Maxi General Discussion

Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

When I fuck around with him. I find a lto of good pressure, and fucking combo dmg with the man. But I need more studying.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

After SB3 I'm done with SC4 Maxi at the competitive level. I'll wait for SF4, Blaze Blue, and Tekken 6.

Here' to SC5 Maxi sucking even more (if they even make one)....That's right folks you've heard it here first. -_-

hahahaha

maxi is decent mon. Try playing Mina and Zas :p
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Yeah, there's no point whining that your character sucks, but there's also no point in hiding behind the fact that Maxi simply isn't as good as the vast majority of characters in the game.

Sure, Maxi can win. But as has always been the case, lack of general Maxi knowledge is working in your favor there. Once you come up against someone that knows the ways to shut down Maxi from pretty much every one of his stance transitions and every other blocked move (there's no reason to block low), you see just how much he's been shafted.

I still play him frequently, and I think he's still very fun, but I won't lie and tell you he's great.

And saying "he can still win" and "he has the tools to escape every situation" is just saying absolutely nothing. Everyone can "still win" and everyone has "the tools" (guard impact anyone?), but most of the other characters can more easily win with their BETTER tools.

I said this in another thread when someone was constantly saying "Namco game him a move to escape every possible retaliation..."

A good character forces their opponent into guessing games to save their ass. Maxi puts HIMSELF in guessing games to save his OWN ass.


By all means, have fun with the character (I do). Talking objectively about his weaknesses doesn't make him any less fun to play.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Yeah, there's no point whining that your character sucks, but there's also no point in hiding behind the fact that Maxi simply isn't as good as the vast majority of characters in the game.

Sure, Maxi can win. But as has always been the case, lack of general Maxi knowledge is working in your favor there. Once you come up against someone that knows the ways to shut down Maxi from pretty much every one of his stance transitions and every other blocked move (there's no reason to block low), you see just how much he's been shafted.

I disagree, my opponents know maxi very well and i still get success. Most Maxi players haven't taken the time to research him enough to see what works and what doesn't...hence the problem. They got stuck in using the same old transitions and completely ignoring their basics. There are many transitions that simply CANNOT be shut down, so much especially if he hits. He's a mind game character, has always been this way.

Those that don't block low, will continue to eat BL B, 2KK, and a plethora of throws.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Maxi is now the worst character in this game and it just pisses me off.........

Anyways, wanted to see how you guys felt about it..... :/


with 6 different stances, and one of the hardest to control characters of the game, maxi can get away from ya really quick. I have been playing maxi since soulcalibur 1. everytime they change him up it pisses me off. but over time i think the change is for the better. dont get frustrated!! anyone wanna hit me on xbl, the names Hot Rod Dave, just let me know you are from the forums. always looking to perfect my maxi. i could use some help!!
<<<<<<<<<<<< love you like a fat kid loves cake >>>>>>>>>>>>
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

I disagree, my opponents know maxi very well and i still get success. Most Maxi players haven't taken the time to research him enough to see what works and what doesn't...hence the problem. They got stuck in using the same old transitions and completely ignoring their basics. There are many transitions that simply CANNOT be shut down, so much especially if he hits. He's a mind game character, has always been this way.

Those that don't block low, will continue to eat BL B, 2KK, and a plethora of throws.


Yeah, our problem is that we probably haven't taken the time to research him enough... I don't know anything about you, but I bet a lot of the people here have put in HUNDREDS of more hours of research into the game than you have.

I don't mean to be rude, but perhaps your FRIENDS haven't taken the time to learn how to actually BEAT Maxi.

And OF COURSE he can't be shut down from a lot of options FROM HIT. Hardly any characters can be shut down on hit. I'm talking about ON BLOCK, a situation which will happen pretty much ALL THE TIME when playing against a good player. When the opponent blocks just about anything of Maxi's, you are now in a guessing game to save your own ass (far moreso than just about any other character in the game). Most characters are just at a frame disadvantage, while Maxi has to guess correctly in order to not get hit. And believe me, every character has SEVERAL options to stop Maxi on block without risking hardly anything.

