The future of Algol, Hilde and Star Wars

OOFMATIC said:
True but I don't see it as the characters fault. It's mainly the community's fault for blowing it out of proportion and making a bigger deal about it than it needs to be.

Like Psylocide I don't really care if NE/NJ bans or not, since I don't live there. I just hope this doesn't catch on as a nationwide thing, since those guys do have a big influence on the community.

And Bubbles, I don't see why you care so much, it's not like you play in offline tournaments. :P
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idle told me to back him up =P
 
Well Star Wars and Bonus characters haven't been mentioned since page one. I guess nobody has a problem with them anymore?

I'd also like someone to point out exactly how banning Hilde would bring in more players, instead of just leaving it to a few sentences or referencing it vaguely, because I'm really not seeing it.
 
scrub sees hilde dooming players left and right and is discouraged from trying to better himself as a player because he's convinced that he can't beat hilde, so he opts out of trying to play soul calibur 4

and i can say, she almost affected me the exact same way. after watching RTD ring out very good players that had legitimate skill at the ATL regionals, i haven't been back to another atlanta tournament because i don't have enough offline experience against doom-whoring hildes to even try to beat him (or her). :/
 
Eyce_Theon said:
I'd also like someone to point out exactly how banning Hilde would bring in more players, instead of just leaving it to a few sentences or referencing it vaguely, because I'm really not seeing it.
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Yeah, I asked that question a lot so... I think the best answer we are going to get is, "It couldn't hurt?"

Which isn't all that great, but... we aren't making the decision.
 
Well since Algol is unbanned, and free. I think it's time for me to make a comeback with him, ince my boy SK is out. My old team of Talim, Algol, and Yoshi might return. Also about Hilde bening ban and such. I'm saying no because all she is MK of SC4, so I gotta live with that.

P.S.

Algol is back in this bitch suckers!!!!!!:D

edit: Babnning hilde hurts the community, instead of helping it.
 
I don't think Hilde should be banned >_> Realyst came up with an idea a few months ago that everyone ignored.
http://www.8wayrun.com/f21/ban-hilde-t2286/page12.html#post56956
Could be a possible solution. We all know why everyone plays on pad with Hilde since the advantages are obvious.

or Limit how her doom combo works? In BD they nerfed it so it doesn't RO as far as it does now. So idk...Remove 44K or 1 of the C2BB's from the juggle then its cool? lol

Algol though...Fuck him. He shouldn't of been unbanned.
 
Eyce_Theon said:
Well Star Wars and Bonus characters haven't been mentioned since page one. I guess nobody has a problem with them anymore?
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Star Wars no. Bonus characters yes. They do not belong in this game and we won't lose anything if we ban them since there just clones of existing characters.

Characters like Scheherazade break the game. The reason I say that is because her hitbox is glitchy and is all around broken. There are moves that will hit her and then magically she will just escape within them. Or in other cases there are moves that should hit but just don't for no logical reason. That is ten times worse than complaints of an over powered character. Not being able to hit one is worse and if u do hit one she magically gets out is game breaking.
 
G-Sides said:
scrub sees hilde dooming players left and right and is discouraged from trying to better himself as a player because he's convinced that he can't beat hilde, so he opts out of trying to play soul calibur 4
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Though this reason has come up before, it's very subjective to who's watching and in what setting it happens in.

If someone saw this at a tourney that was all business, geared only towards getting the matches done and to switch to the next game, they might leave with such a bad impression. If it happened at a gathering with a good number of friendly players and casual matches going on, they might find friends in the game, and become more motivated to improve. From my experience in gathering new players on a college campus, people tend to see her uphill battle as a good challenge, no worse than certain characters in other games.

A few people have denied the offer to join in playing SC4 on campus; this was mostly because of their status as some 360 clan member, and their group plays nothing but Halo 3 and SF4 pretty much. They didn't want to put in the effort when they already had a group of friends playing a specific set of games, which I can understand.

EDIT@Something-Unique: I do think that the Bonus characters have no reason for being in the game, and I resent Shura and Scheherazade for having longer reach than their official counterparts, but from what little I've seen about them I don't think they can be considered game breaking.

I know their hitboxes are glitchy, but I haven't seen them magically escape combos like you just brought up. From what I have seen, their hitboxes are simply different (Kami-whatever can't use 44K in some situations with her shorter arm, her 33B tech traps in a different direction than NM, etc) but if they glitch as bad as you mentioned with escaping combos, my opinion of them would change to ban worthy, because then they would be more than just different.
 
More time and energy is being spent catering to new players instead of actually teaching them. If we just want their money and are trying to hide our bullshit, what kind of community have we become? I'm pretty embarrassed at some of the things I'm reading.

SU: If that's really the case w/her, then that's a totally different issue. Hitbox glitches, everybody can agree shouldn't be in the game.

Funny how the Street Fighter community didn't softban or hardban any char because they were too hard. I think it's going in the wrong direction entirely by hiding the so called "broken" chars, but what do I know right?
 
I agree with you Nori. I really think this is going in the wrong direction. People who are going to play this game for the long haul are going to play because they either really like the game, love the challenge, or both. The players that you're trying to "recruit" by banning Hilde and Algol are not the ones who are going to stay for long anyway. I think you're hurting the community more than helping it. If you are going to try for new players then try helping them learn how to fight against the tough opponents.

