LP
Premium Member
Could you give me you thoughts on Lei Fang? It'd be much appreciated.
Dead or Alive 5 Ultimate
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Could you give me you thoughts on Lei Fang? It'd be much appreciated.
Rikuto
[10] Knight
Leifang takes a moment to really to start up her offense as she lacks any proper "get in" attacks, but she probably has the single most infuriating defense in the game between her sabaki's, parries, advanced holds, and frustratingly evasive movement on a number of her key attacks.
Once she DOES start up, she is very much a momentum based juggernaut. She very easily avoids all wakeup kicks on reaction with her 1P+K, and has an easy time with people on the wall due to her quick offensive hold reseting them into a slump over and over again.
She is bordering somewhere between high-mid to high tier. She has virtually every tool you could possibly want for any situation, her only real want being a fast mid at range which, again, she more than compensates for with how much built-in defense she is packing.
Mamba has been saying Helena isn't good enough from day 1. The truth is, she is one of the deadliest characters in the game by far, and has won the most majors by a landslide.. Personally I believe he simply isn't as comfortable with DOA mechanics as he used to be.
BlackDragon37
[12] Conqueror
What do you think of Ryu?
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Reptile
Soul Calibur V
Rikuto your DOA advice is just pleasing to hear. Can you tell me about Kasumi please?
Windstar
[13] Hero
So some more Momiji thoughts and findings.
So I'm finding that Momiji may not actually have to play a game of trying to get in as much of her mid-range tools are fairly potent stuns and interrupts. She's more or less a character that doesn't really have to play the stun game, so in that sense, she's similar to Kokoro, Hayate and Rig.
The one issue I've found is that she's got a terrible mix-up game, but that may not be too much of an issue as I originally thought. Her defense is average, as is her offense, but she has a lot of quick stuns and a number of fast and easy launchers. All she really needs is to interrupt, or put some light pressure (and she can do this through her three guard breaks or through some evasive stuff) and she's back on the offensive.
What I've found is that 7P is a great move to put some distance on your opponent and get you into optimum range for Momiji's rather good kicks. 4K is fast, safe on block and gets you +6 advantage. H+K and K are both 12 frames and both high, but I like H+K more due to its tracking and higher damage. Meanwhile, K seems to be more a move to create some spacing. Generally, if opponents tend to have a lot of evasive and tech crouch moves, H+K and K are pretty useless, but 4K pretty much covers that except in some rare cases like Lei-Fang's 1P evasion. 4K may even be able to catch Helena's ducking in her stance, but I'll need to check this out for certain.
In Ultimate, many character's standard holds got a major buff in damage. Hi-counter holds being able to due as much as 80 in some cases. I've found that Momiji's 6H and 1H holds for kicks are a bit on the weak end, but I did find something interesting...
If you did Momiji's Combo Challenge then you know that you can get a Power Blow off a low kick hold. I found that you can also get an Tenku P (that's Double Jump P). This leads to a big bounce stun that you can further combo from. Highest damage I was able to pull from this was around 48 to 55 damage using the stand 8P 6PKKP combo. Maybe you guys might find a higher damage combo.
Aside from that, I haven't found any good critical burst combos yet. It seems like her Uzukaze (single jump) PP can force a red critical stun through some combos, but I'm unsure if the opponent can recover in time before P+K.
So I'm finding that Momiji may not actually have to play a game of trying to get in as much of her mid-range tools are fairly potent stuns and interrupts. She's more or less a character that doesn't really have to play the stun game, so in that sense, she's similar to Kokoro, Hayate and Rig.
The one issue I've found is that she's got a terrible mix-up game, but that may not be too much of an issue as I originally thought. Her defense is average, as is her offense, but she has a lot of quick stuns and a number of fast and easy launchers. All she really needs is to interrupt, or put some light pressure (and she can do this through her three guard breaks or through some evasive stuff) and she's back on the offensive.
What I've found is that 7P is a great move to put some distance on your opponent and get you into optimum range for Momiji's rather good kicks. 4K is fast, safe on block and gets you +6 advantage. H+K and K are both 12 frames and both high, but I like H+K more due to its tracking and higher damage. Meanwhile, K seems to be more a move to create some spacing. Generally, if opponents tend to have a lot of evasive and tech crouch moves, H+K and K are pretty useless, but 4K pretty much covers that except in some rare cases like Lei-Fang's 1P evasion. 4K may even be able to catch Helena's ducking in her stance, but I'll need to check this out for certain.
In Ultimate, many character's standard holds got a major buff in damage. Hi-counter holds being able to due as much as 80 in some cases. I've found that Momiji's 6H and 1H holds for kicks are a bit on the weak end, but I did find something interesting...
If you did Momiji's Combo Challenge then you know that you can get a Power Blow off a low kick hold. I found that you can also get an Tenku P (that's Double Jump P). This leads to a big bounce stun that you can further combo from. Highest damage I was able to pull from this was around 48 to 55 damage using the stand 8P 6PKKP combo. Maybe you guys might find a higher damage combo.
Aside from that, I haven't found any good critical burst combos yet. It seems like her Uzukaze (single jump) PP can force a red critical stun through some combos, but I'm unsure if the opponent can recover in time before P+K.
