SC5 'Ivy' Story/Possibilities/Speculation

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Eli123s said:
.......

...So we want SE stronger, if they make SW or WP weaker that perfectly fine.

You non-Ivy just keep wanting Ivy to be more unsafe, deal less damage, less pressure, nerf command throws, want her risk to be higher and reward to be lower. And all these explanation you guys give are very vague. Provide a valid reason as to what should be nerf and what effect it would have on game play. Then we can actually discuss something.
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Im actually starting to think you're just a gigantic idiot. Nobody came into this thread asking for nerfs blaba. You are just talking bullshit all the time with your arrogant behaviour. The discussion started cause i was criticizing your laughable "wishlist" which is 90% buffs to the arguably strongest character in the game, if not the strongest than most dominating for sure. As a respond you came with the typical Ivy-Arena behavior of accusing people to not know shit and talk. I remember reading this elitist behavior in several posts of you in the past, for a guy whos gameplan is to spam A+B Unblockable its quite amazing.

If you wish for balance and accept nerfs to SW, CL, WP, why dont you mention them besides some alibi-nerfs to the most obvious shit at all, naming WP 6B+K spam and BB SG Damage? Instead you write a list which is ment to be send to the producers of the game which is nothing more than a joke. All buffs buffs buffs. It actually reads like one of the scrub wishlists from other threads, whit the exception that you are considered good like it seems.

Maybe we should really go through the list point for point, cause you are just turning facts all the time.

Acting like if you are interested in balance and at the same time proposing a million buffs to the producer and balancing team, what a joke.

Only guy who is missing in this forum is Ivyfanboy now.
 
Btw for the people who dont get it at all, what pisses me off so much is not the wishlist as it self, but this, quote Eli:

"You non-Ivy users are so arrogant with your fallacies, not knowing anything and just trying to vent your frustration....people like you are indeed mind blowing sometimes."

I think this is 100% exclusive behavior to the Ivy arena. Acting like its something incredibly special to play Ivy. I thin Dark Slayer showed in Cannes that its actually not, lol.

I really dont want to disturb your forum anymore, as it seems SC5 Ivy will be different for sure, so its rather pointless.

But how you guys act is just crazy. I come in here criticizing a guy who wants a ridicolous throw game, and as an answer the unblockable spamming scrub plays the "You guys dont know shit" card.
 
I'm not gonna involve myself in this but I do agree that there is a certain "stigma" in the Ivy SA.

It probably has to do with the fact that everyone who plays this game hates fighting Ivy and those who play her have to hear all of the complaints (informed or not) about her and are sick of it.

I guess what makes this different from other strong/"easier" characters like Amy or Asta is Ivys "technical" reputation. She has a seemingly high learning curve, but once you know what you are doing she has the capacity to be be played extremely effective with little risk (in comparison to the rest of the cast).

So pretty much what we start to see is this:

Ivy player: Ivy is hard to play.
Other guy: No she's stupid and brainless.
Ivy player: Bullshit.
Other guy: Like Ivy.

;/

Like I mentioned earlier... I agree that she's a difficult character to learn (I started learning her recently), so I give props to Ivy players for sticking to their guns and mastering the character. Unfortunately once you get past the learning process she can be...excuse me for this..."cheap as fuck".

Edit: I lied and involved myself in this. Also this is all just my opinion.
 
Doc, you have my congratulations for creating the first drama in Ivy SA history! :P But let's leave the insults out of it, please. We had a good reputation among other SAs... we wouldn't want that to change.
 
Ring said:
Doc, you have my congratulations for creating the first drama in Ivy SA history! :P But let's leave the insults out of it, please. We had a good reputation among other SAs... we wouldn't want that to change.
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This is absolutely impossible. I KNOW you deleted several sites of drama involving Ivyfanboy, didnt you? :P :) Of course you can delete whatever you want, i dont care.

There isnt anything more to say from my site. Actually i enjoy playing against Ivy since i trained against her a lot, i like the challenge. So this isnt my point at all. I always said i respect her difficulty to master, but please dont tell me a character who has basically an answer to everything is hard to play. Low Tier characters are hard to play, Ivy is not. Nor is Setsuka nor is Kilik nor is amy^^

For Gods sake some people need to stop acting like learning Ivy requires huge skill and everyone who comes here trying to argue gets marked as a scrub from the elitist Ivy Gang. I try to make the point that buffing the SHIT out of her Command throw game would be way over the top and that scrub of Ivyplayer tells me to basically stfu since i dont know Ivy at all. If you want to keep a good reputation you guys need to stop your elitist attitude. Im not including you to this Ring but well you are a mod, so maybe its also your turn to try to avoid this. I dont think i tell people to stfu when they come to Cervantes/Setsuka arena just cause they havent mastered those characters. really pathetic.

