Is Create-A-Soul Important?

[chobek]

I voted no to troll this whining thread

LOL

I voted yes.... but I have to admit, I stick on the word important a bit.
Personally important, sure... my main motivation for buying the new game, yep........ but I keep thinking about my friends reaction when she saw a picture of one of my CAS from SCV. She said, without a second of hesitation “video games are time wasters.”

 

[VILARCANE]

I voted yes.... but I have to admit, I stick on the word important a bit.
Personally important, sure... my main motivation for buying the new game, yep........ but I keep thinking about my friends reaction when she saw a picture of one of my CAS from SCV. She said, without a second of hesitation “video games are time wasters.”

Haha, happy to see Chobek ARE still around :)
I was looking at your blog the other day to check for new bizarre stuff or old CAS.
What is a time waster depends on one's life philosophy : some might argue work is a time waster, others sports, others 3D modelling of TROLLEYS, others would even dare say that life is a time waster. Is waste something useless or pointless, certainly not, waste has many uses in the real world.
So, in hindsight, what would be the point of spending countless hours of our precious lifetime, as some of us did, to create fake digital characters which (or who) are just a string of 1 and 0 coming to life on a flat screen ?
Well for me the point is/was/will be in order of magnitude :

-have fun !
-lower stress level
-nurture creativity (alongside drawing, writing, etc.)
-show to and play with my kids who love CAS
-show and play with the community

Downsides of CAS :
-time flies, especially for a perfectionist like me
-if you do tons of CAS, you rarely play with them
-drains a lot of energy/creative juices at "higher" level of craftsmanship

So i am both thrilled and frightened about SC6 :)

 

[chobek]

Haha, happy to see Chobek ARE still around :)
I was looking at your blog the other day to check for new bizarre stuff or old CAS.
What is a time waster depends on one's life philosophy : some might argue work is a time waster, others sports, others 3D modelling of TROLLEYS, others would even dare say that life is a time waster. Is waste something useless or pointless, certainly not, waste has many uses in the real world.
So, in hindsight, what would be the point of spending countless hours of our precious lifetime, as some of us did, to create fake digital characters which (or who) are just a string of 1 and 0 coming to life on a flat screen ?
Well for me the point is/was/will be in order of magnitude :

-have fun !
-lower stress level
-nurture creativity (alongside drawing, writing, etc.)
-show to and play with my kids who love CAS
-show and play with the community

Downsides of CAS :
-time flies, especially for a perfectionist like me
-if you do tons of CAS, you rarely play with them
-drains a lot of energy/creative juices at "higher" level of craftsmanship

So i am both thrilled and frightened about SC6 :)

I know what you mean on SC6 .... I’m not thrilled just yet.... I worry that the CAS seem too similar to SCV.... and I see A few missing elements (admittedly I have not poured over the info coming out) Some missing elements could be taken care of with DLC... but ,for example, elf ears, will they still be available as objects even with the elf body? I used them for a lot more than ears..... and I am crossing my fingers for the raccoon tail....
but back to the topic....
Perspective is a funny thing .... I’m sure to someone who is serious and competitive about the game, focusing on the custom design feature might seem superficial. ....And I can see their point. I am not a very good fighter, so I get what I can from the game through CAS.
Even in the very specific CAS world there was infighting between creators of OC and recreators ..... if I remember correctly Anime characters were specifically looked down upon by some....
So, I give up.... I will make CAS because I enjoy it .... I will share them here if it’s fun.... and try to be mindful that things are important to people in different ways.

...and SCVI might be a very different creature.
The nature of this board could drastically change this time around just because of the character sharing feature... tips and tricks might not be as necessary.

 

[VILARCANE]

"...and SCVI might be a very different creature.
The nature of this board could drastically change this time around just because of the character sharing feature... tips and tricks might not be as necessary."

This might be a blessing or a curse, i don't know either because i am like a little kid with SC6, looks so promising in its shiny new UE4 attire...i realllly want to discover the game new CAS editor all by myself (i hate spoiler videos or gameplay videos and usually give a wide berth to them)...so your thoughts are my thoughts exactly, and i sincerely look forward to seeing your SC6 CAS, just like Brucege's, Windup's, Gatsu's and so many others talented ones out there, the old and new alike !

I think the first attempt i'll make will be to try and recreate one of my most iconic CAS in the new editor/engine, and see if that's even possible (you mention elf ears and racoon tail, damn i used those a lot as well :). If any of you can think of one CAS in particular who caught you off guard (in a positive way), let me know...
I also have some specific ideas in mind, but more in the RC department tbh (knowing it could be impossible for a number of reasons, starting with the face presets which are pivotal to good-looking RCAS).