As for lows, Maxi has ZERO great lows, let alone a "plethora" of them. BL B won't happen if the opponent blocks the stance transition move in the first place (which they will) and the 2K,K_B mixup can be blocked on reaction making only the 2K ever hit. His throws do less damage than ever as well, limitting their use.

Fact of the matter is that Maxi's Risk/Reward ratio is laughable. His juggles don't do amazing damage to begin with and you have to put your ass on the line to get just about any of them off.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Yeah, our problem is that we probably haven't taken the time to research him enough... I don't know anything about you, but I bet a lot of the people here have put in HUNDREDS of more hours of research into the game than you have.

I don't mean to be rude, but perhaps your FRIENDS haven't taken the time to learn how to actually BEAT Maxi.

And OF COURSE he can't be shut down from a lot of options FROM HIT. Hardly any characters can be shut down on hit. I'm talking about ON BLOCK, a situation which will happen pretty much ALL THE TIME when playing against a good player. When the opponent blocks just about anything of Maxi's, you are now in a guessing game to save your own ass (far moreso than just about any other character in the game). Most characters are just at a frame disadvantage, while Maxi has to guess correctly in order to not get hit. And believe me, every character has SEVERAL options to stop Maxi on block without risking hardly anything.

As for lows, Maxi has ZERO great lows, let alone a "plethora" of them. BL B won't happen if the opponent blocks the stance transition move in the first place (which they will) and the 2K,K_B mixup can be blocked on reaction making only the 2K ever hit. His throws do less damage than ever as well, limitting their use.

Fact of the matter is that Maxi's Risk/Reward ratio is laughable. His juggles don't do amazing damage to begin with and you have to put your ass on the line to get just about any of them off.


You are wrong on many aspects here. It's ok though, sounds like you're getting a bit touchy, so i'd leave it as that.

-johnny blaze
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

I think I understand how this Maxi works, I really do.

Part of me likes it, the other side of me is slightly disappointed about it.

Only advice I can offer from MY perspective is...NCs and NCCs > Stance game> abuse faster strings or stance moves to apply pressure and train them to expect primarily the same shit>mix up to other attacks with different speeds or properties(such as a slow move stun on CH, after using alot of quick pokes)/PSL1,2,3,4,5 or WL/Return Maxi to neutral and search for NC, NCC, or, Punishment oppertunity (RC and RO(except from right sidewinder where you get RO>BL, hold 6 from the RO shift and it goes into the aGI PSL3>LO then hold A+K for PSL3>RO) cancel the fastest)

All while keeping the fundamentals of SC fresh in your head. The few lows he does have are for when your oppenent gets fucking crafty on defending against your Highs, 2A, and primarily your mids. Like Pheonix Wright, Maxi has an "OBJECTION!!" with your oppenents steamrolling all over him...just until you either make them release their block button, whiff a GI, or attempt to start their own offensive(thinking they can) your not gonna be doing too much(unless you got MAAAAAD danger balls). And this isn't even counting his CF game (66K...have them block a few 66Ks)

> = an arrow
/ = or

Thats how I, personally feel Maxi's game is in SC4. Maybe Im wrong on that, but on the serious note...Maxi is like C.Falcon. FUCKING BADASS!
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Ohh, you're Johnny Blaze?

Man, we've already had some of these discussions over at cf.com :) We don't seem to agree on a lot, do we?

Truthfully though, Rekano seems to play about the same way that I do with Maxi.

Right now, most of my friends don't shut down his stances very much, but that's only because they don't know how to do so or are afraid of Maxi since he always looking like he's doing something.

Maxi can be shut down, and he can be shut down EASILY with most characters. That means EVERY time you go into stance on block you get knocked out of it. No lie. If you're opponents aren't doing this then they just haven't figured out how to do so.