Dark Slayer humiliated the whole Team international including people like Thugish Pond, Maxou, Furzy with a one week Ivy. I think thats prove enough.

Sorry for creating drama :)
 
So, the docvizzo-Fanboy is back. :)

Firstly you should know that I don't wanna bitch around.

Ring said:
1) Broken Destiny - Ivy was the most nerfed character of all. In addition to nerfing her damage (one of the lowest in the game) and moves that were OP in SCIV, they nerfed also moves that already were terrible, which is just ridiculous. I believe SC5 Ivy is most probably gonna be based on BD Ivy (I could already see resemblance, like WP 4A+B,B not being NC just like in BD) and that's not exactly a good thing.I think the wishlist is a good thing that could possibly prevent them from making another stupid decisions (I mean, nerfing anything they can just for the sake of nerfing)

2) No Soul Gauge in SC5

So basically, what we are looking at is SCV Ivy based on a MUCH weaker SCIV Ivy, w/o her biggest advantage (SG). I think we have the right to ask for "buffs" in this case :P
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1) So what changes to do you want us to discuss? SCBD --> SC5 or SC4 --> SC5? Because I have no idea of SCBD, never played it. And I wouldn't say that SC5 is gonna be based on SCBD, only because you saw in a demo fight that WP 4A+BB is no NH. ;)

2) At this point, I heavily disagree. In SC4 she is the character with the best spacing game, the biggest arsenal of moves (theoretically she has a move for ANY situation), huge NH and CH damage, the most damaging throws, good lows, useful unblockables, great RO game and moves with incredible evasive properties. PLUS she has (maybe after Voldo) the best CF-game. Now if you took out CF, how can you say she would be weak? Imo, she would still have been top tier in SC4, if namco had given her the worst CF game.

In fact my main "problem" was that the "wishlist" for one top tier character contains like 80% buffs and 20% nerfs.

Eli123s said:
.......

You just don't get it. We are not saying Ivy is weak. We all been saying she is strong and needs things to be toned down. But when we say SE is a weak stance suddenly were desperately trying to make Ivy look so bad?
It funny you accuse us of exaggerating, but yet your doing exactly it. Yes SE is unsafe, but that not really the problem, the problem is that SE is not a threatening tool, even if you character can not punish let say Ivy WP 3 SE 6K, the opponent can just sit there and hold guard and wait for an opening. So we want SE stronger, if they make SW or WP weaker that perfectly fine.

You non-Ivy just keep wanting Ivy to be more unsafe, deal less damage, less pressure, nerf command throws, want her risk to be higher and reward to be lower. And all these explanation you guys give are very vague. Provide a valid reason as to what should be nerf and what effect it would have on game play. Then we can actually discuss something.

Ivy player want Ivy to compete equally with other character, so where it become about the mind game and adaptation skills rather than character. Although Ivy will still be top, because let face it the rest of you are scrubs especially this doc fellow who ever he may be :)
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Before accusing me of not knowing Ivy very well you first should watch this video that I made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-DI4Eftzx4
Don't tell me I'm just throwing around baseless nerfs, because I don't know her. ;)

And were did I, as a non-Ivy, said any of the nerfs you mentioned? The only nerfs I proposed was to make the break window bigger and remove iCS, but at the same time I wanted the buffer window to be bigger and to have more acces on them. That's not fair?
And even if I proposed some "vague" nerfs, where do I find some rational explanations for your proposed buffs in the wishlist?
I don't wanna name all the things that could be discussed, my intention to post here was only because I think that the "wishlist" will probably create the strongest SC-character ever (if we say that every change will be put in SC5).

Cheers, Kalas

Btw, I think that Ivy players are a little bit spoiled. ;)
 
Damn, I was supposed to write shoutout about GCR2 and EBO, but just before to start I decided to look this thread that Ring told me about. And the whole day is gone now ah ah ah.
And I had to connect to answer to Doc's anger ah ah ah !