I will at first enjoy the game and explore possibilities, so don't expect me to post anything soon after release, then again i am totally capable to do a 360 on this stance once i have the game, some people will remember how many times i'd say i quit CASsing in my main thread :)

Those are MY 8 ways of the CAShido :
-Concept (fresh idea and design choices, or at least a twist or two, ExEq, stickers and textures can be very helpful to achieve the wow effect)
-Creativity (experiment, trial and error, exploit the bugs !)
-Coherence (all the items below + name and thumbnail must be working for not against the concept)
-Choice of Weapon Style and effects
-Choice of Race (new), Face and Voice
-Choice of Equipment and Colors (matching colors over different pieces of Equ, don't oversaturate, avoid clipping unless it serves a purpose)
-Choice of ExEq (=extra items, strenghthen the concept, combine, experiment)
-Choice of Stage and lighting (for pictures or vids)

 

[franman]

I believe that Create-A-Soul helps rather than hinders the competitive community.

I think it's more of a double-edge sword; in a way the ppl who believe CaS is important help take part in keeping the game alive with their wallets, but among them there are those who don't care about the originals thus neglecting the main part of the story.

What if CaS was taken away from Soul Calibur? would SC die? Something to consider here is Mortal Kombat Armageddon which had custom characters, they removed that feature later on in MK9 and MK10 and are more successful in sales w/o custom character creation.

MK is known for fatalities in the same way Soulcalibur is known for CaS at this point. Take fatalities out of MK and you'll be a bit closer in comparison to Soulcalibur without CaS.

Dunno how many ppl would agree on that, I certainly don't. I see Soul Calibur as more of a 3D fighter with weapons. If fatalities were taken out of MK, then the closest at best is probably Tekken.

 

[Ardenwolf]

I think it's more of a double-edge sword; in a way the ppl who believe CaS is important help take part in keeping the game alive with their wallets, but among them there are those who don't care about the originals thus neglecting the main part of the story.

What if CaS was taken away from Soul Calibur? would SC die? Something to consider here is Mortal Kombat Armageddon which had custom characters, they removed that feature later on in MK9 and MK10 and are more successful in sales w/o custom character creation.

Dunno how many ppl would agree on that, I certainly don't. I see Soul Calibur as more of a 3D fighter with weapons. If fatalities were taken out of MK, then the closest at best is probably Tekken.

Mortal Kombat has NEVER been widely known for character creation nor did it manage to draw on such a large fanbase for that feature. It losing it is not comparable because unlike CaS it never had the fanbase or support. Soulcaliburis KNOWN for CaS and it's character creation and has a huge fanbase. The two games have completely different circumstances and comparing a game for which the fans didn't embrace the new feature to one which it was embraced and acquired a fan base not a fair comparison.

CaS is more intimately linked to soulcalibur than mk and as such losing it would be a bigger deal.

 

[VILARCANE]

I think it's more of a double-edge sword; in a way the ppl who believe CaS is important help take part in keeping the game alive with their wallets, but among them there are those who don't care about the originals thus neglecting the main part of the story.

What if CaS was taken away from Soul Calibur? would SC die? Something to consider here is Mortal Kombat Armageddon which had custom characters, they removed that feature later on in MK9 and MK10 and are more successful in sales w/o custom character creation.

Dunno how many ppl would agree on that, I certainly don't. I see Soul Calibur as more of a 3D fighter with weapons. If fatalities were taken out of MK, then the closest at best is probably Tekken.

I mean no offense but...
Could you please quote the bits in your messages where you actually agreed with anything that was said here ? :) :)
That would at least keep you busy and away from disagreing for a while, which is how i feel when i read most of your replies (i did quote the few things we agreed on, mind you)
Feel free to disagree with my very biased opinion of course, i still appreciate the debate, but feels like you are spitting in the wind sometimes,

I know it is not at all ill-intentioned and a nice distraction from 3D modelling (if you have anything else in 3D to show us, i am still curious, as i only use Krita and a pen tablet (i bet i could easily do a very good-looking TROLLEY too with Krita, it's just that...oh well, forget it).
Don't you have a cool 3D dragon or character for me to comment ? Don't sense any irony in this request, there is none to be found, i am as candid as can be...
I could also post one my latest drawings here if you wish (temporarily if need be), because i use some of my drawings for inspiration for new CAS sometimes, even though drawing is much more time consuming, especially full-color digital paintings...

