Zass wins A tourney? Lets Study this.

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Wow. I've been playing Zas since SC4 came out, but this guy's making me completely rethink my gameplan.

Awesome videos, thanks for sharing. You rock, Omega.
 
That's really what I like about SC4... Not Only Kilik, Amy, Yoshi and Voldo can win tournaments. We had champions from all the world playing as Siegfried, Talim, Nightmare, Maxi and why not even Zazalamel. In my opinion Zaz is top tier (not WTF Tier like Kilik) and much much better character even than Siegf and Nightmare but to realize its game you have to be a truly believer, like Omega, who never felt in his journey to extract the real outstanding game that no one could find.

-Stryker-
 
Omega is an amazing player dont get me wrong, but it seems like he has a "tournament" playstyle, meaning he only uses those low-rish/high reward moves, only Zas isnt that safe to begin with. I would like to see how he incorporates B:K, 4K and 6B+K into his game.

And that Sets wasnt too great, for the greatest in the DR. No JFs and he kept going for the B+K command throw instead of pressuring. Sets can out poke Zas and her CHs are massive.
 
SC3 is where Zas was low tier. Yet Omega took him to the finals of USA Nats. Did this with NTSC X 66A+B~G and mits VC spam going all around. With ridiculously overpoweder characters like X, sisters, asta, mits all over the place.

Now idiots pop up and try to convince Omega that Zas is low tier and his opponents are morons. Unbelievable.
 
Zasalamel is low tier, lol. And that Setsuka could be a bit better. Terribly unsafe, no mid punisher and pretty bad oki (unless you like running around chasing a roller) are just enough to make someone low tier when some characters are their strongest just getting you on the ground with mindgames.

If 4A was mid and Zas had a move to make him BT manually, then one could argue that he was MID.




There are hardly any "idiots" in this forum, now go away before I delete your posts for flamebaiting.
 
Artilust: You seem not to have understood anything I have wrote except the "idiots" part. Oh well. You DO realize that dominicana SC players are among the best in the world, do you?

On a side note Zas CH game is among the best in the game as well as RO. Omega is a great player and showed how Zas must be played. He will be at Evo or Nats this year and will prove his point there. You, on the other hand, continue to delude on how your losses are character based. But wait, you're seconding Hilde arent you?
 
Belial said:
Artilust: You seem not to have understood anything I have wrote except the "idiots" part. Oh well. You DO realize that dominicana SC players are among the best in the world, do you?

On a side note Zas CH game is among the best in the game as well as RO. Omega is a great player and showed how Zas must be played. He will be at Evo or Nats this year and will prove his point there. You, on the other hand, continue to delude on how your losses are character based. But wait, you're seconding Hilde arent you?
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Well it seems that you know your way around Zas, if it isnt the best CH game of SC4 is one of the best, and it seems that people here like to critizice everything instead of learning from the vids, have i ever critizie Any vids? nooooo, why because whe you see everything from outside is easy, now when you are the one playing, getting all the presure from the other player, sometimes you miss punishment and other stuff, belial thanks for the compliments man it seems you know your way around SC.
 
Omega said:
Well it seems that you know your way around Zas, if it isnt the best CH game of SC4 is one of the best, and it seems that people here like to critizice everything instead of learning from the vids, have i ever critizie Any vids? nooooo, why because whe you see everything from outside is easy, now when you are the one playing, getting all the presure from the other player, sometimes you miss punishment and other stuff, belial thanks for the compliments man it seems you know your way around SC.
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People fail to realize that this game is about mind games, and you can never play the same against everyone...
Nando is fucking scary...but because you guys are turtling hard...some players think you're not playing you characters right.

If you pay attention you can see how both players are trying to gain the upper hand over the other.

Anyway if you haven't played a high level fight yourself you can't appreciant those vids.
 
KingAce said:
People fail to realize that this game is about mind games, and you can never play the same against everyone...
Nando is fucking scary...but because you guys are turtling hard...some players think you're not playing you characters right.

If you pay attention you can see how both players are trying to gain the upper hand over the other.

Anyway if you haven't played a high level fight yourself you can't appreciant those vids.
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Ufffff right on the spot, you guys have my respect now.
 
Qshimitsu said:
Zas is low tier. But......bad oki? I disagree.
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TERRIBLE OKI!

66A+B, 66BB - If they stay down
1A - if they have slow reaction to lows
run in 4B+K - can be rolled

What else?

When I say terrible, I dont mean he has nothing, but not to my level of comfortability. I think he is stronger pressuring them into WAKEUP, but as far as OTG..no sir.



Belial said:
Artilust: You seem not to have understood anything I have wrote except the "idiots" part. Oh well. You DO realize that dominicana SC players are among the best in the world, do you?

