF all but 2 of Tira's lows on block. That fear alone handicaps the matchup. Good thing is when Sophi makes a mistake Tira can punish pretty nicely and it's easier to deal with in GS. 7:3 for Sophi seems fine for now.

 

[Ramon]

keep it on topic or im deleting the posts...thanks

 

[Maxou]

On topic : I believe Sophitia vs Setsuka is 6-4 in favor of Setsuka.

Why? No distance problem overall for Setsuka, more damage opportunities with Setsuka (more rewarding step although Sophi has a better one/more damaging throws/more evading stuff and it's less risky with Setsuka/more frame traps > 214A is very good).

Sophitia prevents 1AA (heavy punition since the pushback of the JF can get Sophi into the perfect range for the 236236B 236236B combo), 6K which is 2 very good tool of Setsuka away.
I find Setsuka being hard to be hit by 4B+K since > she has a lot of TC moves, the move being very linear, that's asking for 86 damage of the sakura combo. It is hard for Sophitia to rush Setsuka down since 4A deals with a lot of her options.

ALTHOUGH I believe the match up could very well be 5:5 if you can master the B2BB combos since it hits Setsuka. Those combos deal so much damage... up to 100 IIRC.

(le secret de polichinelle révélé pour Mark Nikil !!)

 

[Tiamat]

sophie vs NM is definitely sophie's advantage without a doubt... NM can space her but as far as mixup range goes... i'm not too sure what you're talking about... unless you're talking about NM's throw range (which is huge).... yes that's true... I was the one who abuse the shit out of that.. however on the other hand sophie punishes NM's stance game better than most characters

also sophie's superior step definitely makes things harder for NM

Ramon:
I'm willing to put my sophie on a test against your NYC NM if I got a chance in the future.



-LAU

LAU that will be so unfair, lol.

I just don't feel like NM has to use much stance moves against sophie to win so her being able to punish well isn't as big a deal. your lows and throws are better than hers are so you should win turtle war if you use good spacing with backdashes and steps. for mids just use 11K and WS K as your core stuff and use 33B/3B/WS B if she starts getting cute. as a side note, unlike in SC3, 236AA is no longer guaranteed against WR B on block...so thats nice. shes still faster than NM and has some nice TCs, and better tracking/CF than cass though.

 

[LAU]

LAU : Malek notified us in our french forum about your post and in France our Setsuka players were like "lol".

I'll translate what reactions your post provoked :

Obi :

Maxou (me) : was answering to the 8 points you made when you answered tresto

Then Saitoh comes and tell us not to reject your opinion that fast because you're the serious kind of guy, and tell us to post it here.

so... Maxou :



Idate Morino :



Well LAU, I do not care about the Sophi-Setsuka match up, you have your opinion, I have mine. But ... your point of view about BB shutting down Setsuka is totally wrong, even if you cleverly use it as you said. You'll still give Setsuka the advantage she needs to do something if it's blocked, the first B can be easily stepped (it's the second one that is tracking) and Setsuka can do something before the second one hits. You can't be assured from a neutral adv. to push button as fast as your opponent and hence to hit him before he does (exemple : 4A vs BB, 33B vs BB, 3K vs BB, 214A vs BB....). And if there is disadvantage, even a little, it's not you who'll have the risk/reward, it is the Setsuka.

And you said in one of your previous post :


well.. dude ... the points you made above can be said about Sophitia vs ANY characters... however... you didn't address ANYTHING that is Sophi vs Setsuka specific
BB is a good move against any character, but it's not a better move against Setsuka.

If you want to talk about Setsuka vs Sophitia specific stuff, let's talk... as an exemple, about 4A shutting down a lot of Sophitia's option since it often hits her TC moves (4B+K, 33A or 66A - don't remember which one TCs)....

EDIT : Thanks Suirad.

Thanks for your long constructive post...

don't really have the time right now to really read into it but trust me I WILL take a look into it again when i get a machine infront of me...

I just wanna say... the post before I made was a REPLY made to the other players... you kinda need to copy his post and post what i replied for it to make sense... or else it won't make any sense at all..... stuff like ducking and getting up and A+K are stuff that you kinda need to post the other guy's post and post my reply to make sense.

regardless

of who's right and who's wrong and how i'm using BB vs how you guys are using BB
it might boil down to difference in opinions and experience. Perhaps this certain strategy ONLY works against CF's Setsuka and no one else... or perhaps nobody plays sophie the way i play sophie in France (obviously i use much more moves/strategy than just BB... i simply point out one of the few things i believe Setsuka got a problem against with the way i play Sophie)..... or perhaps the combination of aboe.

anyways thanks for the comment, i'm sure i'll learn something from it

-LAU

 

[tresto]

Nice to have open-minded answers. Much better than some other SAs ^^

Are there any videos where you play Sophitia vs Setsuka ? I think it would be very enlightening to actually see how you use BB to shut down Setsuka. Maybe you have some kind of major breakthrough tactic that nobody though about before which would be super powerful or something.

 

[LAU]

Like I said before I learn a lot from the thread before.

I tested setsuka's 4A vs Sophie's BB.... lets just say it's not a clear cut as what the french says or I say. However I already made my own conclusion.

If people are curious about the results.... someone else should test it too and give their opinion on it...

I'm done with giving my opinion.

-LAU

 

[Maxou]

LAU : We never said BB is a bad tool which shouldn't be used, but it isn't the tool that will be the most dangerous for a Setsuka and the tool which will "kill" the match up. Besides the 4A is not the only tool you have in order to deal with BB (try 214A, 3K, throws, ... a lot of stuff can be used !).

Now that your opinion seems to have changed about the BB that was supposed to make it so easy for Sophitia, do you still stick with 6-4 in favor of Sophitia against Setsuka?

I would be interested in your results of your testing, could you post them or PM them to me?