Siegfried SCV Non-Gameplay Related Discussion

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Maybe so - but one thing Sieg has always been lacking in SCIV is a reason to make the opponent want to crouch vs. SCH in pretty much any situation - if he could do a low damage throw even just from that stance, maybe a positioning thing then it would enhance a frankly meh stance.
In fact - brainwave, how about if it was like Steve's B+3 1+2 in Tekken, which allows you to move the opponent without damaging them if unbroken, but able to wallsplat into a combo. If nothing else it would enhance his wall and space control game.
 
You are completely not thinking about the purposing aspect of what SCH is there for. SCH isnt there as a scare tactic- there is a reason SCH only comes after moves which launch or stun. SCH is a combo filler stance, with one moderate stepkill option. You want to give a throw to that? Why?

Think about the message that sends- you did a combo starting move, now your in stance and you still can force a mixup vs freezeup. Sounds like bad design to me.
 
Umm... it doesn't - a+k[A] which is really underrated imho. SCH is in need of a good low because in situations such as after 22(B) you may have switched to SCH as an evade tactic - if I guessed right and evaded, I want either some free damage as a reward or a reasnable mixup, but seeing as a good low is out of the question, a throw would be nice instead...
 
Synraii said:
Umm... it doesn't - a+k[A] which is really underrated imho. SCH is in need of a good low because in situations such as after 22(B) you may have switched to SCH as an evade tactic - if I guessed right and evaded, I want either some free damage as a reward, but seeing as a good low is out of the question, a throw would be nice instead...
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I'm just going to save myself alot of headache and say "I disagree with the entire premise you guys are coming from, and question your ability to interpret design over your own personal wishes".

aaaaaand I'm out of this thread.
 
Throws for all stances sounds nice on paper - but it really opens up a lot of unnecessary design complications. If you want throws out of stance to be a viable option, you need reliable lead-in moves for the mix-up, which consequently necessitates good block frames, as almost all of Siegs moves with SCH transition knock down on normal hit. This, however, would make the move in question too good in my opinion. Then there's stances where adding throws just doesn't make much sense to begin with. Say, SSH, why would you want a throw option after a stance transition with a retreat step, which already has a low to begin with? SBH also has a low, so does SRSH. If we're talking about mix-ups based on fake momentum, I don't see how we need actual throws out of stance over stance cancel~throws.
 
Jink said:
RANGE
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This isn't quite what you said, but the spacing you're at really helps determine what moves they will possibly do.

Knowing inputs is important too like you say, but keep in mind it's possible to use any move at any time if your execution is good enough. I talked about how to use any move at any time in this old thread: http://8wayrun.com/threads/advanced-techniques.4885/ in the "accessing your move list" section. You can essentially avoid being forced into doing any attack if you tap G very quickly before doing your attack. For 8WR moves that are in different directions than your movement it's even faster to go to that direction without returning to neutral and then hitting the button. Also, if you move in single taps, you avoid most of these problems, as you can do any neutral move at any time except moves that are in the direction of your movement (you have to tap G first).

All this is much easier on an arcade stick where you always have a finger hovering over G and it's way easier to execute stuff like approaching 44 8WR moves (6, 63214X)

For players that can't/don't do this (practically everyone, even high level players), yes, looking at their 8WR directions really helps determine what they will do next.

Another thing: When they're crouching they have access to WR moves but can't do 1_2_3_5 moves unless they are good at RCCing... then they can do everything. When they're standing, they have to do iWR to do WR moves, which adds a minimum of 5 frames to execution time (but iFC moves only add a minimum of 1 frame)
 
IdleMind said:
SCH isnt there as a scare tactic- there is a reason SCH only comes after moves which launch or stun. SCH is a combo filler stance, with one moderate stepkill option. You want to give a throw to that? Why?
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If not throws, then what about a low? Specifically, NBS 2A*bA from Soulcalibur II. Everyone seems to agree that SC2 Nightmare was probably one of the best incarnations of Siegfried's moveset, yourself included. I would think SCH 2A*bA would be more balanced than adding throws, then, since essentially all it does is kill step with a low, which with SCV's lack of Step - G isn't really that necessary.

Also, I like to assume that all of us know full well that we'd end up making a terrible, unplayable game if we got to do whatever we wanted to the game, and that Namco takes all of these suggestions with a grain of salt. At lieast, I'd like to assume that's true.
 
I would suggest NAMCO to make an SC2 online (for download) on PS3 & 360, including the original console version & a new "rearranged" version with no bugs/glitches & tuned frames for balance, character/weapon coloring features, Arcade's Conquest mode, & all other features from console, with all three guest character & if not possible, fuck'em n_n

But that's just me I guess..

Hey, CAPCOM did it with SF2 & 3S. Why wouldn't NAMCO do it? Its more money for them anyway.

Oh, also with same 3d models but in HD with 60fps refresh-rate like in MW2, plus motion blur!
 
Synraii said:
Umm... it doesn't - a+k[A] which is really underrated imho. SCH is in need of a good low because in situations such as after 22(B) you may have switched to SCH as an evade tactic - if I guessed right and evaded, I want either some free damage as a reward or a reasnable mixup, but seeing as a good low is out of the question, a throw would be nice instead...
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If you evaded take your free damage

Mixup? Your mixup from SCH beat people who freeze up is your transition to RSH or SSH :)

In SCV Sieg has harder to read lows and mids from all of his stances, his mixup game is already pretty strong.

SSH B is much harder to see now that there's no purple flash (normally you can duck and watch for the mid and be safe) and SBH A no longer telegraphs itself with a jump.
 
The only thing I would like to be in SCV is various attacks running while on SCH; SC2's Nightmare/Siegfried have this singular feature; while most players didn't use this a lot, I end doing more than I wanted cause I'm a real in-fighter and I think is good to put some pressure; watching a warrior running to you while having his sword ready to attack is really scary...
 
Synraii said:
If I evaded against Amy or X?Free damage? Sure Signia, sure...
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yeah?

SCH KK not fast enough?

Idk what you're expecting, but if you can't whiff punish a move with either SCH A, SCH B, or SCH KK, then that move is already very "whiff-safe" and difficult to whiff punish for any character.

Just curious, which moves are you talking about? Talking about evading against characters is rather unspecific
 
Fair enough - say I'm fighting an Amy player - I've been using 22(B) and AGI'ing her 3A with B+K ~ SBH the past two times:
This time, Amy goes for 66:B which I evade with SCH transition - giving me nothing, whilst still being at risk of eating one of her launchers (66A+B 33B mixup being appropriate examples.) Considering I put myself at serious risk, I expect some sort of reward and considering how in these situations Amy can be a complete bitch, a simple good mixup would suffice. Either a low poke option or a throw, but something I could preferably mix in with SCH B to feasibly score a KND. Stances remove ones ability to block, so I firmly belive that this should be compensated for with powerful counter offensive tools when called upon, is this unreasonable considering Mitsu's RLC game?
I think not...
 
Feel free to talk about anything off-topic Siegfried related here. Stuff like how manly he is, or SCV speculation, or Stuff pertaining to his personality or story, is all welcomed here. Anything off topic in other threads will also be moved here.
 
Who's actually kind of thrilled to find out if he's the dad of Hilde's children ?

Yeah, just felt like writing that, cause well, since the story seems to pretty much revolve around Pyrrha and Patroklos, that's probably the only "mystery" left to solve in SC V about our knight in shining armor.

Or he could get into a rampage, and kill the whole Alexandra family. Yeah, right, that sounds cool.
 
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