1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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I'd go sooner rather than later. Tournaments are a great learning environment win or lose. That experience also helps guide solo practice. Online etc's ok, but nothing tops tourney play for helping someone pick up a game.
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Agreed. It's best to just show up and get the experience whether you think you're ready or not. I pretty much did that right off the bat. Also, the more people you meet there the more likely you are to get contacts for casual offline play. Online is okay at first, but when you really want to get into how the game is played you'll want to play strictly offline. Or maybe not. I just know in my case I can't stomach online anymore.
 
It would suck if I couldn't stomach online play, because Quebec is for cavemen, nobody here plays SCIV.
Edit: I'm not using that as an excuse for not going to tourneys. ...And I'm surprised that a tier list thread has gone off-topic like that.
 
My tier list : (in order)

Tier 1 : Voldo, Setsuka, Hilde
Tier 2 : Yoshi, Kilik, Taki, Ivy, Amy, Cervy, Cass, Sophi
Tier 3 : Asta, X, Mitsu, Sieg, Lizardman, Yun
Tier 4 : Tira, Nightmare, Rock, Maxi
Tier 5 : Zas, Mina

I may have done some mistakes but I believe I am right at least for tier 1.
Voldo, Setsuka and Hilde are the best characters in the game.

There was a debate if Setsuka was Tier 3 or not, it's wrong. Completely wrong.
She's top tier because of the same things she was top tier in SoulCa 3. Back then in SC3, some people argued "she has no low... blahblah... she has no throw range... blablah... she can be stepped..." and in the end everyone agreed she was as broken as SC3 X (isn't it Di?? :D).
She's nearly the same character as in SC3, but what she lost in damage (and not that much, she still deals a very good amount of damage), she won in "completion" (is that the correct word??), she's more complete now, at least she causes threats to stepping, her lows are BETTER (not very good but better than it was in SC3), her throws are better too (better lows+better throws, now people wants to duck more against her, but it's still as dangerous as it was), she one of the best CF character in the game (not because she breaks the CF gauge with very small amount of moves but because the moves she uses to do so are extremely usefull - and because of GI), and she still is one of the BEST punitions character in the game (i12 = JF umbrella/AA, i13 = umbrella, i14 = 44B+K, i17 = 1B:B) .
In SC4 I personally believe Setsuka's mind game, is way more easier (taking skill out of consideration which isn't that hard once you mastered JF umbrella - 1B:B and 214~3B:B cannot be considered JFs).
 
How are her lows better?
I can definitely see the improvement as far as her throwgame is concerned with the increment of throwrange and damage. But I dont see how her lows are better. Actually they seem even worse now that a messed up 1A:A:A attempt doesnt even KND anymore.
Except for Tier 1 and maybe Yuns rank I find myself agreeing with most of your placings, though.
 
Well 1A:A is hardly a JF too. Once you got the timing right, it's kinda hard to miss the KD. 1A:A:A is slightly harder (because the third A has a different timing) but still really easy to do compared to real JFs (Yoshi's 4A:A:A:AA as an exemple).

Why are her low better? Risk / reward !
In SC4, her lows have a really good reward for a risk that is clearly smaller than in SC3:

CH 11A > 75 dmg, super TC (goes under some mids used correctly - like X's 44B ) and a really good anti step tool. Adv. on NH too.
2A+B > around 50 dmg (don't remember exactly) and a lot of characters cannot punish it with good rewarding moves because of the push back. Though it's still unsafe.
1A:A pushes back far more than in SC3, though still unsafe and it can still be seen on reaction, but it has a very good tracking (360?) and you can't always be sure to block the first low. I kinda miss the long distance RO though.
214~2K > Slightly safer than regular 2K (really hard to punish for Cassy as an exemple), it's still a good move to confuse people.

Used after a GI, 2A+B and 1AAA are really good (or 1AAA for front RO/Wallsplat), while 11A, 214~2K, 2K can be used for pressing/active defense (11A is a very good active defense move).

236 stance makes deceiptive animation and can be used to use her low.

Her low are better believe me (but they're still not good :/ Only 214~2K and 11A are really good).


Can you devellop about my tier 1 placement and about YunSung? (especially YunSung)
 
Plume said:
It would suck if I couldn't stomach online play, because Quebec is for cavemen, nobody here plays SCIV.
Edit: I'm not using that as an excuse for not going to tourneys. ...And I'm surprised that a tier list thread has gone off-topic like that.
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Where do you live in Quebec? Might be able to host a few games at my place if you're near the national capital region (the actual national capital, not Quebec City).
 
rtsdNIGHTMARE said:
Where do you live in Quebec? Might be able to host a few games at my place if you're near the national capital region (the actual national capital, not Quebec City).
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I guess that you mean Ottawa?
Yes I'm somewhat close, I live a little to the south of Montreal, but it's still a few hours away.
 
warble said:
Tiers are based on hotness, Sophie is Cassandra's sister so even with that face we still want her "on top" That's also obviously the reason Setsuka made it all the way to the top.
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Sophie=MILF.

