Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion

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what can I do to get a consistent iagA? I get it sometimes but it's very random, is there any trick or something? I press ag and R1 (A+B) for the input
 
For me personally it helped to think like i would press all 3 buttons kinda simultaneously.
You have 4 frames to press all 3 buttons, which means you need JF timing between the first A and G as well as between G and the second A.

Sweaty fingers (or anything else to make them more slippery) can be quite helpful at the beginning.

You could practice it in training mode by doing a few dozen of agas in a row as fast as you can. By doing that, you will increase your speed and eventually get the JF consistently.
 
When you get a throw that means you actually did press them simultaneously. Like either A+Ga or aA+G.
Same for A+B - that one only happens when you use binds with B's in them though.
 
I think we should help Rurounikenshin with his information on characters thing so if you're interested copy the below format and put your opinion. Hopefully we can reach a general consensus about Siegfried and help turn his idea into a nice guide for newer players to look at when deciding a character to main. He had a great idea, just executed it poorly.

Siegfried:
-Style: Zoning, CH fishing, and baiting horizontals.
-Why use: If you like to play keep away with your opponent and use tools that give you major rewards for making the correct read (Ex. SBH aGI and CH 3B).
-Pros: Long range, good long range pokes, great damage off of SBH aGI, good damage with CH and meter, good ringout game, easy execution.
-Cons: Unsafe, Whiffing issues, low damage without CH or meter, bad standing punishment, slow overall.
-Players you should be looking out for: Heaton, Shen Yuan (now mains Ezio), Pantocrator.
 
Solo said:
I think we should help Rurounikenshin with his information on characters thing so if you're interested copy the below format and put your opinion. Hopefully we can reach a general consensus about Siegfried and help turn his idea into a nice guide for newer players to look at when deciding a character to main. He had a great idea, just executed it poorly.

Siegfried:
-Style: Zoning, CH fishing, and baiting horizontals.
-Why use: If you like to play keep away with your opponent and use tools that give you major rewards for making the correct read (Ex. SBH aGI and CH 3B).
-Pros: Long range, good long range pokes, great damage off of SBH aGI, good damage with CH and meter, good ringout game, easy execution.
-Cons: Unsafe, Whiffing issues, low damage without CH or meter, bad standing punishment, slow overall.
-Players you should be looking out for: Heaton, Shen Yuan (now mains Ezio), Pantocrator.
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Siegfried.

Style: Yomi heavy, Zoning Based Poke character with decent crush abilities. Adaptable, but does not excel in close range.

Difficulty: Medium-Advanced

Why use: Use if you want to play a character who can keep the opponent at bay, trying to bait them into traps, and waiting them out. Also use if you dont mind taking alot of risks, or if you're good at Reading your opponent. He requires a bit of patience. Also use him because you want to play a MANLY GERMAN GUY

Pros: Long range, good pokes and strong poking game at range, Strong CH and meter damage, great grab range, decent TO game, moderately easy execution barrier. Relatively well rounded and able to deal with most situations in some way, and has alot of different tools for alot of different situations. One of the best launchers in the game(iWR B) and one of the best Horizontal High stepkillers in the game(iagA), has alot of gimmicks which can screw the opponent up. Is very well suited for baiting the opponent, and can also bait whiffs relatively effectively. Decent at containing the opponent's movement, and keeping them in check. Probably the best set of WR attacks in the game. Decent guard crush, ok FC game, good wall game. Decent horizontal baiting game. One of the best fronsteps in the game. Can make opponent lock up with stances.

Cons: Very very unsafe, Severe Whiffing issues can make some things unreliable, low NH damage, mediocre meterless punishment. JG murders him pretty hard. Has a couple of VERY BAD matchups. Difficulty dealing with step TC's(though he can). Doesnt have standard tools, suffers under close range pressure, not much in the way of speedy lows. Alot of tools are situation specific. Requires a strong ability to make good reads, and it doesnt hurt if the opponent makes a couple of dumb mistakes either. Can be linear, is somewhat vulnerable to TC. Has alot of gimmicks which can be dealt with quite easily at high levels of play. While he is decently fast enough to do OK in close, alot of his faster moves are actually quite weak and linear, and very few of them have any special properties. Other than WR B(not 3B, as it has a much worse TC) he isnt the strongest in the TC department. Requires very careful spacing of the opponent to be successful, and uses alot of matchup-specific strats. Isnt the greatest whiff punisher. Isnt as damaging as alot of other characters, save for certian situations. is very meter heavy if you do want good damage. There are situations that other characters can answer with one move where siegfried will have to make a 50/50 guess. Poor GI game. Can have alot of difficulty dealing with close range pressure in certain matchups. easily backstepable and zoned himself with no really good backstep killing options(there are moves that fill the niche, but none of them are really good for this), Relatively poor sidestep and backstep. Stances are extremely unsafe.

Players you should look out for: Heaton, Shen Yuan(ex sieg), Pantocrator, Sacharja, ChaosK, Myself, Pyro Zamfir(currently inactive), Synraii(curently secondaries him)
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TBH i think ruroni pretty much ballparked it. he just essentially wrote out an abbreviated version of what we said is all(really, who wants to read my walls of text anyways? actually, who even reads my walls of text?)

I think newer players would get the jist of the idea of sieg by reading his post anyways. i dont see what we can really do to help that along any further.
 
