Official Discussion for SC4 Tier List And Character Guides

Can someone tell me why according to this matchup chart why Setsuka vs Cass is a 6:4 and Sophitia vs Siegfried is a 8:2? Those are the only two issues that I have with this matchup chart.
 
Malice said:
Can someone tell me why according to this matchup chart why Setsuka vs Cass is a 6:4 and Sophitia vs Siegfried is a 8:2? Those are the only two issues that I have with this matchup chart.
Click to expand...

Sophitia is one of Siegfried's hardest matchups because she's better at controlling spacing, preforms better at Siegfried's preferred range (mid), and can punish a stupid amount of things with TAS B. Defensively, there's not much Siegfried can do because TAS B will kill your stance at long range, and 2A will at close range, so SSH A+B is out of the question. Siegfried's weak step also is a problem since he can only cover distance by stepping forward - usually into an attack.

Signia explains more in depth here.
 
Let´s see...

Sophie is faster...
Sophie does more damage...
Sophie is much safer...
Sophie has better post Gi game...
Sophie can punish like no one else can...
Sophie has no range problem due to angel step...
Sophie has better CF game...

And Siggy...

Siggy has better throws...
Siggy has a better RO game(not by far imo)...
Siggy has some good mix ups out of stances...

So... thats it, i guess.
 
Malice said:
Can someone tell me why according to this matchup chart why Setsuka vs Cass is a 6:4 and Sophitia vs Siegfried is a 8:2? Those are the only two issues that I have with this matchup chart.
Click to expand...

What's your reasoning behind questioning the setsuka cass matchup? What do you think it should be and why?
 
thugish_pond said:
What's your reasoning behind questioning the setsuka cass matchup? What do you think it should be and why?
Click to expand...

It's a 5:5 to me. I don't see what Setsuka has that puts this matchup in her favor. I am also taking another look at this matchup chart and see that Sets vs Sophie is also a 6:4. Setsuka can't match Sophitia's damage output. If anything, that should be a 6:4 in Sophitia's favor.

As for Sophie Vs Siegfried, the matchup is ass, but it's not 8:2. 7:3 at the most.
 
Can someone link to me the French match up chart? The French and US are even when it comes to this game. We won in their home. They won in our home.
 
Its in page 9. I mostly agree with the french chart but I do believe Amy and Voldo should be above Sophie.
 
And this just match ups right. This ain't no tier list, correct? If so, I give them huge props for nailing Talim's match ups correctly. I knew the Talim bitching seem to be a bit much and we were too hard on our wind princess.
 
Malice said:
It's a 5:5 to me. I don't see what Setsuka has that puts this matchup in her favor. I am also taking another look at this matchup chart and see that Sets vs Sophie is also a 6:4. Setsuka can't match Sophitia's damage output. If anything, that should be a 6:4 in Sophitia's favor.

As for Sophie Vs Siegfried, the matchup is ass, but it's not 8:2. 7:3 at the most.
Click to expand...

Well, if you mean long range whiff punishment, then no. But she does have some areas where she does do more damage than sophitia.

setsuka hurts more when she steps you with her B+K series

setsukas throws hurt more

her launchers tend to do slightly more

not saying anything about the matchup, just pointing out that setsuka hurts too.
 
CrazyYoshimitsu said:
And this just match ups right. This ain't no tier list, correct? If so, I give them huge props for nailing Talim's match ups correctly. I knew the Talim bitching seem to be a bit much and we were too hard on our wind princess.
Click to expand...

The tier list is there. Just in a different "tab". Ill link it.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AmAA8v332bAodG10RVB4Z2drWjN3dWFqeFp1S3g5dEE&hl=en#gid=5

EDIT: Oh and looking at the match-up chart I also dont agree with Hilde vs Setsuka being 8/2 but hey what do I know :)
EDIT: Or Yoshi or Mitsu
 
For some of that info on the French list, I would love to see the physical proof. Some are just way to extreme even if just theoretical. Theoretically setsuka has really good tools, now where's the performance to back it up. And their opinion on Zas, as a Zas player seems completely focused around Omega...no., the character isn't that good.

It's all relative anyway.
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
Let´s see...

Sophie is faster...
Sophie does more damage...
Sophie is much safer...
Sophie has better post Gi game...
Sophie can punish like no one else can...
Sophie has no range problem due to angel step...
Sophie has better CF game...

And Siggy...

Siggy has better throws...
Siggy has a better RO game(not by far imo)...
Siggy has some good mix ups out of stances...

So... thats it, i guess.
Click to expand...
True, he's got good mixups out of stance, but the only situation you will get into stance without risking SERIOUS damage against Sophie is on wakeup, which denies him his throw game in oki - he may have good mixups but they just don't apply vs Sophie IMHO.
She is one of the few characters who can shut down WSB, she completely shuts down 22B, even at tip, with TAS B of all damn things ~_~
 
Edit - ignore me, I misunderstood what you said XD.
Btw, what's the general consensus on Kilik X Cassandra - I'll read the tier list at some point but I'd imagine 6:4 Kilik?
 
Synraii said:
True, he's got good mixups out of stance, but the only situation you will get into stance without risking SERIOUS damage against Sophie is on wakeup, which denies him his throw game in oki - he may have good mixups but they just don't apply vs Sophie IMHO.
She is one of the few characters who can shut down WSB, she completely shuts down 22B, even at tip, with TAS B of all damn things ~_~
Click to expand...

Yeah, against Sophie it is most certainly not in Siggy´s favor... Still i saw Panto win against very good Sophies, so it is still possible if you go all out.. But you still have to risk a lot.
 
i agree with setsuka vs cassy being 6:4.

i can't go into too much specifics, but when i do that matchup it feels to me like they are both striving to be in the same range, and that sets just simply has better tools all around. it is like cassy gets clean beat in her comfort zone and has to alter her game up to win, while sets can stay right where she wants to be.

as for siggy vs sophie being 8-2...LOL. no way. sure, sophie is better in the matchup because she can punish most of his good tools, but 8-2? 8-2 is like astaroth vs yoda. the matchup has to be EXTREMELY one sided for that to be the case. siggy can alter his game plan up and actually play safe and compete as a turtle/zoner. sophie is still better at it but it most definitely isn't 8-2.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back