Mortal Kombat has NEVER been widely known for character creation nor did it manage to draw on such a large fanbase for that feature. It losing it is not comparable because unlike CaS it never had the fanbase or support. Soulcaliburis KNOWN for CaS and it's character creation and has a huge fanbase. The two games have completely different circumstances and comparing a game for which the fans didn't embrace the new feature to one which it was embraced and acquired a fan base not a fair comparison.

CaS is more intimately linked to soulcalibur than mk and as such losing it would be a bigger deal.

Totally agree !
My kid loves SC but right now he is crazy with injustice 2 (we organized a couch tournament for his birthday last week with prizes and all). He never liked MK. When I was a teenager, MK was mesmerizing to me, because of the fatalities(as a coin-op arcade). I think the series has evolved technically but the animations and input precision is still wonky and it is 2D/3D, cheesy and full of bad taste and design choices. Only a few of the characters appeal to me, and I never heard of the character creation tbh. SC cast is much more fleshed out and original.
I loved SCIV chara and costume designs, graphics and solo modes(tower of souls anyone ?), this game struck me silly just like the dreamcast soul calibur did, arcade perfect with extra contents galore, SCV was a letdown for solo and graphics but had a much deeper CAS editor to save it from total and utter disgrace...again, just my opinion, but CAS in 5 saved the day for me, or i would have sold it.

 

[franman]

Mortal Kombat has NEVER been widely known for character creation nor did it manage to draw on such a large fanbase for that feature.

What are you basing this on? Any evidence suggesting that Kreate a Fighter didn't have such a fan base?

 

[Ardenwolf]

What are you basing this on? Any evidence suggesting that Kreate a Fighter didn't have such a fan base?

None what so ever. There's practically nothing about it anywhere. Which is the point. I've only EVER heard it brought up as a part of an MK game that did horribly and blamed for killing it and you trying to pretend like MK creation had even one tenth the attention CaS does.

You sound like my friend that seems to think CaS is pointledd and that MK doing badly in the game with character creation is representation that the same is true for Soulcalibur and it would do better without.

 

[acefrost]

Essay:
The ppl who believe CaS is important help take part in keeping the game alive with their wallets

I think you hit the nail on the head with this line, people dislike pay2win mechanics in games but paying extra for cosmetics is a fine practice that is completely player choice. At the end of the day how much money the game makes decides how long the game gets support and how much budget it's sequel will have if it gets one. An example of this is DOA5LR which initially sold super bad but because the game has literally $1000's worth of cosmetic dlc, a poorly selling game that came out over 3 years ago is still getting support and is currently on it's 7th season pass and has a soon to be released sequel
Personally I agree that CaS does take away from the competitive community of sc (based on anecdotal evidence) as while I do understand the mechanics of this series as far as frames and movement go, I would never ever go to an offline/online tourny purely because I can't even use an edited costume let alone my CaS character so this for me makes competitive sc pointless.
tl;dr more sexy dlc outfits = more profit

 

[VILARCANE]

I checked kreate a fighter... many choices but extremely limited creative manoeuvering room...KaF RCs i saw on youtube : barely recognizable, laughable gfx but bear in mind MKA is a 2011 ps2 game. Tekken 5 customization kind of freedom if you get me. Which is why not many cared because as shallow as the mk lore...

 

[Assassinate]

I would buy SC even without CAS but would be extremely disappointed by the lack of it. After you beat the story and modes there nothing left for me to do. I don’t go online because I suck and I hate people. But I might play more online because it was fun in the Beta.

 

[mokamoka827]

What if CaS was taken away from Soul Calibur? would SC die? Something to consider here is Mortal Kombat Armageddon which had custom characters, they removed that feature later on in MK9 and MK10 and are more successful in sales w/o custom character creation.

This comparison makes absolutely no sense to me.
For one, you're not considering the quality of the character creator itself, which was absolutely abysmal. The character creator was pretty ugly, quite frankly and there were a number of limitations. The clothing selection wasn't the greatest as the textures were all shiny and weird and just about everything looked like it was made out of the same material, and you had to obtain a ridiculous amount of in-game currency to be able to unlock a decent amount of equipment, with none of it being unlocked for free. There was very little in terms of facial customization as well, at least if you want to make a normal human, as there was just one human face model per gender. On top of all that, you could only make one character at a time, if I recall correctly. Even back then when I was only a kid, I felt that it was pretty lazily slapped together and the devs didn't put nearly as much care into it as Project Soul did with SC3's system, which came out a year before.
It was a poorly handled character creator that was, as far as I know, poorly received, so fans didn't like it and it didn't return in following games, which rendered it generally forgotten about by fans, for the most part.
Since Soulcalibur 3's character creation mode was well-received by fans, it returned in all the following games, making it a staple of the series, therefore making it far more influential and important than MKA's character creation mode, which failed to attract nearly as much of a fanbase.