First off,
About the Link/Ring Ivy complaining. SC3 Ivy was weak, not because of her moves, but because of Xianghua moves.
SC4 Ivy is broke because of CriticalFinish. Then, which one is better mainly depends of everyone, I think.
Winning EVO with SC4 Ivy, I must admit this give me much more good memory, than all the loose to X in SC3...
To be really neutral, the best way to know is to look at mirror matchs in SC3 and mirror matchs in SC4. Then decide which one you prefer. Same can be done with SC2 and SC1.
Yet, I must admit that it's not fair and fun to win with her in SC4 except against other broken character : Hilde, Setsuka, Voldo, Sophi, Kilik and Ivy herself. Against other character, I don't feel happy when winning with her.

By the way, is there someone still on this forum who plays Ivy competitive in SC1 ??? What are you suppose to do with her ? She looks SOOOOOOO weak in this game compare to broken char, specially Yoshi and Cervy.

Second,
About the wishlist Ring, do not take care about Scud and me. Yo should finish it without us. As you know, we have other "way" to give our wish ah ah ! This wish list may be usefull for Namco to give Ivy player's a character that they wanna play. Of course, asking for C3A or SC1 iGDR may be not a good idea.

Finally,
Doc, "You non-Ivy users are so arrogant with your fallacies, not knowing anything and just trying to vent your frustration....people like you are indeed mind blowing sometimes."
Finally, you got it. At last. So, now that you know that you're a scrub, time to make a decision:
1. You play broken Ivy too, and become part of the ultimate players in the world.
2. Keep complain about how Ivy is broken without knowing anything.
What do you choose ? ah ah ah

All I have to say is don't worry for now. We know nothing about SC5 balance. Daishi said to Kayane that it is easiear to create a game unbalanced, but that namco will try to balance SC V. Yet, you must know that this may not gonna be a succes even if the game is balanced. Cause many people like when there are broken character and low tier character. Newcomer can have good results quickly with a broken char, and some other people may wanna have challenge to play with some bottom character. For all I know, Soul 5 should be balanced.

Doc, I'll do what I can to improve Ivy's balance. And I'll also try to give satisfaction to Ivy players.
I don't know for sure if I'll have any way to do so, but I'll try.

End note:
DC is usefull compare to tira super jump or raph prep. SE is steppable, but to counter step -> delay.
Also SE's step is very nice strangely... And SE A is not shackable on counter hit. Against someone who step and attack for example, delay A is a good option.
 
docvizzo said:
Im actually starting to think you're just a gigantic idiot. Nobody came into this thread asking for nerfs blaba. You are just talking bullshit all the time with your arrogant behaviour. The discussion started cause i was criticizing your laughable "wishlist" which is 90% buffs to the arguably strongest character in the game, if not the strongest than most dominating for sure. As a respond you came with the typical Ivy-Arena behavior of accusing people to not know shit and talk. I remember reading this elitist behavior in several posts of you in the past, for a guy whos gameplan is to spam A+B Unblockable its quite amazing.

If you wish for balance and accept nerfs to SW, CL, WP, why dont you mention them besides some alibi-nerfs to the most obvious shit at all, naming WP 6B+K spam and BB SG Damage? Instead you write a list which is ment to be send to the producers of the game which is nothing more than a joke. All buffs buffs buffs. It actually reads like one
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Don't worry doc I already think your an idiot, but very funny and emotional one.
I guess to each there own. I had a wish list, and you don't like it, that fine. I do want nerfs on things that make her very easy to use, and I want a buff and things that are not used. Yes A+B unblockable damage it way to high need to be toned down.

Why didn't I mention other nerfs for SW/CL/WP, well that didn't really occur at the time when I saw that thread. It was exciting then and I want to mention things I like to see changed. Of course if your pumped up for something your going to write all the positive things, before you write negatives. I wanted to write what was on my mind and the time, I figured I edit the post and add more stuff either buffs or nerfs. Your reading to much in to it. It a wish list, do you actually think if Namco read it that they take 100% of my post, of course not. I just want to give Ideas, and have them sort it out.

docvizzo said:
For Gods sake some people need to stop acting like learning Ivy requires huge skill and everyone who comes here trying to argue gets marked as a scrub from the elitist Ivy Gang. I try to make the point that buffing the SHIT out of her Command throw game would be way over the top and that scrub of Ivyplayer tells me to basically stfu since i dont know Ivy at all. If you want to keep a good reputation you guys need to stop your elitist attitude. Im not including you to this Ring but well you are a mod, so maybe its also your turn to try to avoid this. I dont think i tell people to stfu when they come to Cervantes/Setsuka arena just cause they havent mastered those characters. really pathetic.
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.....
I want her Command grab to more of a focused in her game play. Her normal more can be tone down to compensate. Well I don't think we even be aruing if you just simply argued the wishlist, but you show how try to paint Ivy user all with the same brush as being crazy elitist.

