Official Discussion for SC4 Tier List And Character Guides

Well after getting my ass kicked by different Xianghua technology I'm inclined to agree especially since I've played a fair number of D's throughout my SCIV time.....

But anyway I just wanted to drop in here and say "do I see elitism" from another mod. Oh how the truth comes out but it will probably be brushed under the rug cause people are so naive and its not one of the usual culprits.

Yet another case of the moral high horse not called out on cause its not S-U etc.

You can talk when you learn from your mistakes, and stop being a pompous asshole butting his nose into things that aren't his to worry about. Remember when you said you were gonna save the SC4 scene, but then did nothing but complain because people criticized your ideas; and instead of proving them wrong just cried and gave up?

I can admit my mistakes, publicly. Do you see edited posts? Do you suddenly see floods of deletion? Can you get the stick the out of your ass for just one goddamn second?

-Idle
 
You can talk when you learn from your mistakes.

I can admit mine, publicly. Can you?

-Idle

You miss the point that the difference between me and others is I'm more outspoken aka not ashamed nor trying to hide it. On the other hand others are just more quiet about in and often discuss it in their little cool clique's. You forget I was once part of those cool clique's to.

You said it and you meant it. The naive will just brush it under the rug. You can apologize for it but its still who u are. I just felt I needed to point out the hypocrisy.

P.S Be careful how u slip up. You have a reputation to uphold :)
 
You miss the point that the difference between me and others is I'm more outspoken aka not ashamed nor trying to hide it. On the other hand others are just more quiet about in and often discuss it in their little cool clique's. You forget I was once part of those cool clique's to.

You said it and you meant it. The naive will just brush it under the rug. You can apologize for it but its still who u are. I just felt I needed to point out the hypocrisy.

P.S Be careful how u slip up. You have a reputation to uphold :)

Guess I should hold you accountable for everything you've ever said, regardless of changing circumstances. Good to know your a stubborn indolent fool.

-Idle
 
E-penis tier list coming soon

I really don't get what makes sophie top....Maybe it's cause I have no problem playing really lame?
 
You have Cass rated 6-4 against X, having little exp in that matchup myself, I would ask why this is?

actually, i can see this. being a X main for the most part, i get my ass kicked by Cass all the time. what kills is her 236 step. supprisingly enough, that one little move can take out a X, good or otherwise, with great timing and massive ammounts of counter hits xD
 
I just want to say that i agree with the french match up list still to round about 90%. Apart from a few decisions, they did a good job imo.
 
E-penis tier list coming soon

I really don't get what makes sophie top....Maybe it's cause I have no problem playing really lame?
I'd say she's top mainly because of her TAS B. The move dominates mid-long range. It's delayable, and the delaying it will add range to the attack and cause Sophie to retrack. Stepping timed for a fast TAS B may get you hit by a delayed TAS B. It seems the second 236 realigns her. This makes stepping and attacking preemptively really dangerous. Even if you step G, and the dodge is successful, whiff punishing it on reaction is difficult, as the move has deceptively short recovery. Also, it's a mid, so there's no getting around it. That's quite the threat at long range. If you aren't convinced, try it yourself. At advantage, slow TAS B catches sidestep evades and backstep evades, as well as TC and TJ for being a mid. It also stuffs step-TC harder than anyone in the game. One move. Stops your reverse mixup, outside of attacking at disadvantage... which is really dangerous against Sophie. Why? TAS B, the fast version.

You could just sit back and block it, and get a free mixup, as it leaves her in your face at -10, but her throw whiff punish iFC1BAK (76) is very strong if she decides to duck, her GI game is scary strong (thanks to... again... TAS B), and if she blocks your strong mids, she may punish you unless you opt for safer stuff... so, depending on the character, the reward for blocking the move is very small. The blockstun is also short, which is annoying. AA after getting it blocked works more often than it should.

If you're waiting, and she comes in with 236236, it's possible for her to cancel out of TAS by hitting forward (or other directions... like an RCC) and throw you. She can't TAS B and TAS cancel in the timing window. Right after the window for hitting B ends, she can cancel out and do anything she wants: guard, 66K, throw, step, whatever. The animation for TAS B is only 14-15 frames from that point. Timed correctly, a mixup between a delayed TAS B and a TAS~throw is really ambiguous. To stop this, one could try and hit her on reaction to the TAS movement, but that leaves you open to heavy damage from a faster TAS B on CH.

The rest of her tools, I'm sure everyone is already aware of. Her whiff punishing is above average, and she can do a lot of damage while being safe. Her reverse mixup is doesn't cover all options as well as some, but just her GI game and her variety of tech crouch options push it to being above average. Spaced BBs are always free, 4B gets her inside whenever. Step catching is pretty good and safe, 66A blocked leaves you in a similar situation to TAS B. 3K... safe, tracking mid kick, with a hard-to-exploit weakness to one side. BB has to be 8WR'd, it seems, and I've already talked about TAS B's tracking.

Her only problem is that if you sit back and guard, the worst thing that can happen is you get grabbed. But her grabs aren't bad. And her CF game exists. Her stage control and ringout is below average... she does have an i15 RO move though.