On a side note Zas CH game is among the best in the game as well as RO. Omega is a great player and showed how Zas must be played. He will be at Evo or Nats this year and will prove his point there. You, on the other hand, continue to delude on how your losses are character based. But wait, you're seconding Hilde arent you?
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Hilde is my current "3rd" as you would see if you hover over the pic. X is my secondary. Thats neither here nor there.


My point being, say what you have to say dude, but lets keep it classy. Give others the same decency of disagreeing, without the fear of starting an argument because you may say something tacky and rude. All that talk of "idiots and morons" is uncalled for. Thats all. I never said Omega wasnt a good player. Losses based on character are where you get your stats for bad matchups, seeing as Zas is pretty low, that makes all the difference in who gives him harder times, so I dont know where you were attempting to go with that.


Zas does have some nasty CH, but when most of them are CH DEPENDANT, and UNSAFE on block not to mention SLOW on startup, where does that leave Zas?
 
Zass is a complete mind game character.
He does small chip damage all through the fight, until the opponent guesses wrong or does a mistake then comes most of his damage.
He requires patience, dedication and a great defense.

Interms of oki, personally I use 4B+K or 66BB mix that up with some lows. It's good enough.

I use several other characters, and to me Zass is still the one that requires the most skill from me to use.

That's why I appreciate the guys that use him, I have said it before I will say it again Zass has the options. But he requires a tremendous amount of skill from the player to win with him...Plain and simple.
 
Artilust said:
TERRIBLE OKI!

66A+B, 66BB - If they stay down
1A - if they have slow reaction to lows
run in 4B+K - can be rolled

What else?

When I say terrible, I dont mean he has nothing, but not to my level of comfortability. I think he is stronger pressuring them into WAKEUP, but as far as OTG..no sir.
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Oki/wakeup is all part of ground pressure, and Zas' is fairly good. I wounld't really classify them as two completely separate things.

-4A+B combo-ender can't be teched after.

-2B4
-66BB
-66A+B
-3B4

-Jump over rollers into BT B+K/2K

-6B+K wakeup trap is nasty.

These are all viable tools. If you want to see terrible oki, go play Lizardman.
 
ROTFL 236 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. Im not a fan of chip damage.

3B4 you say? What does that do? Imma have to try that one out.


Ive been using 2B4 a ton recently.



What if Zas still had his 1AA from SC3? And lets not forget the auto-Gi B+K...those were the days.
 
His oki is only really good after certain moves. After general KNDs most of it's rollable thus why most say his oki is horrid.

Qshi: I'd add in 22_88B as part of that oki since all you listed is mid. I use it more often for oki than as a sneaky low personally. After a BT [B+K] I mix up with 22_88B and 66BB. No risk low-mid mixup at that range that cant be rolled. 66A+B's unsafety makes me hesitate to mixup with instead but I will one day.
 
KingAce said:
Zass is a complete mind game character.
He does small chip damage all through the fight, until the opponent guesses wrong or does a mistake then comes most of his damage.
He requires patience, dedication and a great defense.

Interms of oki, personally I use 4B+K or 66BB mix that up with some lows. It's good enough.

I use several other characters, and to me Zass is still the one that requires the most skill from me to use.

That's why I appreciate the guys that use him, I have said it before I will say it again Zass has the options. But he requires a tremendous amount of skill from the player to win with him...Plain and simple.
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Yeah, this is my opinion on Zas as well. I actually used him (along with Setsuka) as my main on SCIII, and I initially ignored him in SCIV because they changed him so much, and I wasn't really getting into him enough to adjust to his completely new playstyle, so I mained Setsuka instead and decided to switch my Main Character and Secondary character around.

Unfortunately, over the last several months my joints have been getting progressively worse (they've been bad for several years, but the last year has gotten a lot more severe). Basically, I've got a full-body joint problem which so far I don't have a decent diagnosis for (multiple doctors have tried to find out why all the joints in my body pop and crack anytime I move them).

But anyway, enough about that. My point was that, due to the immense pain I'm in, I can't go all-out with the controller as much or as often as I used to be able to, which is a severe problem with a character who has as ridiculous a command list as Setsuka, since most of her controls are far more straining then a lot of the other characters. Due to this, I decided to pick up Zasalamel again some months back (I've used a bit of everyone but I was mostly using Setsuka), and ever since then I can honestly say that I'm far more dangerous with Zas then Setsuka. I actually prefer this Zasalamel over SCIII's version now.

Zasalamel is a perfect example of a technical character, in my mind, since you actually need to have a lot of skill, patience, and defence to use him, just like you said in your comment above. I can honestly say I haven't seen many people using him well, even though I'm sure there's good Zas players, and a lot of this is likely due to the fact that Zas can't rely on abusing various mix-ups all the time and being overly aggressive. In order to use Zas effectively, you really have to make the opponent mess up, pulling them into your traps and then taking advantage of the ability Zas has to control the distance between himself and his opponent. Though I do still use Setsuka anytime my painkillers are giving me a little relief, I also find Zasalamel to be a much less painful character to play, due to the defensive/calm nature of his style, and also due to the fact that his move list is nowhere near as unneededly complicated as Setsuka's.