"...the Ivy arena indeed is mind blowing sometimes"

Maybe thats not what you meant I don't know, but that how it came across, that why I respond saying "You non-Ivy users are so arrogant with your fallacies.." I think it just miss communication at that point that lead us her.

Still the debate is fun, and interesting, even Malek posted. You can think or me as a scrub or arrogant or an arrogant scrub or whatever (lol at the Ivyfanboy). At the end of the day it is not you or me that make the decision to balance Ivy in SC5, it will be namco, the Wishlist thread is just meant to give Ideas that Namco can use. If this is such an issue to you then make your own wish list and post it in that thread the nerfs you would like to see.
I don't go in other SA thread demanding that this character should be nerf or buff, because that not my place to do so.

Kalas: I know you made that video and that you know your stuff, I guess my frustration wasn't directed at you per say but the general consensus and all the Ivy hate in the recent weeks.
 
Doc : you're putting up a valiant effort but you have to understand that the point of a wishlist in here is an exercise in imaginary negotiating. I'm only hoping that karma rears her head and rightly deals with the ridiculous "greed" in here come sc5.

I like seeing changes (not necessarily a nerf/buff) that'll make Ivy a character with multiple diversified playstyles as opposed to just degenerating her into a spacing, safe tracking SG-raping mid spamming machine. I find asking for buffs to make her spammable moves even more stupid-easy and things that reduce what little risk she had in the first place to be absolutely absurd and bad for the series. By stupid-easy I do not mean technical execution (which ivy users apparantly pride themselves on), but an absurd risk to reward ratio where you'd be stupid NOT to spam it.

Sure nobody likes thinking that their character will be nerfed, but it will be interesting to see how quickly ivy users will jump off the bandwagon as if it caught fire. Now there are dedicated ivy mainers, and this is evident in that between sc2-4, the ivy soul arena was always clear cut #1 in posts and threads, and I admire their dedication.
 
Still, I can't understand why you think that most Ivy players are tier whores as you stated many times before. I don't think you will ever see many Ivy users jumping off the bandwagon if she gets nerfed. Pretty much every Ivy player that achieved something in competitive play was maining her either from the very beginning of SC4 or way before (in the past games.)

docvizzo said:
This is absolutely impossible. I KNOW you deleted several sites of drama involving Ivyfanboy, didnt you? :P :) Of course you can delete whatever you want, i dont care.

There isnt anything more to say from my site. Actually i enjoy playing against Ivy since i trained against her a lot, i like the challenge. So this isnt my point at all. I always said i respect her difficulty to master, but please dont tell me a character who has basically an answer to everything is hard to play. Low Tier characters are hard to play, Ivy is not. Nor is Setsuka nor is Kilik nor is amy^^
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I see no reason to delete anything but I'd still prefer if you and Eli stopped calling yourselves "idtiot", "arrogant" etc, we never had something like this in Ivy SA, I wouldn't say it's exclusive to this arena! If things gets worse I will have to close this thread until you two cool down a bit ;]

Yes, what you said this is true. I always stated that myself, I will even quote my post from Jul 23th (Link disagreed on the part about most difficult to master in the game, but I explained what I meant exactly so you get the idea...)

Let's not confuse hard to play and hard to master. The hardest characters to play in this game are the weakest ones, because it takes a lot of effort with them to win. Ivy on the other hand is by far the most difficult character to master in the game because of her complexity.
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@Kalas
Kalas said:
1) So what changes to do you want us to discuss? SCBD --> SC5 or SC4 --> SC5? Because I have no idea of SCBD, never played it. And I wouldn't say that SC5 is gonna be based on SCBD, only because you saw in a demo fight that WP 4A+BB is no NH. ;)

2) At this point, I heavily disagree. In SC4 she is the character with the best spacing game, the biggest arsenal of moves (theoretically she has a move for ANY situation), huge NH and CH damage, the most damaging throws, good lows, useful unblockables, great RO game and moves with incredible evasive properties. PLUS she has (maybe after Voldo) the best CF-game. Now if you took out CF, how can you say she would be weak? Imo, she would still have been top tier in SC4, if namco had given her the worst CF game.
.
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I believe they will base the new game (move properties) mostly on the newest edition, which is BD. It's basically SC4 but fixed. In BD she doesn't have a lot of things that made her so good in SC4. Spacing nerfed, SG nerfed, UBs nerfed, damage nerfed, stance lock gone. Now if you take out CF I believe she won't be scary anymore.