And please, elaborate on what's "wrong" about my post. I only get testy when people pull the "you don't have enough experience with BLAH" card. I play this game practically religiously, and this forum in particular (8wr.com) is full of A LOT more people that have even more quality play time than I do.

The people that are saying he's weak here ARE NOT people with little experience. The vast majority of Maxi realists are well established players. None of us are saying that he can't win (I'm not even sure he's bottom tier, for one), we just think that his tools aren't as good as MOST of the other characters' in the game.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Yeah, thats pretty much what I do. Lots of NC and NCC to train them to block, then quick one stance shift mixups when they start to expect the simple shit. Seems pretty effective, have yet to have my game shut down. Just keep pressing with the simple stuff until they try to get wise, then use your flashy shit.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Hmm...i'll try to go into detail but concisely why i disagree with u Rico.

Firstly though, i think Rekano summed up a bit, but i think it's much harder to explain what he REALLY means in words. At least what i think he means.

Rico in your post you said Maxi is punishable on block all the time basically, yet you haven't gone into what you're referring to exactly. We all know what are the unsafe stuff and the safe stuff. For instance i can point out a few examples where it's extremely difficult to punish, some can't punish at all without taking pretty big risks.

33bA blocked
RC aB blocked
4B blocked
RC aA blocked
RC B blocked


namely 4B and 3B, this attacks is 'unsafe' however how often are you punished for using this personally, reaaaallly? and of course i don't need to explain why. Maxi's loops generally operates on that principle really. Buying advantage because of the existence of his uninterruptable strings. This has always been his case since day 1. However the difference in SC4 now is that they've made G cancelling slower on his basics. They toned down bs across the board, i think it was only fair the did the same for him. The only one i truly dislike is AA, that was unnecessary and a BRUTAL nerf.

AS for the lows, i never said he has a plethora of them, what i did say is that i would do a plethora on the ones i listed. Sophie has zero great lows either. The ones i listed work well for me. Although i do consider his 1A and FC 1A as good lows, simple cuz of their properties. Too bad they're readable.

There are situations where BL B is hard to block. Post RO A, 33bA to name a few that work on block, and i also have wakeup setups where BL B is uninterruptable but i won't get into that now. There aren't much attacks that lead to BL btw. You normally get there through looping.

2KK is good cuz it's pressure, and it's MUCH safer than people think. Given the soulgauge system, them blocking isn't such a bad thing. I never suggested mixing 2KB (eew). 2KK is NCc, which is it's most important property to me. You think his throws are less useful cuz they shaved 5-10 pts of damage off? that's a horrible way of thinking man. Throws are improved in this game regardless of the damage reductions, you should do them. The wakeup after his throws are suprisingly good. I won't get into detail with that right now either

Laughable risk reward? feel free to point out some examples for me. I think if i risked doing 4B delayed LO BK and i manage to hit LO BK on CH -> 2B+KB combo, as opposed to them interrupting it with something that HAS to be fast, and in most cases weak damage (3K, 2A). I think that's pretty darn good risk reward. What are you using that is laughable?

Maxi has never been much of a juggler but now he has some crazy setups post combo. Interruptable attacks all over the place. You say he gets creamed for attempting juggles, i'm not sure what u meant. 9K vs lows, 44K safe on block, 3B(CH) vs highs and post stuns. Where is the risk really?

My maxi isn't loop heavy, but i use it when i know they're forced to hesitate. Most of the time when i HAVE been interrupted it's usually with a horizontal K, mostly 3K. I don't think that's unreasonable.

Also, lastly, when i said most players didn't go research (not playing experience) enough of Maxi to make certain claims, i was not directing that at you at all. It IS a general consensus, and i can guarantee you that it IS true. Many players simply ducked out prematurely. Either way that shouldn't be taken as an insult. I stopped playing Tira, but i admit i haven't researched her to even 25% of her ability (and i did do a bit of research on her)....should i feel insulted if someone told me this? How many characters u feel people actually researched THOROUGHLY. To say that means you have means you've essentially mastered that character no?
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

I actually agree with a lot of what you said, and you basically pointed out everything that makes Maxi capable of still winning (even though I think he's not too hot).

