Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate

Rikuto said:
Yomi talk time.

Because despite the fact you just punished them, all that punishment really entailed was getting stunned. They can always escape regular stun, although its definitely not an ideal situation to be in. People do not instinctively think that far ahead. That initial mistake matters a lot, but it doesn't occur to most people that is where the avalanche of pain begins so they keep behaving recklessly until the very last possible moment that leads to big damage.

For some people, the only punishment that effects the way they are conditioned is how often they are getting thrown out of a hold. Or, if you have a single attack that goes straight into a sitdown and takes noticeable life away from them, that will also make a mental impact on people and condition against silly actions.

Remember that there are a ton of small actions in this game that you can't always protect yourself against, so most people take that damage for granted and don't allow it to alter their thought process. It's the big stuff that is going to make a mental impact and allow you to control your opponent.

That is good for Akira, in a way. If people refuse to become conditioned against the smaller counter-hits, that simply gives you more openings to work with. Recognize which rocks can be moved to divert the streams flow, and which rocks will not move without long term effort.

Then recognize, not all rocks need to be moved.
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Not exactly what I meant.

Here's an example.

Great! I hit my opponent with P now I have +2. I don't want him to duck, so I'll do 66P. Great, 66P hit, now what do I do?

It's basically the same issues I have with Jacky. I see that his 6P+K has an unholdable stun, but its slow, and high. I haven't been able to land it yet. How do I land it? Or Jacky's P+K, how do I make it work?

Emulating someone else's playstyle doesn't really work for me. I can watch videos of them playing, but its only a small snapshot of their playstyle and they're usually playing players that I am not usually playing.

EDIT: Nope, not doing it.
 
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JAGTHEGEMINI said:
To "Adapt" is overrated imo. Personal playstile is more important.

Large update maybe coming in October? I hope so, Helena and Rachel are really strong.
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Lol Helena? She's still really good but they've already taken away her blender. What more do you want?
 
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Reptile said:
Thanks for the help, I don't really know how to set it up, but I don't have an online partner to play with so it doesn't matter. You told me what I wanted to know.
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No Problem, you are Welcome..hmm why dont you post your GT/Psn Tag here or just join the folks over Freestepdodge?
Im sure there are plenty folks who are willing to play with you =)
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
I almost don´t care about a different engine of another game as long as I can still play the way I used to.




To "Adapt" is overrated imo. Personal playstile is more important.

Large update maybe coming in October? I hope so, Helena and Rachel are really strong.
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Why shouldn't you have to adapt? I had to change my playstyle for 5U since TN took away Ayane's FT's and nerfed the effectiveness of 3H+K. It sounds like laziness if you just want to play the same way in every game. If you want to play the old Ein, play DOA4.

I'm intrigued by what TN will be doing with this new patch. Seems a little early for a major balance patch though... so hmm...
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
Large update maybe coming in October? I hope so, Helena and Rachel are really strong.
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Eh.

Rachel has oki in a game where nobody has oki.

After playing RTD's Mitsu she's a joke.

Windstar said:
Great! I hit my opponent with P now I have +2. I don't want him to duck, so I'll do 66P. Great, 66P hit, now what do I do?
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well I mean... you play stun game or go for a launch? I don't know what to tell you.

If the guy isn't respecting you you CB him until he does... if the guy doesn't budge you smack him until he moves or you win.

Windstar said:
It's basically the same issues I have with Jacky. I see that his 6P+K has an unholdable stun, but its slow, and high. I haven't been able to land it yet. How do I land it? Or Jacky's P+K, how do I make it work?
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That'd be 4P+K (6P+K being the pimp hand).

You could try spacing it, but it'd be tight spacing (I rate the move as the tip-top of close range)... When I see it used it's in stun. e.g. SS K, 4P+K, [6]P, 66H+K (CB).

P+K (P+KP) is pretty much Jacky's mid punch launcher (I mean you could say that is 33P, but P+KP induces bound which makes things consistent for all weight classes). I use it solely in stun along with 3P+K~T.

Sometimes I can get away with using it after using 4H+K as keepout, people block it, hesitate, and since I'm running off of muscle memory I input P+KP and they end up getting hit anyway. (Though I really should not be doing that...)
 
well we all know they won't pull a team soul. Team Ninja seems to be pretty consistent with their updates. but my prayer is that Kokoro gets some well deserved buffs. i still feel bad about leaving my girl ;(
 
Ninjaguy446 said:
Lol Helena? She's still really good but they've already taken away her blender. What more do you want?
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I think her frames on hit are to good in general, especially after some of her lows.


