Tier Discussion
- Thread starter Bullseyeboy277
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Maxou
[11] Champion
mid+ actually. With Pyrrha, Asta, Patroklos, and co.
Please do ;) You can go to training mode to test. I am not Pantocrator, Captain Russia will fail against me !
JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
Voldo Mid+... OK, seems correct to me.
Nightblade
is SUPERCHARGED!!
Давай!!
AZYG4LYFE
Play FFRK
Hmmm...I might have missed this at some point, but would it be possible to get some opinions of tier lists in terms of, RO game, combos, wall pressure, fast punishment, oki, throws (looks at asta)...something like top 10 characters for each categories, something that can give new people an idea of who to pick up and main, in certain aspects of the game. People giving adjusted lists of general tiers is ok but it's boring...
AZ
AZ
PigBenis
[08] Mercenary
Good punishing game for Voldo ?
Please, tell us what are the punish tools of Voldo, because I see nothing. I can see 666B, but it's i17 and can punish only very unsafe move, that's just soooo bad when we compare with godmoves like DNS B (i14) of pyrrha/omega/patroklos, aB of Cerv, 6A+B of Maxi...
Actually, I think that a fast punishment tool is the ONLY thing that lacks in the Voldo MU, so please, tell us what is so strong to punish with him.
Maxou
[11] Champion
PigBenis
[08] Mercenary
I think you realize that all this is just crappy comparing with other characters.
If we take 6B BE, it deals only 36 damages (with BE).
Without BE, here the move of some other characters (not the best) :
-Leixia + Natsu : AAB - 48 dmg (i11 for Leixia, i10 for Natsu -> faster, hit stronger and WITHOUT BE).
-Raphael : 6BBB - 38 dmg or i12 (faster, stronger and WITHOUT BE).
-Xiba : 3AB - 38 dmg for i14
-Ivy : 6B8K - 40 dmg for i12
-Cervantes : aB - 40 dmg for i11
-Algol : 6KK - 40dmg or i14
Dont' want to talk about pyrrha, omega and alpha, we all know that their punishment tool are a LOT better.
Let's face it, even character like Raph or Xiba have better than Voldo WITHOUT BE, how can you say that one advantage of Voldo is punishment ? That's its big con hilighted in the guide, please, say all what you want about Voldo, but you cannot say such bullshit.
And please, if you consider a i19 CE as a punishment tool, wow, all the world have great punishment tools.
Voldo is one of the worst punisher in the game, maybe there is something I miss, but that what frame data say.
If we take 6B BE, it deals only 36 damages (with BE).
Without BE, here the move of some other characters (not the best) :
-Leixia + Natsu : AAB - 48 dmg (i11 for Leixia, i10 for Natsu -> faster, hit stronger and WITHOUT BE).
-Raphael : 6BBB - 38 dmg or i12 (faster, stronger and WITHOUT BE).
-Xiba : 3AB - 38 dmg for i14
-Ivy : 6B8K - 40 dmg for i12
-Cervantes : aB - 40 dmg for i11
-Algol : 6KK - 40dmg or i14
Dont' want to talk about pyrrha, omega and alpha, we all know that their punishment tool are a LOT better.
Let's face it, even character like Raph or Xiba have better than Voldo WITHOUT BE, how can you say that one advantage of Voldo is punishment ? That's its big con hilighted in the guide, please, say all what you want about Voldo, but you cannot say such bullshit.
And please, if you consider a i19 CE as a punishment tool, wow, all the world have great punishment tools.
Voldo is one of the worst punisher in the game, maybe there is something I miss, but that what frame data say.
Maxou
[11] Champion
Erm.. please.
With Alpha Patroklos if we take 44B+K BE it deals only 28 dmg. Insane !
Well if you add combo you can have 80+dmg but well...
Same thing with 6B BE with Voldo... Combos with BS 2K > 50 dmg + wake up game, tech trap all side 2K for 54 dmg + wake up game afterwards (more damaging stuff can be done but with tech trap instead of combos).