I play damn near every fighting game and most of them at a high level of play. It's just embarassing how the SC community acts as far as rules are concerned. In no other game that I've played has there ever been a ban of a character because I think that new players might not like them. What they do instead is they sometimes throw low tier tournaments in which characters that aren't at a certain rank in the tier list are banned and you all use secondaries or what not. In the end those tournaments are pretty fun, but they're usually side tournaments. I would have no problem going to a low tier tournamnet or a side "Hilde, Algol, Star Wars, and bonus characters are banned" tournament, but I refuse to be a part of a community that will ban a character for the wrong reason.

If banning Hilde and Algol seriously becomes the norm nationwide then you can count me out of this community.
 
nori idle asked me to tell you guys what he said

cause he didnt have time

i said that above

although my last post was my opinion

sorry bout that
 
Whodat said:
I agree with you Nori. I really think this is going in the wrong direction. People who are going to play this game for the long haul are going to play because they either really like the game, love the challenge, or both. The players that you're trying to "recruit" by banning Hilde and Algol are not the ones who are going to stay for long anyway. I think you're hurting the community more than helping it. If you are going to try for new players then try helping them learn how to fight against the tough opponents.

I play damn near every fighting game and most of them at a high level of play. It's just embarassing how the SC community acts as far as rules are concerned. In no other game that I've played has there ever been a ban of a character because I think that new players might not like them. What they do instead is they sometimes throw low tier tournaments in which characters that aren't at a certain rank in the tier list are banned and you all use secondaries or what not. In the end those tournaments are pretty fun, but they're usually side tournaments. I would have no problem going to a low tier tournamnet or a side "Hilde, Algol, Star Wars, and bonus characters are banned" tournament, but I refuse to be a part of a community that will ban a character for the wrong reason.

If banning Hilde and Algol seriously becomes the norm nationwide then you can count me out of this community.
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This man speaks the truth :)
 
Softbanning is one thing, but hardban again, entirely different. In Super Turbo, Old Sagat and Vega (Claw) were soft banned in Japan. What that means is, if you picked that char, you lost respect but you were still allowed to. Maybe we don't respect how Hilde operates, but completely banning her? This is not SC3 VC glitches we are talking about. Hilde's Doom Combo can be avoided.

What do we ban next after Hilde and Algol? What people aren't understanding is we are taking the wrong approach in getting new players. Instead of us being salesmen and hiding what's wrong w/the car, why not educate them on how to fix it?
 
Making effective points (well argued) and appealing to some lost sense of "gamer ideology" and manning up is all fine and good- but where are you guys making the videos and teaching the people how to deal with that?

I'm actually *doing* something by putting my balls on the line to make this experiment. What are YOU guys doing?

-Idle
 
IdleMind said:
Making effective points (well argued) and appealing to some lost sense of "gamer ideology" and manning up is all fine and good- but where are you guys making the videos and teaching the people how to deal with that?

I'm actually *doing* something by putting my balls on the line to make this experiment. What are YOU guys doing?

-Idle
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We just had a very positive conversation last week about this. I suggested now over 2 weeks ago having top players make videos on how to beat the top tier chars people seem to worry about a lot (Hilde/Algol/Voldo/Kilik/Amy). Either people ignored it, or it was forgotten. Nobody is saying you AREN'T doing something, so not sure where that came from. I think you know me to not be one of the people who doesn't back up what I say when I'm going to do something. KDZ also knows this about me too.

I'm just one person. I can only do so much, but banning Hilde/Algol is going the opposite direction and has nothing to do w/"lost sense of gamer ideology". In T5, w/Steve being nearly unbeatable, all they did is ban the infinite. Ban glitches, obvious things that aren't meant to be in the game. However, when you go to Hilde's command list, the LAST combo is the doom combo, so clearly, it was meant to be in the game.

Also, Algol was ALLOWED at Evo. People knew this months in advance and nobody decided to pick him up. If he's so super broken and so easy to just "spam bubbles", why was he not used a lot, or at all, when it was all said and done?

Gamers today are spoiled. Back in the TTT days, there was no youtube to look up vids and jack styles. High level play required maximum spacing and lots of movement. If you wanted to get better, you had to call somebody you just met at a tournament or *gasp* go into practice mode! Today, there are COUNTLESS tools and players to teach you and to help you get better. I'm 99% sure every top player on this site has asked another top player at least once, so if some stubborn vets can't do a simple thing as ask for help, and new people can't, I fail to see why I have to hold their hand and neuter a game I really enjoy being challenged at.
 
Nori's last paragraph is quite the truth. Also, it seems everyone forgot about the Anti-Hilde thread a long time ago. I went back to it a few minutes ago out of interest and was surprised to find that the most recent post is mine from 3 months ago, when I was just picking up Rock.

I teach people how to improve on a personal level, face to face, one of the reasons you don't see any videos or in-depth strategy topics made by me anywhere around. I may not be putting my "balls on the line" to hold tournaments where we ignore part of the game because people complain about it, but it's something.
 
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