Force_of_Nature
[12] Conqueror
Rikuto's advice is excellent. As for Kasumi's she's an extremely well-rounded character with great quick pokes, strong throws such as 33T or 41236T, along with useful parries, evasive movements, a nice low kick hold and overall some of the best speed in the entire game. You basically can't go wrong with Kasumi whether you want to run an offensive or defensive game. Though to get good damage you're gonna need to set up juggles or hit the launching throw (or 33T if you can get hi-counter). Out of all the ninjas, Kasumi's the only one that can be considered to have rushdown capabilities and she can be mildly vulnerable to good spacing, however getting in with her isn't that daunting if you utilize her 66PP, 9K's, or her Hoshinpo stance for instance. Also, thanks to 9P+K or 7P, she doesn't have to deal with wake-up kicks. Her tracking is decent too with moves such as KK, H+K, P+K, or even 2H+K if there's a bit of distance or you anticipate a high (same for 66H+K but be careful with that move against alert opponents).
In terms of tiers, she ranks near the top and is generally effective against anyone. Her mixup game could be slightly better but her speed and quick pokes more than make up for it.
d3v
[10] Knight
Have you tried watching NinjaCW's Momiji tutorial?
http://shoryuken.com/2013/09/19/dead-or-alive-5-ultimate-momiji-tutorial-by-ninjacw/
Xernuht
[12] Conqueror
From what I've noticed, Momiji's better if you don't try to play the stun game too much. Stun, launch, finish. That said, her damage output is good, so if you can drag the enemy into a critical burst, they will feel it.
I'd be interested to see if it does, even if I don't play against Helena all that often.
Huh. Now I feel really stupid. 55 damage on wake-up punishment. Not bad.
One more good tool that wasn't really mentioned here: 236P. A bit slow, but it causes SDS. If you use the P+K follow-up, it knocks them into another SDS. Both leave your back turned, but if you do 4K~P+K, I believe you get a near-guaranteed CB.
Windstar
[13] Hero
Momiji has a hidden hold input 64H. Not sure why its there, but check it out, holds mid punches. I'm not what else it's good for.
Rikuto
[10] Knight
I have no idea why that exists. If I had to venture a guess I would say it was left in the game by accident.
I don't see any reason why a person would want to go through the trouble of doing an advanced hold that does less damage with no definable advantage to the wakeup situation.
I don't see any reason why a person would want to go through the trouble of doing an advanced hold that does less damage with no definable advantage to the wakeup situation.
JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
Why is Ein not good in this game... In DOA4 he was! good but now... Damn.
Rikuto
[10] Knight
I've heard that before and it makes no sense to me. Ein is great in this game. Azuma effectively became unpunishable, giving him even greater bullying powers at range.
The only noteworthy nerf I have found is his 4K being slowed down a couple of frames.
2P is +1 on NH. There are a lot of non-VF strikers who would kill for that.
The only noteworthy nerf I have found is his 4K being slowed down a couple of frames.
2P is +1 on NH. There are a lot of non-VF strikers who would kill for that.
EyeofCalamity
[10] Knight
Did someone say EIN? lol i though of zwei immediately after seeing that
JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
It´s not only the 4K nerf, but 6P+K. And 46K should give more than plus 1... In DOA4 it gave plus 5!
He has trouble in close range against sidestepping opponents. 66PK should track or he needs a 6K2K variation like Hitomi that tracks.
Rikuto
[10] Knight
You shouldn't be using 6P+K in any situation outside of stun. Why would you anyway? Azuma.
46K being only +1 is more than fair. Ein is not a slower character and does not need a bucket of frame advantage to work with. Furthermore, the move itself covers a good bit of distance at a good speed, while crushing lows. In a game with no throw breaks, giving too much frame advantage to that attack makes it a bit too dominant.
Wavedash into 4P string is great for killing step at range. Steps forward as you attack.
46K being only +1 is more than fair. Ein is not a slower character and does not need a bucket of frame advantage to work with. Furthermore, the move itself covers a good bit of distance at a good speed, while crushing lows. In a game with no throw breaks, giving too much frame advantage to that attack makes it a bit too dominant.
Wavedash into 4P string is great for killing step at range. Steps forward as you attack.
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0VincentRayne0
Faith
i play offline casuals with bloodburger almost every weekend. he's a cool dude.
JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
I used 6P+K almost all the time in DOA4 as a whiff punishment move and first move to go into a stun mix up and it worked wonders at times. Now it´s almost useless out of stuns...
And you coulnd´t throw break in DOA4 too and 46K was still far from being overpowered even if it gave +5 on block.
And 4P... really? I don´t think most Ein players will use that move on high level. Just not good enough.
And you coulnd´t throw break in DOA4 too and 46K was still far from being overpowered even if it gave +5 on block.
And 4P... really? I don´t think most Ein players will use that move on high level. Just not good enough.
Windstar
[13] Hero
I hadn't, but thanks for showing me.
Honestly, I haven't had much success playing her defensively and I haven't really thought much in the way of defeating turtlers. Most of my success comes at pushing frame advantage and whiff punishment. The few cases where I've had successful pokes I do aim for those combos. All of which are useful and do a good bit of damage.