Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

darkfender said:
i cannot post matches because i play on x360 >.>
and if you read you'll reply are not that friendly....i mean sayin mostly "you are doing it wrong" doesn t help...

I ponted lot of exploitable weakneses of raph and all i got were answers like use 22B more......(cool never thougt to try that .-.).

So i asked if somene was from eu so i could SHOW him my points in order to have him confirm or deny the facts considering i am not doing well with words.
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No excuses, i'm Xbox too but i have put up vids before. Just use a camera :) if you really want to show me....because i really want to see what you mean.
The problems you described in my eyes seem to universal and not specific to Raph. In other words, if you play any other character...how do you address a similar situation?!
 
WuHT said:
jeez you're really trying to fish hard for a compliment/pity points!

In the name of raph solidarity, I'll say to you :

"Its ok. Winning isn't everything!"
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Winning is all that matters! Winning!

And I'd have serious questions about anyone who tried to compliment those matches.

Also the 360 problem only applies to online matches. These elite European players have vids of their matches posted online because they go show up to tournaments. Let me guess, too far to travel, no time, etc etc? Don't care. Show up and compete and give us the goods, or just stop name dropping Europe like they're some ultimate Raph killers. Because online isn't what we're basing this shit on.
 
WuHT said:
We need to be consistent with terminology. Any setup that involves a minor disadvantage on block into CE with invinicibility frames is not a "frame trap". Since SC4, 66A+B has always been strong on block. Not that the range where you push them back is very difficult for raph to stop thier QS (2nd hit of AA may even whiff).
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I thought that was a prototypical Frame Trap -_-. So, would you plz be so kind to teach me what it is? Is it strickly about even frames or positive frames on block (without a Guard Break)? Or something else?

I love 6Bb(BE) after SE A ^^
 
Yes, it must have positive frame advantage on block.
SE B (Block) > CE, or SE B (block) > 6B, are Frame traps.
They will never have enough frames, to break your start-up.

If you do 2K (Hit) > CE, it will have good chance to works and you will be able to say "It was Mind Game", but if it's blocked or you are interrupted, we will call it a "Piff". That's another form of trap, but it's not a true frame trap.
 
been trying raph and so far he's very fun and has that 'troll factor' that really ticks off my friend (like maxi lol). my question is when reading raph's frame data for his prep moves, do on hit and on block numbers take into account his prep step animation frames? Ex. prep B[ B ] is i12 and -2 on block so after a blocked prep B[ B ], another prep B[ B ] will trade with an i10?
also, a non-strategy question; I've been maining maxi since 3 and this is the best version of maxi of I've known, how do you feel about raph compared to his past appearance?
 
minimaxi said:
been trying raph and so far he's very fun and has that 'troll factor' that really ticks off my friend (like maxi lol). my question is when reading raph's frame data for his prep moves, do on hit and on block numbers take into account his prep step animation frames? Ex. prep B[ B ] is i12 and -2 on block so after a blocked prep B[ B ], another prep B[ B ] will trade with an i10?
also, a non-strategy question; I've been maining maxi since 3 and this is the best version of maxi of I've known, how do you feel about raph compared to his past appearance?
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Yeah frame transitions apply the same way to his Prep moves as do any other move.

I personally think this is the strongest version of Raph yet, but due to other characters getting more/less he's pretty much still in mid-tier as far as this game is concerned.
 
Hudathan said:
Yeah frame transitions apply the same way to his Prep moves as do any other move.

I personally think this is the strongest version of Raph yet, but due to other characters getting more/less he's pretty much still in mid-tier as far as this game is concerned.
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If only he had the ability to sidestep in preparation..... UUGHH
 
HiguraShiki said:
If only he had the ability to sidestep in preparation..... UUGHH
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Off a VE side step in SC4 raph could get maybe 40 damage if you got the JF for comparisons sake. If you have meter, prep4 can aGI for almost 70 damage guaranteed (no alignment issues with a successful aGI) with prepK(BE) to followup. Its more consistent than side-step (which may fail against 2 hit mid strings). I'm not saying a sidestep from prep wouldn't be useful, but he does have prep4 which you shouldn't write off as chopped liver or something.
 
not that prep4 can be used consitently as aGI.
It works best as spacing tool.

P.S. obviously I think this raph is way worse than scIV but being the game rather new raph benefit from people inexperience.....
And its not the only...
Having 6BB BE consistently JG
Having lot of moves easily JG (expecially i14 in lot of situation when u need to attack).
Suffering lot from TC in a game when a TC punishers can take away more than half your health bar....and this is particularly bad for raph considering he lacks fast mid damage.....
He charges opponent bar like a mad....try facing a leixia spammng wrB...when she can wrBE 12 times a match i think its hard for raph to win even if you are good.
Plus usual tracking nerfs with the bonus of range nerfs that made his long range punishing game way worse.
 