It's true that Zasalamel doesn't have a lot of low attacks, and at first glance he appears weaker, slower, and less safe then many other characters, but in the hands of a player who knows what they're doing he can use his tactical control and distance management abilities to use the enemy's own strength and aggression against them. Against a lot of people, all I need to do is wait for them to try and attack rush me and then I can trap them in a chain of various pull and push moves. The trick with Zasalamel once you've got a hold of your opponent is knowing which attacks have good priority after you've pulled or pushed the enemy into specific positions. Together with his ability to control the distance between himself and his opponent, as well as pull them off guard, Zas also has very effective throws, in my opinion.

EDIT: Oh, and I just thought of something else I wanted to add now. It's good to see that other people have discovered how to develop a good gameplan with Zasalamel as well as myself, since I actually had to work all of this out myself without any guidelines (though I tend to always play like that), so I wasn't sure how many other people had found a decent way to use him. I'd watched several tournament matches from around the world on youtube, and all of the Zasalamel players were really not very good.

I also happen to find f/f/A+B (66A+B) to be an effective move, btw, especially as a punisher against an agressive opponent when I need to quickly close the distance and cause damage to an opponent whose making a mistake. The move is also a good choice if the opponent is blocking low a lot, something which I know how to force/trick my opponent into doing.
 
Shoryu_Magami said:
Yeah, this is my opinion on Zas as well. I actually used him (along with Setsuka) as my main on SCIII, and I initially ignored him in SCIV because they changed him so much, and I wasn't really getting into him enough to adjust to his completely new playstyle, so I mained Setsuka instead and decided to switch my Main Character and Secondary character around.

Unfortunately, over the last several months my joints have been getting progressively worse (they've been bad for several years, but the last year has gotten a lot more severe). Basically, I've got a full-body joint problem which so far I don't have a decent diagnosis for (multiple doctors have tried to find out why all the joints in my body pop and crack anytime I move them).

But anyway, enough about that. My point was that, due to the immense pain I'm in, I can't go all-out with the controller as much or as often as I used to be able to, which is a severe problem with a character who has as ridiculous a command list as Setsuka, since most of her controls are far more straining then a lot of the other characters. Due to this, I decided to pick up Zasalamel again some months back (I've used a bit of everyone but I was mostly using Setsuka), and ever since then I can honestly say that I'm far more dangerous with Zas then Setsuka. I actually prefer this Zasalamel over SCIII's version now.

Zasalamel is a perfect example of a technical character, in my mind, since you actually need to have a lot of skill, patience, and defence to use him, just like you said in your comment above. I can honestly say I haven't seen many people using him well, even though I'm sure there's good Zas players, and a lot of this is likely due to the fact that Zas can't rely on abusing various mix-ups all the time and being overly aggressive. In order to use Zas effectively, you really have to make the opponent mess up, pulling them into your traps and then taking advantage of the ability Zas has to control the distance between himself and his opponent. Though I do still use Setsuka anytime my painkillers are giving me a little relief, I also find Zasalamel to be a much less painful character to play, due to the defensive/calm nature of his style, and also due to the fact that his move list is nowhere near as unneededly complicated as Setsuka's.

It's true that Zasalamel doesn't have a lot of low attacks, and at first glance he appears weaker, slower, and less safe then many other characters, but in the hands of a player who knows what they're doing he can use his tactical control and distance management abilities to use the enemy's own strength and aggression against them. Against a lot of people, all I need to do is wait for them to try and attack rush me and then I can trap them in a chain of various pull and push moves. The trick with Zasalamel once you've got a hold of your opponent is knowing which attacks have good priority after you've pulled or pushed the enemy into specific positions. Together with his ability to control the distance between himself and his opponent, as well as pull them off guard, Zas also has very effective throws, in my opinion.

EDIT: Oh, and I just thought of something else I wanted to add now. It's good to see that other people have discovered how to develop a good gameplan with Zasalamel as well as myself, since I actually had to work all of this out myself without any guidelines (though I tend to always play like that), so I wasn't sure how many other people had found a decent way to use him. I'd watched several tournament matches from around the world on youtube, and all of the Zasalamel players were really not very good.

I also happen to find f/f/A+B (66A+B) to be an effective move, btw, especially as a punisher against an agressive opponent when I need to quickly close the distance and cause damage to an opponent whose making a mistake. The move is also a good choice if the opponent is blocking low a lot, something which I know how to force/trick my opponent into doing.
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LOLLLLLLLLLL, sorry guys i dont usually do this but i had to, this guy is hilarius.
 
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