Force_of_Nature said:
Why shouldn't you have to adapt? I had to change my playstyle for 5U since TN took away Ayane's FT's and nerfed the effectiveness of 3H+K. It sounds like laziness if you just want to play the same way in every game. If you want to play the old Ein, play DOA4.

I'm intrigued by what TN will be doing with this new patch. Seems a little early for a major balance patch though... so hmm...
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It´s not laziness, it´s about playing the stile that suits you the most so that you can play in a efficient way even if you don´t like a new installment of a franchise for example.

@DrakeAldan

What does RTD´s Mitsu have to do with DOAU5 Rachel? Rachel is without a doubt high or top tier atm and I never played RTD in SCV only once in SCIV.
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
I think her frames on hit are to good in general, especially after some of her lows.
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Sure, if I hit you her frames are good. But that goes for everyone. If I get a CH you should be put in stun. Please, her frames on block are pathetic though. Helena's saving grace are her lows.

Alright, so let's say Helena did have TOO good frames. You want them to nerf a character that DOA characters SHOULD be like? And what would you even nerf? There's nothing left that wouldn't crush Helena. Nerf her lows? Horrible character. Most her stun extenders/starters are her lows. Please, do tell what you want them to nerf. I think you need to adapt against Helena.
 
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JAGTHEGEMINI said:
What does RTD´s Mitsu have to do with DOAU5 Rachel? Rachel is without a doubt high or top tier atm and I never played RTD in SCV only once in SCIV.
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The blender boils down to a 50/50. In my eyes, if everyone else is playing DOA, Rachel's playing SC, and... I mean, I've seen worse.

She's slow (11/13/14). You can't space with her. Her guard breaks are (almost) all false. Her moveset consists entirely of mid punches. People haven't got around to throw punishing her or holding her strings correctly (such as holding CH 1PP... or punishing 1PP at all!)...

Some people would say that Rachel having a 50/50 goes against the open nature of the game, narrowly limiting the opponent's options. But this is just par for the course for us, isn't it? I've played against worse odds and liked it.
 
JAGTHEGEMINI said:
It´s not laziness, it´s about playing the stile that suits you the most so that you can play in a efficient way even if you don´t like a new installment of a franchise for example.
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Then don't complain if you're losing. If you believe your personal style is better than what good tools the game gives you, then you've forfeited the right to bitch about what you can or can't do.

Adaptation is the very core of development in the FGC. If you can't adapt, then everybody's just going to leave you behind, and you'll have no one to blame but yourself.
 
Holy shit! I just played online for the first time! I thought people were kidding when they were talking about it, but, damn...if I still were trying to learn competitive DoA from online, this would drive me to mass murder.

It seems like the lower level people just mash their fastest stuff out...and the higher level people do something that's really good on block or a low that's pretty good on hit...into their fastest stuff. lololol. Luckily, I just stand there and block because I have no clue what's going on. I only lost twice doing that in the span or an hour of thirty minutes (one was to some A+ rank Rachel who subsequently quit out because it came down to the last hit; I guess he didn't like me throwing the shit out of him and using Lei Fang's 1P+K for hilarious results...even at...no ESPECIALLY AT point-blank range. lolololol!).

Hard to tell, though, with lag, whether I'm throw punishing or not. I'd like to assume I am...but you never know with lag and the way people mash.

Also, what are all of Lei Fangs sabakis and which attacks do they do? I thought 236p did mid punches and high punches and 6p+k did mid kix but that shit wasn't working online.
 
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0VincentRayne0 said:
well we all know they won't pull a team soul. Team Ninja seems to be pretty consistent with their updates. but my prayer is that Kokoro gets some well deserved buffs. i still feel bad about leaving my girl ;(
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TN's been great at supporting the DOA5 games, though I dunno what they have against Kokoro. She's like DOA's resident sweetheart aside from Kasumi, though it's obvious which character TN would want you to prefer (i.e. the ninja). At this rate though, she'll probably lose whatever goodness she still has.

LostProvidence said:
Holy shit! I just played online for the first time! I thought people were kidding when they were talking about it, but, damn...if I still were trying to learn competitive DoA from online, this would drive me to mass murder.
It seems like the lower level people just mash their fastest stuff out...and the higher level people do something that's really good on block or a low that's pretty good on hit...into their fastest stuff. lololol. Luckily, I just stand there and block because I have no clue what's going on. I only lost twice doing that in the span or an hour of thirty minutes (one was to some A+ rank Rachel who subsequently quit out because it came down to the last hit; I guess he didn't like me throwing the shit out of him and using Lei Fang's 1P+K for hilarious results...even at...no ESPECIALLY AT point-blank range. lolololol!).
Hard to tell, though, with lag, whether I'm throw punishing or not. I'd like to assume I am...but you never know with lag and the way people mash.
Also, what are all of Lei Fangs sabakis and which attacks do they do? I thought 236p did mid punches and high punches and 6p+k did mid kix but that shit wasn't working online.
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Welcome to DOA online, hope you enjoy your stay! Knives are to the right if you ever feel the need to stab your self repeatedly. I honestly can't take this game seriously online because too much infuriating shit happens to the point that I start playing like a douchebag. So I just use it to try shit out or for practice for the sake of practice.

