Attention Cervantes players

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until i can spam iTP X1000000000 after every round, i refuse to ever believe that he is better than mid tier.
 
Lol.

So for somebody who's not so much into Cervantes stuff (like myself) this story appears like:

1. Cervantes is top tier (not broken, but top tier) and one of the best characters in the game.
2. Discussing what could be done with MODERATE nerfs to some apparently over-the-top-tools.
3. No don't nerf! He's actually only midtier!

WTF is going on here?

This reminds of the Ivy SA in SC4 where people lynched you if you dared to call Ivy "top tier" or suggested a nerf.
 
Kalas said:
Lol.
So for somebody who's not so much into Cervantes stuff (like myself) this story appears like:
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Cervantes: Mid to high tier, maybe a B
He doesn't need any nerf as long as he doesn't get any buff.
IT'S JUST MY OPINION, I DON'T MAIN CERVANTES so i don't really care if the character get nerfed like raphael, I only don't want him to be a second Mitsurugi.
 
Kalas said:
This reminds of the Ivy SA in SC4 where people lynched you if you dared to call Ivy "top tier" or suggested a nerf.
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Don't be hating on Ivy. She was always meant to be top, and put you scrubs in your place (which she did, lol). And now you'll have to live with those scars for the rest of your life, HAHAHAHAH.

But you know now that I think about it maybe it was Ivy that caused all these Cerys to go completely nuts. I know franman suffered traumatic brain damage after the 9B fest. He's never been the same LOLOLOL.


The entertainment here is gold.
 
Maxou said:
TL;DR, my exemple of Mitsu is supposed to be wrong...
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The fact that your example was supposed to be wrong was taken into account.

You did ask for an explanation, but it seems you only wanted one so that you could say it was wrong, rather than actually take anything on board. Others as well as myself offered you plenty of explanation but you failed to listen when it was more difficult to disagree.

You may be a good SC player.
However, when we're talking about game changes that you have suggested, if you're unwilling to read a post that would take you 5 minutes, don't you think it calls into question your ability to sensibly influence game changes which could last forever?


I'm not just singling you out though as that would be unfair. It seems that others no longer wish to listen to what we are trying to say and are trying to reduce everything to absurdity. To these people, couldn't your time be better spent elsewhere?
 
Heisenberg said:
. But as we said, there is a reason why he is being defended so strongly and it isn't just character bias.
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this is unlikely to be true.

Everyone has a favourite, and their character will be subject to bias no matter how much someone denies it.

I can understand why nerfing 3B's safety is the wrong way to nerf 3B considering the rest of the pirate's movelist. Only example I can give is, "that in order to buff raphael, some of his tracking on his other moves need to be even more linear" which seems over the top.

Has any cerventes player felt actually felt comfortable proposing some sort of adjustment to 3B's combo potential ? Keep the risk the same, but lower the reward is what i'm hearing but that is being drowned out by pointless bickering.
 
I read your post, but I didn't think it deserved an answer because you missed the point. I'll answer something you wrote because you seem to really want an answer :

As you said, there is a reason why Cervantes is considered to be such a strong character. But as we said, there is a reason why he is being defended so strongly and it isn't just character bias. Does that make some sense?
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Actually the reason he is being defended so strongly is because he is underestimated by a lot of people.
In this thread I read : Cervantes mid tier. Or high tier. Perhaps. Or Cervantes high risk/high reward. Or being full of weaknesses (his ONLY weakness is that he is unsafe on some moves that you don't need to use on a consistent basis). There's a lot of character bias here. So, no that doesn't really make sense.


I started this whole argument because I read this about high risk/high reward. I can't understand why people can say this with a straight face. This whole arguement would be over already if some guys would admit this is just plain WRONG.

PS: And I don't even care about 3B actually, I don't even care about Belial's thread. I think it's a good idea if Namco listen to us but I don't know if it'll be the case.
 
What point was missed?

Also, I did say that the reason he is being defended isn't -just- character bias. Character bias will always factor into this kind of discussion, yes. I was saying that this isn't the only reason why all the Cervantes players are defending him. That may not have been clear.

It is nice to see you're not so adamant about his 3B becoming -15 though! To be honest that was the biggest problem that I had. I think that it was other people's biggest issue too. However, it has been abandoned in Belial's thread and you don't seem to care for the change any longer Maxou. A good thing! :)

I for one feel that for the most part Cervantes is fine, but wouldn't be adverse to light nerfs in the interest of fairness, which will probably be reflected in my vote in the other thread. Like I've said before though, way too early for this kind of exercise. If it is happening though, may as well participate.
 
Oh I don't care for the change, but I feel it's right don't misunderstand me.
Just like I'd like Alpha's 33B to be -16/-18.
 