Idk, the risk/reward always seems to be in her favor. She punishes mid-low mixup characters really hard and out-classes most characters if they try to beat her in other ways. She has no real bad matchups, only good ones. Only characters I see as better from a theory fighter standpoint is Setsuka, Amy, Hilde. Maybe Ivy and Voldo. Idk, I think they're overrated.
 
my 2 minute tier list:

S: hilde
A: ivy, amy, voldo, kilik, yoshimitsu
C: setsuka, algol, sophitia, xianghua, cervantes, mitsurugi
D: everybody else
LOL: talim, mina, tira, yunsung

i don't include SW characters because fuck them.

in other news:

the french are still better than us
but ramon is still the best sophie
ring is still wise
synraii is still uninformed
idlemind is still an asshole
static is still randomly liking posts
belial is still arrogant yet correct
partisan is still D: :/ Oo
SU is still clearly earning that 3.8
signia is still SCIENCE
lostprovidence is still inexplicably pumped up about something
bubbles is still almost right
canada is still nowhere near as awesome as america
hilde is still broken
yoda is still garbage
i still rock hard.

now can we please get along before this thread gets nuked?
 
I'd say she's top mainly because of her TAS B. The move dominates mid-long range. It's delayable, and the delaying it will add range to the attack and cause Sophie to retrack. Stepping timed for a fast TAS B may get you hit by a delayed TAS B. It seems the second 236 realigns her. This makes stepping and attacking preemptively really dangerous. Even if you step G, and the dodge is successful, whiff punishing it on reaction is difficult, as the move has deceptively short recovery. Also, it's a mid, so there's no getting around it. That's quite the threat at long range. If you aren't convinced, try it yourself. At advantage, slow TAS B catches sidestep evades and backstep evades, as well as TC and TJ for being a mid. It also stuffs step-TC harder than anyone in the game. One move. Stops your reverse mixup, outside of attacking at disadvantage... which is really dangerous against Sophie. Why? TAS B, the fast version.

You could just sit back and block it, and get a free mixup, as it leaves her in your face at -10, but her throw whiff punish iFC1BAK (76) is very strong if she decides to duck, her GI game is scary strong (thanks to... again... TAS B), and if she blocks your strong mids, she may punish you unless you opt for safer stuff... so, depending on the character, the reward for blocking the move is very small. The blockstun is also short, which is annoying. AA after getting it blocked works more often than it should.

If you're waiting, and she comes in with 236236, it's possible for her to cancel out of TAS by hitting forward (or other directions... like an RCC) and throw you. She can't TAS B and TAS cancel in the timing window. Right after the window for hitting B ends, she can cancel out and do anything she wants: guard, 66K, throw, step, whatever. The animation for TAS B is only 14-15 frames from that point. Timed correctly, a mixup between a delayed TAS B and a TAS~throw is really ambiguous. To stop this, one could try and hit her on reaction to the TAS movement, but that leaves you open to heavy damage from a faster TAS B on CH.

The rest of her tools, I'm sure everyone is already aware of. Her whiff punishing is above average, and she can do a lot of damage while being safe. Her reverse mixup is doesn't cover all options as well as some, but just her GI game and her variety of tech crouch options push it to being above average. Spaced BBs are always free, 4B gets her inside whenever. Step catching is pretty good and safe, 66A blocked leaves you in a similar situation to TAS B. 3K... safe, tracking mid kick, with a hard-to-exploit weakness to one side. BB has to be 8WR'd, it seems, and I've already talked about TAS B's tracking.

Her only problem is that if you sit back and guard, the worst thing that can happen is you get grabbed. But her grabs aren't bad. And her CF game exists. Her stage control and ringout is below average... she does have an i15 RO move though.

Idk, the risk/reward always seems to be in her favor. She punishes mid-low mixup characters really hard and out-classes most characters if they try to beat her in other ways. She has no real bad matchups, only good ones. Only characters I see as better from a theory fighter standpoint is Setsuka, Amy, Hilde. Maybe Ivy and Voldo. Idk, I think they're overrated.

what the...
 
I laughed a good one at bubbles is still almost right.

Sophi's not top 3, forget about it. She could be if you never play yomi calibur...but that's what this game ultimately is in my eyes. Staying in her face completely negates this TAS B mid range problem.
 
my 2 minute tier list:

S: hilde
A: ivy, amy, voldo, kilik, yoshimitsu
C: setsuka, algol, sophitia, xianghua, cervantes, mitsurugi
D: everybody else
LOL: talim, mina, tira, yunsung

i don't include SW characters because fuck them.

in other news:

the french are still better than us
but ramon is still the best sophie
ring is still wise
synraii is still uninformed
idlemind is still an asshole
static is still randomly liking posts
belial is still arrogant yet correct
partisan is still D: :/ Oo
SU is still clearly earning that 3.8
signia is still SCIENCE
lostprovidence is still inexplicably pumped up about something
bubbles is still almost right
canada is still nowhere near as awesome as america
hilde is still broken
yoda is still garbage
i still rock hard.

now can we please get along before this thread gets nuked?
Why am I uninformed for believing the Sophie X Siegfried to be practically impossible? Look at what she's got to counter Siegfrieds tools - she bests him at every range and by a significant margin.
 
I play Astaroth!
Troll.png
 
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