Anyway, LeiFang's 236P is her CB right? It sabaki's highs if I'm not mistaken. 44P & 6P+K sabaki's mids.
 
LostProvidence said:
Hard to tell, though, with lag, whether I'm throw punishing or not. I'd like to assume I am...but you never know with lag and the way people mash.
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oh, you definitely know when you miss a throw punish... when you get that nice Hi-Counter stun for trying! Ouch.

Speed is definitely something that's always in play... With the stop-start nature of strings and the minor frame loss inherent to lag it's easy to get interrupted. At the same time, once you get the hang of it, easy CH 6Ps everywhere. Just like VF.

I don't think the online is that bad... especially when you try to filter your connections/restrict who you play against... if anything, at the least it completes my matches.

Unlike... some other game...
 
DrakeAldan said:
oh, you definitely know when you miss a throw punish... when you get that nice Hi-Counter stun for trying! Ouch.

Speed is definitely something that's always in play... With the stop-start nature of strings and the minor frame loss inherent to lag it's easy to get interrupted. At the same time, once you get the hang of it, easy CH 6Ps everywhere. Just like VF.

I don't think the online is that bad... especially when you try to filter your connections/restrict who you play against... if anything, at the least it completes my matches.

Unlike... some other game...
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When we play it's alright, because I only invited you to rooms with competent players, i.e. people who actually pay attention to frames. Though I've definitely been hurt by lag in many matches, and Ayane is unfortunately one of the characters that is harmed pretty badly in lag compared to some other characters due to her Integrated Movement system. It does pain me though when I have a "slideshow battle" with one of my friends that I was fine with on vanilla (you probably remember the fellow).

And yeah, despite the netcode I do love that DOA5/U rarely outright drops matches rather than said "other game".
 
DrakeAldan said:
She's slow (11/13/14). You can't space with her. Her guard breaks are (almost) all false. Her moveset consists entirely of mid punches.
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not much different from Tina and Tina spacing is even worst then Rachael
and Tina have guard breaks that are punishable. -_-
and her best spacing move which was guard break 6H+K -4 on block gets nerf to -9 punishable by a low throw
 
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okay, so yeah. rachel definitely needs something done about her. she pretty much has every advantage you can have in the game maybe except speed. which she makes up for with her mixups and that air grab. you can't even think of doing wakeup kicks to keep her pressure off of you and is the only character in the game that can do so. and it's annoying to face her because you know the rachel player is just gonna fish for one of her many tools to launch you in the air to do her braindead air throw combo into her ground hit. she's probably one of the only heavy characters that are actually positive on her guard breaks too. that i've noticed. i'm mainly just annoyed at how i can see that i'm being beaten with little effort on their part.
 
I just spent the last hour running Brad and punishing stupid crap using 2H+KK mix ups into 50/50s. I literally spent entire matches running this move against B ranked players and no one. Not. One. Soul. stopped me from doing it. I don't know whether is lack of understanding behind the character or just playing dumb. Most of the players held instead of slow escaping and blocking, and if they did block or held poorly, I start up the 2H+KK vortex again.

I fought this rather lousy B- player who used Christie, then Helena, then Kokoro. Never bothered to block at all. Kept running strings even after I was blocking all them (seriously, I'm just sitting there and holding block and he keeps running off strings, never considers throwing or what not). When I started punishing with 2H+KK he holds, I run in do 2H+KK again, again he holds, I run in and do 2H+KK again and again he holds. This repeats until about 70% of his health is gone and he finally gets knocked down by the follow up 2H+KK.

Strangely, despite all the abuse I did with this move, I did not receive any rage or hate mail.

In fact, the only hate mail I received was from earlier today playing a Hitomi player. I went two games with this person, one of which I won and the other I lost. On the second match, after I lost I get mail from him complaining about me playing Momiji defensively.

In fact... now that I think about it, most of my mail from other players comes after I lose... not after I win.

Anyway, 4 promotions today. D+ to C+. Huzzah...
 
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