Sophie has curves.

Most notably 236.

Sophie>everyone else.
 
I say it's time we include the Star Wars characters.

Yoda would be bottom-tier (lots of brain-dead counter picks), Apprentice & Vader lower-mid. I personally think Apprentice could potentially be mid - the force throw break gives him the strongest defense in the game. He is a fine counter-pick to Astaroth (as OOFMATIC showed at SB3) and I see him having very balanced matchups across the board (except maybe against the characters who make his throws whiff). I just think nobody mains him because he's extremely boring to play and not THAT great (think Elena in 3rd Strike).


Oh yeah, and I like Jinmaster's tier list the best of anyone's here. Maxou's ain't bad either, except I'm still not convinced that Volde & Hilde are more than parlor tricks.

-Josh
 
rashreflection said:
I personally think Apprentice could potentially be mid - the force throw break gives him the strongest defense in the game. He is a fine counter-pick to Astaroth (as OOFMATIC showed at SB3) and I see him having very balanced matchups across the board (except maybe against the characters who make his throws whiff). I just think nobody mains him because he's extremely boring to play and not THAT great (think Elena in 3rd Strike).
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Apprentice is mid tier. He'd be upper-mid if not for whiffing 3B against certain characters and throws / 22B against nightmare, cervy and sieg.

He has good, decent, and a few bad matchups (namely sophi). He can do a LOT of damage and can be played fairly safe.
 
Tier list threads are the fastest way to farm insults and long-winded nothings.
Plume said:
But yeah, once I feel that I don't have much left to learn by myself and online, I will probably go.
It would just be a mostly wasted experience if I went so soon.
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Backwards. That's the route I took and I feel like I wasted alot of time learning things the slow way by myself and online when I could've just went to a few gatherings and learned much quicker.

Don't forget, you get what you put in these things. Observe, participate, and TALK. I'm as shy as they come but trust me on this, you'll be a better calibur player for it.
 
I think I can understand.
For the sake of a meaningful discussion : It can't really help with inputs, but it can probably forge good habits faster, and increase knowledge.

Much less meaningful : I'll stop giving my excuses and just say "I'll go when I'll go." :P
 
Cervantes should be Top Tier. He's just way to powerful to be any lower. Even though he's a cheap character, he deserves to be higher.
 
No way Voldo is "just parlor tricks".

High punisher? A+B, 66B, 6:6B, 2A+B~CR B for 55.
Unsafe move? 6:6B, 66B, 6:6B, 2A+B~CR B for 67.
Backdash? Dreadcharge? Whiff? CR A+B.
Ringouts? 1K, 6:6. BS 22_88B, 6:6. BS 22_88K[K], MCFT 6A+K, MCFT 66. WR , MCFT 6A+K, MCFT 66. 66A+B. 66A+BK. 22_88K. CR B. BS 66K. CH BS 3B, BS A+B.
Whiffed GI punisher? [B+K] for 70. CR [A+B] for 70.
He's also got the best soul gauge damage in SC4, probably only tied by Yun-Seong. I've critical finished in 1 round post 1.03. I have your soul gauge yellow or red guaranteed by round 2. If it goes to round 4 or 5, your soul gauge is blinking red the entire match.
Then throw in things like 66K on cleanhit. Backthrow is uninterruptable. If they start ducking, BCR B, BS 1[K], BS 2B+K, MCHT K.
Then throw in things like 6:6B, 66B, 6:6B, 1. You duck? A+B, 66B, 6:6B, 1 to reset the trap. You don't duck? Uninterruptable throw attempt.

Way more than parlor tricks.
 
Plume,

I also recommend going sooner rather than later and for one more good reason: It's fun as hell to meet people that have the same passion as your own.

I mean, I can talk for hours about this game but most of the time no one's listening =)
 
Maxou said:
My tier list : (in order)

Tier 1 : Voldo, Setsuka, Hilde
Tier 2 : Yoshi, Kilik, Taki, Ivy, Amy, Cervy, Cass, Sophi
Tier 3 : Asta, X, Mitsu, Sieg, Lizardman, Yun
Tier 4 : Tira, Nightmare, Rock, Maxi
Tier 5 : Zas, Mina
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Not bad man.

Here are mine if including the Star Wars characters.

Top Tier:

Kilik, Setsuka, Voldo, Ivy, Cassandra, Hilde, Algol

Upper mid:

Starkiller, Astaroth, Amy, Yoshimitsu

Mid:

Mina, Vader, Cervantes, Siegfried, Xianghua, Taki, Yunsung, Sophitia, Rock, Raphael, Nightmare, Tira, Talim, Mitsurugi, Lizardman

Lower Mid:

Maxi, Zasalamel


Low Tier:

Yoda


Also Maxou, check your PMs.
 
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