FC3B is good to punish things like most of the lows from Sieg's stances, but you have to be careful with it since you can be punished by some chars like Pyrrah and then you'll cry.

I never use wrK, shorter range than wrA or B, no spacing after it, seems to have no real advantage on hit.

IMO wrB is the best option when you're not sure that FC3B will work
 
DraguDie said:
FC3B is good to punish things like most of the lows from Sieg's stances, but you have to be careful with it since you can be punished by some chars like Pyrrah and then you'll cry.

I never use wrK, shorter range than wrA or B, no spacing after it, seems to have no real advantage on hit.

IMO wrB is the best option when you're not sure that FC3B will work
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fc3B is antiraph mirror awesome tool...
wrB is awesome and so is wrA
i never used wrk that much :O its one of those few moves that you forget of....i should test it
after 2a on hit i often go for throws
 
I whore iFC 3B the same way I did in SC4 with WS B. The range is just soo good. I use a LOT of mids with raph, because most sensible players use a TC heavy game vs him. Honestly I think if TC is owning you then you're being rather predictable. Also I don't think he's easy to step, unless you're at range throwing out random 3B's and 6Bs hoping to land them.
 
Hudathan said:
Yeah frame transitions apply the same way to his Prep moves as do any other move.

I personally think this is the strongest version of Raph yet, but due to other characters getting more/less he's pretty much still in mid-tier as far as this game is concerned.
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I agree. I think he is more powerful, now. Specially because of SE being a straight SE Beta e because the K from it is a powerful low.

The nerfing is pretty much a constant in the evolution of the series. When they nerf something, it's usually because they are trying to add balance. If you think Raph was very nerfed from SC4, take a look at Cervantes and Hilde.

And my 2 cents go for Raph being mid-high tier, 2nd best tier in a 5 tier scale. Is there any respectable tier list, yet?
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Have you guys payed any thought to which stages tend to work better for Raph? My favorite is Natsu's. Second favorite is Asta's.

My main criteria is: no low walls. Though Raph can perform over wall ROs, it's very difficult (66A+B); while other characters can perform them with ease (Night can Flap Jack or 66B).

And I also like to have wall and RO options, which means Viola/Raph's stage is also cool.

And I don't spam these stages, btw. I just tend to pick some of them first, but I do prioritize variety over this small tactical advantage.
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Personaly (which in this case means: don't give this much thought), I think wrK is fine. Faster, however with a shorter range. I get the impression they track equally well.

And, btw, 6AB is a good short range option when you're crouching (instead of a wr move). It is faster than wrK. Seems to be the best punishment for some attacks that force you to crouch or are simply lows, like Mitsu 1A. It's weak spot is hard to capitalize on, which is a good thing. The weak spot is that the guy can duck the second hit, if he blocks the first.
 
the range on 6A is ridiculously terrible. Its tracking on the left is 2nd to none though.
 
lol so i have to read...
knowtow can read opponent mind so he knows when opponent decide to wrBE instead of blocking at disadvantage....considering it evades 99% raph moveset....unfortunately i lack those ESP

hotnikketz: "you are playing predictable" how could i doubt it @_@

solid altair: raph is mid-high ..cervantes should complain....why not alpha patroklos also? i heard also nightmare players complaining a lot lately....mitsu would also need more damage...


It seems that raph isn t doing good lately in competitions and i bet he will do constantly worse.....
If i will be wrong you can tell me "you are using him wrong" as much as you want....
But if i am right will you once admt raph has serious weaknesses we need to be aware of instead of considering opponents lacks of knowledge as raphael strength?
 
Raph is seriously weak outside of 22B - 22B is great, and should be feared, but once you get around that, out of Raph's optimal range (close, or far), he doesn't have the sustained damage to make you fear throwing out whatever you want against him. 6BB is not threatening as a punisher, and most of the cast have easy options to beat you out of prep as soon as they catch on.

That said, Raph can still do OK in tournaments. I was 6-2 at final round and was pretty close to making it out of my bracket, but it really requires the Raph player to outplay the opponent in every conceivable way. It gets pretty frustrating in a lot of ways, but the wins are so exciting.
 
another weakness i found...
I lately was experiencing spacing with prep4/SE....to avoid punishers..
I didn t take in account a simple option: the uber scV backstep et voilà you whiff with any option, whereas if you keep in range you get punished :|

I think SE doesn t exist in most matchups.
Only option is BBB CHC or BB NC

Raph range nerfs are huge and impact his game a lot.


Funny to see so many people are still scared of 44AB prep rofl......they never try to react it...if they only knew.....

Also 33KB is really good again....worse than 4 but still very usable and deals better with super TJ
 
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