Leixa : AAB is not NC
Raphael : 6BBB is not NC
Cervantes : aB is -4 hit
Xiba : 3AB is not NC
And you finally got it right with Algol. Nice work man !
Ha ha ha.
Well... seriously, Voldo's punishing game is NOT the strongest in the game, but it is strong regardless.
PigBenis
[08] Mercenary
Ok for non-NC, I am a dumb here, but I prefer such tools to punish (because a string, even non-NC, is a threat that allow free mix-up), considering speed and the fact that it doesn't heat meter.
BE consumption + High (cannot punish some low, I think) + range + i14 (there is better)... I think that's not a good punishment tool, that's just the strongest in Voldo MU, but not something strong regardless.
A 66B with i14 and 666B with i15, and Voldo would be a good punisher.
BE consumption + High (cannot punish some low, I think) + range + i14 (there is better)... I think that's not a good punishment tool, that's just the strongest in Voldo MU, but not something strong regardless.
A 66B with i14 and 666B with i15, and Voldo would be a good punisher.
Sacharja
[12] Conqueror
Please tell me more about all the moves youre going to punish with Algols 6KK.
MntT77
[10] Knight
You should absolutely never use non-NC strings as punishment. Mind you, Natsu's A:6 is theoretically a godly punishment tool if you can actually get it down consistently. The problem is that it's very hard to do, and if you screw up and just get the regular A6, it's i16 instead, and -14 on block, so if you're facing against a Pyrrha or such other, that's not so good.
Separate tier lists for RO game, punishment etc. could be interesting. Punishment, at least, should be relatively easy to ascertain - we all know Pyrrha, Omega Pyrrha, Alpha Patroklos, Natsu etc. would be at the top end...
Separate tier lists for RO game, punishment etc. could be interesting. Punishment, at least, should be relatively easy to ascertain - we all know Pyrrha, Omega Pyrrha, Alpha Patroklos, Natsu etc. would be at the top end...
Maxou
[11] Champion
Regardless, it is a strong punishing tool. Who cares about BE consumption.
Even if it's high and won't punish low moves, 66B BE will, because most of the lows that ends up TC are -16 or more.
The possibility to limit your opponent command list in itself is very good. This is what punishing is about.
kAb
[12] Conqueror
natsu A:6 punish is amazing.
punishing a -10 move with A:6 is an incredible feeling. moves like NM 3K, voldo 66B, leixia 66K, sieg 66K. that are normally low risk all of a sudden become a burden.
punishing a -10 move with A:6 is an incredible feeling. moves like NM 3K, voldo 66B, leixia 66K, sieg 66K. that are normally low risk all of a sudden become a burden.
MntT77
[10] Knight
Well funnily enough you have only have so much meter to use, so yes, the fact that BE consumption is involved IS a big deal. It means you can't use BE at all until late in the first round at the earliest, and you're unlikely to have built up significant meter until halfway through the second... You're overstating the amount of meter you have available to you...
Let's compare to someone who isn't quite as good at punishing as the Pyrrhas - at -14, Leixia can 6KK. It has about the same range as Pyrrha 236B, and does about 34 damage + an assload of frame advantage on hit, WITHOUT needing any meter. It's slightly worse post-patch since now it leaves opponents standing rather than crouching, but it's still a pretty solid tool, and grants only slightly less reward than 6B BE, for NO meter.
I know, right? Too bad I can hardly ever do it properly. :(
acefrost
[12] Conqueror
Just wondering, I can only ever punish i16 ( 50/50) with DNSB, is it even possible to do it in i15?
PigBenis
[08] Mercenary
Is this serious ?
Ok, Patroklos CE with i13 and something like 90 dmg is a god-punisher. Oh and Raph CE i12, Leixia CE i12, Aeon CE i13, Tira CE i13, Maxi CE i14, omega i13...
CE use meter and is not a solution to punish a move all the time ? Oh but wait, "Who cares ?" huh ?
Maxou
[11] Champion
I prefer punish a move regularly with 1 BE than once for 1 CE.
But well, your loss then. This move is great.
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