She definitely can RE cancel into WNC vs Ivy's A+B.
You know, I went in on a read on the numbers and I was wrong. She can still do it. Just goes to show just how god damn slow Ivy's A+B is.
Also, god, I wish people would stop saying things like, "this change doesn't hurt MY playstyle but maybe others". To be fair, if you are playing Talim and you DON'T use RE and RE cancelling, you're doing it wrong. And you should almost 100% lose vs characters like Ivy, Asta, Geralt, Sieg, X, Cervantes and so on.
IF... you are still winning in spite of not using RE, it's either because your opponents are not very good players, they simply don't know the Talim matchup, or because you happen to be a God at guessing right every time, lol. The RE nerf isn't the death of Talim by any means, but if she ends up falling to the lower tiers this patch, I would not be very surprised.
You act as if I don't use it at all. I just don't use it as much as some other Talims. I use it mostly as a player option than a match-up option, Ivy and Asta being exceptions where I'll use it more liberally for obvious reasons. I use it as a post-GI option a decent amount, which I do think was why she was given it in the first place, since she is very easy to GI.
That said, I uh, disagree. RE canceling is just another tool to be utilized, and I don't think it's the end-all be-all of success for Talim, because that would imply that Talim literally had nothing else, which is a gross overstatement, and that's coming from someone who doesn't really think that highly of Talim pre/post patch. Never really put her above mid-tier at best, while some players seem to think she's in top 5, somehow. I don't put her that high because I don't find her threatening. Front-turned, she has no threatening lows or throws, and mediocre guard damage. 8B is the scariest thing you can block against Talim, in my opinion, because she isn't limited to the linearity of her stances, did 9% guard damage, and is +2. That is a big, opinionated side-discussion though.
That all having been said, I do not claim to be a great Talim, and I've said before, and I'll say it again, I would probably be a much better Sophie than a Talim, because I tend to play her like she's a good footsie character.
As far as 6K goes. The move is kinda bad. It's unsafe, and doesn't knock down. Being at +8 is cool and all, but there's little reason to throw this out when you have 66A and 2B as go-to i16 punishes. and both of those are saaaafe. 2B is +12 on hit and puts you BT. 66A is stance uniterruptible on hit. 6K is miserable by comparison. Maybe if it knocked down on CH, something else I've hoped for since Sc2, it'd have more use.
I never said it was good, I just said I liked it, haha. As a whole, I have been trying to avoid stance shifting normals more, and 6K allows me to gain large advantage without relying on stances, which I find are too linear to be throwing out too often. That is the downside to both 66A and 2B -- admittedly, you know too well how much I praise BT Talim. Still, variety is the spice of life, and it helps break the linearity of Talim and confuse people.
SC 66BB is a bigger deal than people think right now, but it's also not really a compensation for anything RE related. I'm putting up a video showing the main reason why in a bit. On LH she gets massive damage and potential RO carry now, but again, good luck hitting backstep guard with and i22 SC 66B, lol.
I admittedly have not experimented with it much. Mostly got caught up in how nice it is to be able to rematch people over and over again.
Still think 66B is too easy to avoid to ever really hit anyone without it being a whiff punish. Wish it were faster so it was a better whiff punish/backstep tool.
I always forget it can lethal hit. Every time it happens I get less damage than I do otherwise because it just surprises me each time. "W-ha-- oh shit, that's right this thing can lethal hit! What do I do!? What's the combo!? I forget, it's been months since I've hit this! **Drops combo**"
I am surprised none of Talims lethal hits have been changed or anything -- they are all so bad, save for one or two. 44A still perplexes me, since the move is not designed at all to crush highs -- again, it's a move designed for a 2D game with extended hurtboxes and hit limbs in a game with no extended hurtboxes. *Shrugs*
This patch has me upset for other reasons. Like I've been going on and on about how WNC NEEDS to have vertical immunity. But I gave up on that pipe dream and figured "eh they must have their reasons for not doing that" (@Destinizish can vouch for it if he's even on the forums these days)
But they DID do it... for Siegfried of all characters, lol. Like wtf? His side spin stance was already super good and even dodged Talim's horizontal CE at times.
You're never going to get that. Stop. Hahaha.
I wish too, but it won't happen. I wish I could WNC over step in situations for varied options.
I also mentioned Talim's side step hurtbox before. (For a test, @Skiegh try playing X and stepping in between of Asta's 4AB on block, then try with Talim. Or better yet, have Voldo do Mantis crawl Head towards K, and mash K repeatedly for the donut rolls. Try stepping between them as Astaroth and then as Talim). And again I was like, "Welp it is what it is. Talim gets clipped by launchers sometimes cause her hurtbox is too wide when stepping. Nothing they can do about that"
You know, I always felt like I got clipped by verticals a lot. Since I mostly use Talim against other players and just use other characters for lab work, I wonder if that's why.