 

[PiperAtDawn]

On top of all that, you could only make one character at a time, if I recall correctly.

Yep, you could only make one character per profile, which meant if you wanted to have multiple characters on the same save, you would have to make a new profile for each, which in turn meant you had to go and unlock/buy everything again. I remember being pretty frustrated with this when I was a kid and it made me gravitate back to SCIII's system even though I was pretty big into MK back then and even after I got hit with SCIII's dreaded save corruption.

Not only that, but with how the fighting style creation worked, you could very easily make an overpowered or underpowered character. I recall one of the characters I made had a combo that did 30% damage, and all I had to do was mash X. And, if I remember correctly, you could take these characters online.

 

[franman]

You sound like my friend that seems to think CaS is pointless and that MK doing badly in the game with character creation is representation that the same is true for Soulcalibur and it would do better without.

That is true I think Soul Calibur will be better off w/o CaS. And it's not just CaS, I don't think any custom fighters should mix in with any established fighting game.

@mokamoka827 & @PiperAtDawn thanx for letting me know, I didn't realize Kreate-A-Fighter was that bad when it looked good on paper or Youtube for that matter.

 

[chobek]

That is true I think Soul Calibur will be better off w/o CaS. And it's not just CaS but any custom fighters in any established fighting game because they are competing for popularity.

Popularity?
(... and I may have seen it wrong but didn’t this post initially have something to do with integrity of the game? )
I am not trying to pin you in a corner, but I don’t understand your concerns.
If custom creation in some way altered the engine of the game I would get it. To me I feel like an analogy would be....
If I thought racing stripes were tacky on cars, and decided no one else should get them because it would bring down the image of my car. The function of a car with stripes is the same as one without.
I don’t know if my comparison is 100% fair... but I also think that simply removing an option will not add substance.
.....

 

[franman]

The way I see it Soul Calibur is about the main original cast. To prefer a CaS over an original is like forgetting what part of the main story is about.

 

[mokamoka827]

The way I see it Soul Calibur is about the main original cast. To prefer a CaS over an original is like forgetting what part of the main story is about.

And? That doesn't actually harm the game or the developers in any way. It affects literally nothing and I fail to see how it's your concern whether or not someone prefers their own character over the main roster.

 

[PiperAtDawn]

But CaS isn't replacing any of the main cast. They may have the moveset of the original (one of the downsides to me for CaS since I can't really have the weapon/style I'd want my CaS to have, but as seen in MK:A it would be very easy to bust this), but at the end of the day the main cast is still going to be there and be part of the story, while the customs are there for those that want to make characters, for whatever purpose that might be (I use it to make my OCs for SC while lamenting not really having any styles that match up with what I envision them having :P). I may have my main OC/custom using Xianghua's weapon/moveset, but I'll still play Xianghua because I enjoy her moveset, aesthetic, and to a degree her story and personality. If they take out CaS for the next I'll be sad, but I'll still love the game as long as it has good mechanics and story. I've loved this series since SCI came out on Dreamcast when I was 5, and I won't stop loving it even if they removed a feature I really like.

 

[chobek]

I understand your personal commitment to the story.
However, I consider my relationship with the game to be personal ...even if there is community play. I feel I would be overstepping my bounds if I expected others to have the exact same focus.
Maybe I feel this way because I am old .... and my experiences with video games predate online interaction. But I dislike the idea that there is only one decided upon way to properly experience SC.
....and trust me if you saw my creations you would hate me..... I bet I am exactly the type of player you would detest. I specifically enjoy bending if not breaking the world created. I make crazy characters and I play with my husband.... and that is satisfying.
I do indulge in the world and story of SC when I play in story mode ...... but I also enjoy going off on a tangent .

And.... Even if I hadn’t violated the game personally.... Kratos and Yoda and Link and...
I think it takes a lot of mental work to make the guest characters homogeneous elements of the larger story. The creators are all ready having a bit of fun with this universe.