WuHT said:
Has any cerventes player felt actually felt comfortable proposing some sort of adjustment to 3B's combo potential ? Keep the risk the same, but lower the reward is what i'm hearing but that is being drowned out by pointless bickering.
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well, considering that it isn't very fast, is insafe"ish", and requires (often very risky) JF inputs to get good damage...what is the issue with that move? sure, you could lower the damage, but that is really the thing that rounds cervy. he has unsafe, slow moves that do very big damage and he kinda has to rely on theme. if, say, his 3b combos were toned down to 70 or so damage...yuck. it is also relatively easy to turtle cervy to death with many characters. outside of an empty dash, slow/linear 33b or 4bBE for meter (none of which are options that i like at alllllllll), he doesn't really have a way to get in close, whereas most characters can close that space while attacking to kind of cover their asses. with stepg out of the picture, this turns into a pretty damn big factor. one of the main aspects of cervy is that when you do get bit by his slow and unsafe shit, it hurts and it should hurt bad.

fuck all this. i want cervy buffs! i want to stop getting thrown out of iGDR and 4bBE when i am clearly not on the ground. i want wrb to tech crouch like it looks like it should, or at least hit grounded. i want an i15 or less punisher that isn't either ass damage or taking an entire bar to do. hell, i want to be able to punish shit with iGDR. i want iTP back. i want 22(b) to stop randomly whiffing left and right. i want 4bBE to guard crush with out being somehow minus a million when it happens. i want 4a+b to have range that is more than like 3 feet in front of where it begins. i want his a+gBE to have a smaller break window. i want the camera to stop randomly switching sides in the middle of iGDR combos and making me die. i want 1k or 1ab or SOMETHING decent and low to be safe, even if at disadvantage on hit. i want 4kk to be mid/mid so that it actually has a use. i want 66k to have more range than his outie. i want stepping into range to be less risky than, say, a random haymaker iGDR.

give me all of these things, and i will agree that he is top tier.

TL:DR - the risk for 3b is already huge. it is moderately unsafe, it is slow, it is linear and easily stepped in either direction, it pushes back on block to keep your opponent out of throw range and force him to take a gamble and get back in. that deserves a high reward, especially in a game where half of the cast can do more damage, get more space control and force stronger mixups just as easily, without being unsafe.
 
Maxou said:
Oh I don't care for the change, but I feel it's right don't misunderstand me.
Just like I'd like Alpha's 33B to be -16/-18.
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Well that is OK, since we're approaching the point where we'll only be going in circles and that would just serve to annoy. I may think that it would be a crazy change! But, it's a perfectly reasonable thing for people to have a difference of opinion. I'm just happy that the change is no longer being put forward.


WuHT said:
Has any cerventes player felt actually felt comfortable proposing some sort of adjustment to 3B's combo potential ? Keep the risk the same, but lower the reward is what i'm hearing but that is being drowned out by pointless bickering.
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Here's the thing. iGDR's main use is as a combo filler/ender. I would argue that it has limited utility beyond that, not enough utility to warrant the just frame being all that important anyway.

3B's combo potential lies in iGDR. Without it, the most meterless damage he can do is 3B, 8B+K, 2A+B for ~65 damage.

The most guaranteed meterless damage from 3B with iGDR is 3B, iGDR, iGDR for ~92 damage.

I feel like I'm about to open a can of worms here, but this is the way I see it.
It has been said that execution barriers shouldn't factor into a character's tier rating. Technically that may be true, but (without wanting to reshash age old arguments that we could discuss forever) I would say that an execution barrier should factor into a character's effectiveness when considering nerfs and buffs. It seems that Namco feel the same way, since they give you extra damage for performing the just frame in combos.

Anyway, from 3B, you get a bonus of around 27 damage for performing 2 just frames in one combo instead of performing none. Do you feel that this is inappropriate? If so, before considering how to make the change, how much extra damage would be appropriate given the execution barrier? Or would you think that it would be better to both lower the execution requirement and the damage?


lobo said:
fuck all this. i want cervy buffs!
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lol, come on now, lets not get TOO carried away ;)
 
As long as we are talking strange Cervyisms, how about the magical Algol 4B(BE) iGDR don't touch me tricks!?! You fly right through him! He just looks at you! Your electric spinning death torpedo does nothing to the Mighty Algol...sometimes.
 
Eli123s said:
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XO What the hell is this troll of a scrub doing here invading the Cervy forums and picking on me?!

My pirate has stepped out of the void of damnation and gave your dominmatrix a lesson to prove who's her daddy.

You're right about one thing, I'm never the same because I'm like a Super Saiyn who gets beaten but levels up. Now it comes to a point where I only have to use a few brain cells instead of full capacity to take you down (w/ style).
 
wow a lotta pressure put on the cervantes defenders in their own turf.
 
crow_winters said:
Girls, GIRLS, YOU'RE BOTH PRETTY.

by which i mean, both your characters are stupid.
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+1 for this

lobo said:
...the best low in the game? ...i think of ... algol bubble trap 11a... that fucked up aeon low ... leix and all her low string trickery... greekwhore 1k... NM "crazy wtf range" 1k... viola's 2k into throw bullshitbullshitbullshit. ... asty getting 2a as a tech trap with 22b mixup options... oprah's tech jumping, stunning 1k...
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Dude head back to Ranked Match, they are missing you there

JustinAkatsuki said:
P.S. Think this thread should be closed now.
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
 
Kalas said:
Oh, I was only waiting for your response. =P

I can't really tell what in this thread is hidden sarcasm and what not. It just can't be that people ask for buffs for this Cervantes.
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Well I for one geninuely want to know what are "Acceptable" nerfs to current cerventes mainers and their reasons why so.
 
-Reduced damage on CH 1AB
-Reduced damage on an airhit iGDR
-Reduced pushback on aB
-Lose the Clean Hit on iGDR
-Lose the launch on tip range 3B

And there you go, Cervy is fine. I DO play Cervantes, I DON'T favorite him, and my opinion is not biased. He is a good character, but he is not broken. He's in the same boat as Nightmare. Solid B/A tier, but not in need of nerfs or buffs; its other members of the cast that need buffs.
 
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