She would still be good if they just used SCIV console Ivy w/o the CF but we all know that's not gonna happen. I think they will actually do everything to tone down her spacing in SCV. Look at the video, SW 3B doesn't have any pushback, same with old CL WS B but this doesn't even force crouch etc. This is definitely gonna be an interesting game :P

malek said:
First off,
About the Link/Ring Ivy complaining. SC3 Ivy was weak, not because of her moves, but because of Xianghua moves.
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I don't wanna start SC3 discussion but I think this is debatable. SC3 Ivy's main problem was the fact that she had no damage on NH. This was a big disadvantage not only in comparison to Xianghua but also other characters as well. X was her worst enemy, though. I never won any FT10 against Di in SC3 Ivy vs Xiang ...

malek said:
Second,
About the wishlist Ring, do not take care about Scud and me. Yo should finish it without us. As you know, we have other "way" to give our wish ah ah ! This wish list may be usefull for Namco to give Ivy player's a character that they wanna play. Of course, asking for C3A or SC1 iGDR may be not a good idea.
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Yeah I know, but the wishlist was created before EBO :) so I had no idea back then... I'd still appreciate if you could write something there when you get some free time. This is a community effort and let's at least make it look like we care. I already asked Scud but I got no reply
 
docvizzo said:
This is absolutely impossible. I KNOW you deleted several sites of drama involving Ivyfanboy, didnt you? :P :) Of course you can delete whatever you want, i dont care.

There isnt anything more to say from my site. Actually i enjoy playing against Ivy since i trained against her a lot, i like the challenge. So this isnt my point at all. I always said i respect her difficulty to master, but please dont tell me a character who has basically an answer to everything is hard to play. Low Tier characters are hard to play, Ivy is not. Nor is Setsuka nor is Kilik nor is amy^^

For Gods sake some people need to stop acting like learning Ivy requires huge skill and everyone who comes here trying to argue gets marked as a scrub from the elitist Ivy Gang. I try to make the point that buffing the SHIT out of her Command throw game would be way over the top and that scrub of Ivyplayer tells me to basically stfu since i dont know Ivy at all. If you want to keep a good reputation you guys need to stop your elitist attitude. Im not including you to this Ring but well you are a mod, so maybe its also your turn to try to avoid this. I dont think i tell people to stfu when they come to Cervantes/Setsuka arena just cause they havent mastered those characters. really pathetic.

Dark Slayer humiliated the whole Team international including people like Thugish Pond, Maxou, Furzy with a one week Ivy. I think thats prove enough.

Sorry for creating drama :)
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I thought I'd mention that Nori and Hajime beat thugish pond at DEV last year in team battles. thugish himself said that team battles dont mean anything because u only need to win 1 game against that person.
 
Wow, i´ve been watching this thread since 2 days and it seems that it isn´t geting any better.

To be honest, i can understand both sides. The people who hate Ivy ´cause there are so many tourneys won by her that it can´t be just a "coincidence", and the Ivy-players who just love Ivy and everything about her. And hell when you love a character in a fighting game that is very strong too so you can win tourneys then... Yeah, then it´s worth it i guess.

But you have to live with the "hate" towards your character and maybe you(which is totally wrong imo).

Maybe you can disrespect Ivy-players for using such a great character, but can you blame them if they liked Ivy for years and not because of the tier-list position in the first place but because of their "passion" for Ivy?

It´s the same with my Bro, he fights with Sophie and i almost hate that Character(especially in SCIII). Angel step shouldn´t even exist the way it exists since SCIII imo, and i had ugly discussions with him sometimes, but in the end, how can i blame him? He played with Sophie since SC(DC), he just stays with his character no matter what. Even if she was low... So if the same apllies here to the Ivy-players, then i would never! insult/disrespect you. Because the character you love just happended to be top tier... And if you stay with her in SCV even if she is low-tier(which i don´t belive at all^^) gives you kudos!

