1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Hot_Rod_Dave said:
can anyone explain to me what the "tier" is based off of. ive been reading this thread all damn day today, and i see lots of lists, but not exactly sure what EXACTLY they are based off of. please forgive my noob question
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Not a problem.

Tier positions are referenced as an ability of the character to win taking in account the character tools and the matchups against the cast.

If a character has advantage against most of the cast, he is considered top tier and so on so forth.

Offline tourneys are a very good way to evaluate character potential since if there is an extremely overpowered character, he would be used by most of the contestants historically, like what is happening right now with Brawl and Metaknight and they're studying a possible ban from competition. Also, offline tourneys allows you to see most characters played at a high level and then you could compare the matchups better.

Also, there are cases where a game punishes you for picking mid to low tier as they won't have a chance to win at all against the top tier (MvC2, some KOF games, Tekken 4) . In SC4 everyone can win minus Yoda IMO. Some with more efforts than others like every fighting game, but this game doesn't punish a player hard for their character choice.

Hope that helps!
 
Angrel-San said:
Not a problem.

Tier positions are referenced as an ability of the character to win taking in account the character tools and the matchups against the cast.

If a character has advantage against most of the cast, he is considered top tier and so on so forth.

Offline tourneys are a very good way to evaluate character potential since if there is an extremely overpowered character, he would be used by most of the contestants historically, like what is happening right now with Brawl and Metaknight and they're studying a possible ban from competition. Also, offline tourneys allows you to see most characters played at a high level and then you could compare the matchups better.

Also, there are cases where a game punishes you for picking mid to low tier as they won't have a chance to win at all against the top tier (MvC2, some KOF games, Tekken 4) . In SC4 everyone can win minus Yoda IMO. Some with more efforts than others like every fighting game, but this game doesn't punish a player hard for their character choice.

Hope that helps!
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actually that helps alot. i main maxi and all these tiers say that maxi is low tier. i was under the impression that everyone thinks maxi cant win cause he sucks. but in fact he just has to work harder to win (which is totally true in my case, but i still win) cool guys...thanx for clearing that up. this thread isnt stupid after all....lol
 
Hot_Rod_Dave said:
actually that helps alot. i main maxi and all these tiers say that maxi is low tier. i was under the impression that everyone thinks maxi cant win cause he sucks. but in fact he just has to work harder to win (which is totally true in my case, but i still win) cool guys...thanx for clearing that up. this thread isnt stupid after all....lol
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He can win, but you has to guess right a LOT against someone that knows how to beat him.
 
I fail to see how sieg is a harder matchup for nightmare than astaroth. Interesting that you're working on a chart over there though.
 
Tiamat said:
I fail to see how sieg is a harder matchup for nightmare than astaroth. Interesting that you're working on a chart over there though.
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In fact this one is gonna be updated today, Astaroth vs Nightmare : 6 : 4
Bullrush is really too strong against his frame traps :)


Hayate play Kilik
Kayane play Xianghua
DTN play Siegfried
 
It's not a definitive list, just the actual evolution, we have to play much much longer to have a better view of the game.

But it's still good to debate.

For Siegfried vs Nightmare match, i have watched DTN vs Keev yesterday, and i'am pissed off that i can't reccord this match, it was too good to watch, i think i will update to 5-5. But if the Night tyr abusing 33B, Siegfried 4K gives him a little small advantage, but Keev is a very smart player and played very well versus dan yesterday, so i think the match-up can be equal

The Setsuka line is purely "theorical" and only done by MAXOU, we have still to play him to see if he tell right :D

I'am searching a special cable to reccord the match at my home next time, so maybe next week you can see some high level france action!
 
Setsuka is top tiers but she's so hard to play ... i cant see anyone winning a major with her for now. In tourney or money match - first to five/ten, there is too much pressure, and she's already hard to master in casual so ... :p

Only top Setsuka I've seen yet is Chang's Friend, and even he mess up his JF at some crucials moment (like 214B+G near edge, and missing his JF ombrella, loosing the round after).

Maybe later in the game's life, someone will step up with her with 95+% success with all her JFs and bring her to the top in tournament, not only in match-up chart :)
 
Kita Senri is a very good Setsuka player too.

And my boy Maxou is saying Setsuka is God Tier?

Hehe, I wish but if someone is gonna be that is Kilik and even as powerful as he is, I don't think he reaches that level but he is closer to heaven than earth definitely.

BTW, does Keev still uses Nightmare/Talim? He no longer plays Rock? I like Keev a lot from your players and would love to see more videos from his play.
 
Balanced Fighting Game is a joke cause Perfection is a joke.

But SC4 is the most balanced Soulcalibur.
 
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