Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

SSfox said:
Don't say that please. I made peace with Harada i don't wanna hate on him all over again like when he added that "thing" in T7.
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I want Tekken x Street Fighter but considering how successful Tekken 7 has been and still rising plus the lengthy development hell TxSF is in I honestly think this is the only way that work would be released to the public.
 
Starringrole said:
The PS4 input delay reminds me of how long we've been waiting for Cass.

In all seriousness though, is it just me or is the input delay really bad on PS4? I literally feel like I have to play the game in a completely different way on there. I've been mainly playing on Xbox and I don't feel this?
Its to the point playing the game is not fun on PS4, that or I'm just a complete moron with a PS4 controller and the only delay that's happening is my brain?

Every time I've went on there to play with my friends it feels like things I could normally do take so long to come out.
I know input delay is a thing, but on PS4 unless its just me seems to be ridiculously bad.
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Many have considered the PS4 version to be the weakest version for online play. It has the lag that hurts input buffering which can result in dropped combos and punishers, plus the slow matchmaking. I’d arguably say it would be best to seek out the PC version for the best netcode but online is currently dead in there right now.

How I would rate the netcode from the best to the worst: PC > Xbox > PS4.
 
Speaking about netcode, Bamco and Capcom had build a company few months ago that will be mainly focus on research and development about Netcode in fighting game to try to improve this aspect on FGs. It will probably not affect any of the actual games like SC6 or T7 but we may say how it will affect futures fighting game installments of both Bamco and Capcom.
 
FluffyQuack said:
We don't know exactly how different builds are handled, but we get some small hints from game assets. There is a config file with version numbers showing the path of the project file where everything gets compiled/cooked from, and that shows that each different release is a separate branch on their version control system. I'm betting the first two patches (before 2B) were based on the launch version of the game (that way they avoid adding anything related to DLC characters). And then we get the December patch with 2B which must have been based on a completely different branch.

I think that's how the leak happened. When setting up the new branch for releasing the patch with 2B (which was probably based on some "master" branch containing everything they work on), they were careful enough to ensure it didn't contain any assets (as in models, textures, animations, etc) related to other DLC characters, but there were still references to the characters within the game code (either they thought that was obscure enough that no one would find them, or maybe they didn't know there would end up being strings referencing the characters in the compiled code/cooked assets).
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Well, your hunch as to how the cooked builds are spun off the working/development build seems perfectly plausible to me, but that would still not account for why values for any of these characters would even be in any version of the development build at that time. Maybe as recent as a few months ago, that might have seemed plausible, but all indications are that season 1 content has only recently been completed (if indeed Cassie is done now). There's just no way that in December they had six additional characters anywhere near the level of completion that they actually needed to have call values in a build--and the longer it takes them to get season 1 fully released, the more silly it becomes to entertain the notion that they had even partially useful/testable versions of the season 2 characters last December.

FluffyQuack said:
I'm betting when the leak happened there was a bunch of yelling happening within Namco/Dimps with someone demanding "Make sure this doesn't happen again!" And their solution was to start using arbitrary IDs and names for future DLC characters. Maybe they did preliminary work implementing those DLC characters so they knew they were obfuscated already in case they would forget to do that when implementing them later.
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That actually provides more evidence for the plant theory, honestly. Don't get me wrong--I'm sure there were recriminations at Namco following the first leak with Amy and Cassie. And then I think they looked at their twitter feeds and thought maybe it wasn't the worst thing in the world. The codenames actually all but seal it for me: if the purpose behind them was to obscure which characters they were working on, why choose such obvious names? Furthermore, certainly the easier thing would have been to just run the code through a script to find references to anyone who shouldn't be there, rather than add temporary values that would need to be swapped en masse in a later build when they wanted everyhting properly labelled. And again, it would be exceedingly easy to avoid making that mistake twice in a row. If, on the other hand, your objective was to tease a few characters to get free viral press without using their name in such a blatant way that you would have no plausible deniability that you ever intended to add them (if season 2 got scrapped), codenames are exactly what you would use.

As I said, not exactly open and shut, but I think the balance of the evidence strongly points to this "leak" having been an organized affair. And if our intuitive sense of Namco is that they don't have their shit together enough to be manipulating anyone, we can square those two things by reminding ourselves of this: even if I am right and they pulled the wool over the eyes of the fanbase, they'll probably still find a way to make it blow up in their faces. :) Indeed, that was what spurred me to dust off this theory and mention it again: because I think their planting the notion of the second season that early might have been a bad idea, if they were just going to go silent for 10 months thereafter (as will be the case if they wait until after Asia league to announce it).
 