I just disrespect Top-tier bandwagon-jumper... I won´t name names here. I just can´t stand that mentallity. But it has been always a part of fighting games... i guess. >>

BTW. I was one of the poeple who "hated" SCIV Ivy, but after a long process of fighting against her on high level and thinking about her, i come to the conclusion that it´s not her tier-list position i dislike, but her LARGE! moveset i can´t even go through in a training session without a feeling of something that is just to big for me to counter just by learning anti-strats but by playing the character herself! Just think of a top-tier Maxi... It would be really similar imo. So if SCV Ivy is more like former Ivy-incarnations and i can understand! that character, even by NOT! playing with her, then i probably wouldn´t care about her tier-list position at all.

It´s just that SCIV Ivy has that huge ass command-list... And i play with the big guy(Asta), and feel so small in comparsion... No fun at all. :/
 
Well i guess everybody made his point now :)

SC5 Ivy looks so different its just pointless from now one. Actually i wanted to start a discussion about her Command Throw Game but since non-pro Ivy players are not allowed to judje anything this turned out into this, lol.

For the sake of keeping peace lets call it " miscommunication" :)

GG everybody.

@ Malek

When we watched the Video in my hotel room and you saw AA into CS for 50% Damage you were the only one laughing hysterically in a room full of silence. I dont know if i like your commitment :) It seems like a well executed EVIL plan... :)

:P
 
Ring said:
@Kalas

I believe they will base the new game (move properties) mostly on the newest edition, which is BD. It's basically SC4 but fixed. In BD she doesn't have a lot of things that made her so good in SC4. Spacing nerfed, SG nerfed, UBs nerfed, damage nerfed, stance lock gone. Now if you take out CF I believe she won't be scary anymore.

She would still be good if they just used SCIV console Ivy w/o the CF but we all know that's not gonna happen. I think they will actually do everything to tone down her spacing in SCV. Look at the video, SW 3B doesn't have any pushback, same with old CL WS B but this doesn't even force crouch etc. This is definitely gonna be an interesting game :P
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Hmm... I'm still not quite sure if they really base SC5 on SCBD. I mean, has Namco based SC4 Ivy on SC3:AE? Additionally, Ivy is the character that has changed most. She always feels like a completely new character. I think the new Ivy's gonna be a new surprise again.
So if you (not you, Ring, but all Ivy players who posted in the wishlist) want something new, something "fresh" and have some new ideas for the SC5-Ivy, I'm ok with that. But you have to admit that, to a certain extent, some changes are not quite justified with regard to how she is in SC4.

The problem that I see with Ivy, especially with SC4, is that because of her drastic changes from every SC to the next one, some glitches find their way into her gameplay. And that was extremely problematic in SC4. It all began with her WS B infinite. And then there are her SW a+b[A+B] unblockable, CL 9[g]B, WP 9[g]B, SE B+K6 and her countless stancelook possibilites (SW 2A+K, CL 1BB+k, WP 6B+K, CL A+B A+K WP 1B+K 3B+K,...). Imo, none of these were intended. Ivy players call it "special features" or "easter eggs", but to me it's nothing but a bug. If all those things had not occured, Ivy would still have been a very good character. It's just so many advantages coming together in one character.

And I don't know who it was, I'm too lazy to look for this statement in the last pages, but someone said that every move in her movelist should have a use and not only exist. Again, I think that here we see that Ivy players indeed are a little spoiled. :P
Can you name a SC-character who had only useful moves? Imo, it's completely unrealistic to ask for this. And let's be honest: I think Ivy players should be the last players complaining about too many useless moves. At least you have a lot of moves. :P

And don't get me wrong, nothing I wrote is directed against the Ivy players personally. I go with JAG here, even if you hate a character, then hate the character, but not the player. I played Xianghua in SC3, too, and I know by experience how it feels to be always reminded of how broken your character is if you win a fight.
 
docvizzo said:
You have some really nice one-liners. Keep doing them.
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why do i need to post a wall of text just to state a simple fact? sorry if you feel like i'm trolling but i dont see why AA into CS doing half health is so jaw-dropping when it's been like that for years upon years. seems like people are hyper sensitive because of how good Ivy was in SC4
 
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