Also, I only just recently learned that 1A has MUCH better frames than FC 1A which I actually think can improve his game a little (it may be readable, but -12 on block isn't bad at all).

In general, I find that other characters' 3K's (character dependent of course) stop Maxi dead in his tracks in most situations, as you mentioned a bit in your post. And I know people that know to duck for a second after 3B to avoid the possible high followup and then interrupt once they know you aren't TJ-ing.

And when I talk about risk/reward, I'm mainly using it juxtaposed with the risk/reward of better characters. Setsuka, for example, can spam dozens of safe, mid moves, most of which lead to about 60 damage or so, with no real risk at all. 3B is a risk on block from most characters. 44K isn't as much of a risk, but it still doesn't afford much reward. 9K is a risk because it's so slow (and this is the only option here that leads to any real damage in my oppinion). Essentially, I feel like just about everything Maxi DOES is more risky than it should be.

Next, I feel that Maxi was one of the hardest hit by the nerfing of the CF game in 1.03. Before, standing there and blocking everything Maxi did pretty much assured AT LEAST one CF per match, but now your opponent can just stand there blocking for quite some time before it even becomes an issue.

Also, I forget at the moment, but is 2K,K CH confirmable? I don't think it is but I'm not sure. It does have decent frames though, but looking at the Wiki frame data, I'm now starting to think that even regular (non-stance-transition) moves have some incorrect data.

Oh, and believe me, I whore out throws like no one's business. Even though they've been nerfed 10 points I still use them like crazy. They just don't put as much fear into the opponent as they did in SC2 and 3.

To be honest though, and I thank you for responding so in depth, you might be convincing me to up Maxi a little bit. I don't think there's any way to argue he's better than Mid tier, but it's possible that he's good enough to be there.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

When SC4 first dropped and Maxi started showing signs of "im not the same" I tried to drop Maxi and go all Yoshi, but 6+ years with a character, hard for me to turn my back on that.

Nunchuks forever, son.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

Ah, for that reason I rarely use 3B AND 6A. Generally i don't like initiators into RO, because RO A is so tempting to use and easily counterable.

The only safe mid move sets can spam for 60 damage is 33B. And even that i don't think she can spam. Honestly not many characters can 'spam' attacks. However though i tihnk what you're trying to say is that she's a better poker and i agree 100% Maxi is not that kind of guy....anymore. There's no more ideal Bg, 4Bg, and AAg.

When u use 9K, it's for jumping lows, nothing else, therefore no risk.

44K is risk free, safe, and mid, and has decent tracking to his left.

The CF thing did hit him hard however, he can still work the gauge with 66B+K and his GB attacks.

2KK is NOT hit confirmable, but it doesn't matter. 2K by itself sucks. i ALWAYS do the 2KK regardless cuz i said it's essentially safe. It's like -14 for the most.

Maxi is in NO WAY better than midtier.....not even uppermid for that matter, but it irks me when people say he's trash or risky without enough justification. Although Rico, you still haven't pointed out those risks yet :p what does your moveset look like?
Also, you're really late with the 1A thing, u should hit yourself :p
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

I know, I know. I've always used 1A, but it's not until recently that I found out why I wasn't getting reamed for using it =)

I've got class in 15 minutes but I'll try to go a little more in depth later tonight.
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

I'm starting to use the :A:+:K:, :B:+:K:, :B:,:B:,:A: combo. Does this lead to the :B:+:K: facing away move at the end?
 
Maxi = Brawl's Captain Falcon

I'm starting to use the :A:+:K:, :B:+:K:, :B:,:B:,:A: combo. Does this lead to the :B:+:K: facing away move at the end?

If you're talking about :B:+:K::B::B::B::A:
The JF version does. The standard version knocks them too far away.

If you mean Sidewinder to WL to Wavering Dream... Who lets you do this? WD does let you land the B+K tho.
 
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