ChaosK said:
Sounds good but i personally think "mediocre" meterless punishment is stretching it.
No meter: -18 punish for 40ish dmg? Yay
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SCH B is a force block after 3(B), and if you're really greedy, you can try for 3(B) ~ SCH K, and then do the SCH B force block. The latter is technically air controllable, but I don't know anyone that does that ever.
 
ChaosK said:
As you said, SCH B is not a guaranteed force block if you do SCH K.
So you only get your 30 dmg off of 3B.
Dont rely on gimmicks.
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I rely on what works, and that has worked for me since launch. Not to mention, it might not be air controllable if you delay the K a bit, and if you want to yomi them ACing and getting the fuck up ASAP, 3(B) ~ SCH K ~ SCH 6B+K puts them right in your face standing.

And even if you lose 9 damage, so what? You're banking on a guard break, which in this game can lead to either a ridiculously big payoff for Siegfried later on in the form of being able to pressure them even more so than usual with JagA, or assuming you break, a free SBH B combo.

I swear to god, this SA makes me want to go pick up Ω just so I can stab the depression out of you all.
 
Oh this has really nothing to do with depression heaton. A char doesn't need big dmg meterless punishment to be good.

This was just an interpretation of his strengths and weaknesses and imho, its safe to say that a -18 punish that deals 30 or 39 dmg, either way, is pretty below average.

Now to get back at the setup. Dont get me wrong, it does work and i am using it too but the problem in itself is that it still relies on char ignorance and therefore has no place in a legit discussion about a characters strengths.
Basically, if it would be strong enough to actually be bothersome, people would learn how to AC it and this in itself is saying something.
 
ChaosK said:
This was just an interpretation of his strengths and weaknesses and imho, its safe to say that a -18 punish that deals 30 or 39 dmg, either way, is pretty below average.
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To compare:

Aeon: 4A, 51 damage + KND
Algol: 4BA, 55 damage + KND
Astaroth: 66K, 28 damage + 10 frames
Cervantes: 66B, 50 damage + KND; at range 30 damage, no KND
Ezio: 6B, high, 28 damage and +6
Hilde: 66B, high, 24 damage and +9
Maxi: 6A+B, 35 damage + KND
Ivy: 3B, 38 damage + KND; becomes i19 at tip; gets better damage on fat people
Raphael: 3(B), 48 damage and +10; at range 38 damage and +11
Yoshimitsu: 3B, 60 damage and the ability to AC your knockdown to fullscreen


I'm not sure what average you're looking at, but the only characters I see that get objectively better meterless punishment from i18 are Greeks, α Pat, Viola, and Mitsu. Everyone else kind of sucks balls at meterless punishment, for one reason or another, and Siegfried's having the utility of being able to benefit you later in the fight instead of immediately makes his probably one of the best "low damage" punishers.

I think you are seriously underestimating the value of guard damage, especially for a character like Siegfried. Not only are you banking on getting a ridiculously heavy damage combo later down the line, there is a huge psychological advantage to your opponent flashing red - an advantage that can be far more valuable then getting 50 or 60 damage meterless.

ChaosK said:
Now to get back at the setup. Dont get me wrong, it does work and i am using it too but the problem in itself is that it still relies on char ignorance and therefore has no place in a legit discussion about a characters strengths.
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Again, 3(B) ~ SCH K ~ SCH 6B+K is a thing. It's a mixup between air controlling and not - if they want to AC into a 50/50, that's fine. Character ignorance or not, this is still a thing, and it DOES have place in a discussion about his strengths.

ChaosK said:
Basically, if it would be strong enough to actually be bothersome, people would learn how to AC it and this in itself is saying something.
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I know very few players who don't actively go out of their way Shit, most of the things Xeph knows about Siegfried he knows because he guessed right ("I bet I can stab this...yeah, I can."), or because I told him ("Hey, you can stab 22KK on block...yeah, like that...fuck.").

Not to mention absolutely no one trained for Viola Back Throw bullshit at EVO, and we saw how bothersome that ended up being.
 
Heaton said:
To compare:

Aeon: 4A, 51 damage + KND
Algol: 4BA, 55 damage + KND
Astaroth: 66K, 28 damage + 10 frames
Cervantes: 66B, 50 damage + KND; at range 30 damage, no KND
Ezio: 6B, high, 28 damage and +6
Hilde: 66B, high, 24 damage and +9
Maxi: 6A+B, 35 damage + KND
Ivy: 3B, 38 damage + KND; becomes i19 at tip; gets better damage on fat people
Raphael: 3(B), 48 damage and +10; at range 38 damage and +11
Yoshimitsu: 3B, 60 damage and the ability to AC your knockdown to fullscreen
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Isn't Hilde's 2A+B i16 and it hits 34 damage I think (their frame data is out of date I believe, it got buffed damage wise in an early patch and I don't think they changed that in the wiki).
At -18 with Asta almost every Asta player will go for a throw mix-up, or 66K into another Throw/66K mix-up.
Also can I point out Tira's i18 punishment is good, 47 in Jolly with potential for a 666B added if you get the stance transition and gloomy gets about 90 meterless damage (which is fucking annoying).

The force block is ok, but sometimes you want damage to their health not their guard meter but you don't always have meter to burn. I hate when to win the round I need to land about 50 damage, I land a normal hit 3B punish and I only get 39 damage and then have to run wtf mix-ups to get a little foot in poke to win. Personally if both kicks comboed in NH launch I would be perfectly fine with that, it would be 50 NH damage of a meterless launcher.
 
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