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Rusted Blade said:
Well, your hunch as to how the cooked builds are spun off the working/development build seems perfectly plausible to me, but that would still not account for why values for any of these characters would even be in any version of the development build at that time. Maybe as recent as a few months ago, that might have seemed plausible, but all indications are that season 1 content has only recently been completed (if indeed Cassie is done now). There's just no way that in December they had six additional characters anywhere near the level of completion that they actually needed to have call values in a build--and the longer it takes them to get season 1 fully released, the more silly it becomes to entertain the notion that they had even partially useful/testable versions of the season 2 characters last December.
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The references I found to the DLC characters are very natural to be among the first things they implement for the characters (the references are new entries to internal character and moveset lists). The timing is still suspicious, but if they started development around that time then it makes sense.

Rusted Blade said:
That actually provides more evidence for the plant theory, honestly. Don't get me wrong--I'm sure there were recriminations at Namco following the first leak with Amy and Cassie. And then I think they looked at their twitter feeds and thought maybe it wasn't the worst thing in the world. The codenames actually all but seal it for me: if the purpose behind them was to obscure which characters they were working on, why choose such obvious names? Furthermore, certainly the easier thing would have been to just run the code through a script to find references to anyone who shouldn't be there, rather than add temporary values that would need to be swapped en masse in a later build when they wanted everyhting properly labelled. And again, it would be exceedingly easy to avoid making that mistake twice in a row. If, on the other hand, your objective was to tease a few characters to get free viral press without using their name in such a blatant way that you would have no plausible deniability that you ever intended to add them (if season 2 got scrapped), codenames are exactly what you would use.
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I'm not sure if they have an easy way to search through all text in the project. There are assets of so many different formats and the character IDs (which are just numbers) are so generic you'd find them everywhere.

I agree the way they codenamed the characters is really bizarre. If their objective is to obfuscate the names, then codenames like REPTILE and STONE are extremely bad (unless they reference other characters than Lizardman and Rock, in which case it's more evil than bad).

Maybe we'll be lucky and one of the next patches will feature some new files related to the season 2 characters. If they do that, then it's pretty clear they're real characters.
 
FluffyQuack said:
The references I found to the DLC characters are very natural to be among the first things they implement for the characters (the references are new entries to internal character and moveset lists). The timing is still suspicious, but if they started development around that time then it makes sense.
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Well, the reference would be the first thing added once they have hit a level of development where the characters are being added into the build. But work on the individual assets not created inside the engine suite itself would begin long before that. As far as we've had any indication, those beginning stages may not have even started for season 2 characters even at our present time. Even if it has by now, I can't imagine that in December six additional characters were already at a level where the assets were being composited into what we call a 'character' and thus (while still rudimentary) those assets were nevertheless "in the build" such that call values like those you found would be added. That's the part of the timing that least adds up for me.

FluffyQuack said:
Maybe we'll be lucky and one of the next patches will feature some new files related to the season 2 characters. If they do that, then it's pretty clear they're real characters.
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I will say this much for them: I'm sure that the plan always was for them to follow throw on these six characters and if I had to place a bet, I would suspect that that is still the plan today. I think it's just that, being Namco, they are in no big hurry.
 
I randomly wanted to do some speculation on how Namco could be changing Cassandra's moveset in SC6. First of all, I compared Sophitia in SC4 and SC6, and Amy in SC4 and SC6.

Sophitia:
  • Overall, super similar to her moveset in SC4. As far as I can tell, she didn't lose a single move, and she doesn't get that many new moves either.
  • Her AA and BB got new one hit each.
  • The kick in 2BK is new (the kick animation I feel I recognize. From Lost Swords or SC5?)
  • 6B has received a bunch of new second-hit moves.
  • A bunch of moves have their input changed.
  • Some new attacks in Soul Charge.
Amy:
  • A ton of new moves overall, especially in the A category (but she still retains most of her old A moves).
  • A bunch of new/changed stuff in the "while running" category (didn't check in detail if she lost a lot of moves here).
  • The rose gimmick.
  • She still shares a few throws with Raphael (though they did at least slightly tweak the animation on one of them to make it fit Amy better). Instead of replacing them, they added new throws to her moveset.
  • AA is AAA (and fully re-animated).
  • BB is BBBB.
  • A bunch of old moves have new input.
What I predict for Cass:
  • AA and BB will probably receive 1 new hit (please don't end in RE...)
  • The moves I think are most likely to get replaced are 2BB and 236A. Those moves are very similar to Sophitia's 2BB and 236A.
  • I could see them changing the properties of 8B+K to make it stand out compared to Sophitia's variant (it already looks different animation-wise).
  • I think most of her moves will carry over without changing. She has so many moves which make her really stand out: 6B, 6AAA, 99B, 4BBA, 44B, 236B, 1A, etc
  • 88B will probably become her A+B move (unless they think its range is too short, in which case they'll probably make a new one).
  • They better not change her idle stance. They messed with Raphael's beautiful dance in SC4. Don't mess with Cassie's hops!
  • She'll probably get some kind of weird gimmick. I feel this is the biggest question mark. There's one visual effect file which implies she might have some kind of powered-up state, so maybe she can build up to this by using special attacks.
  • She will get at least one new butt attack.
  • Her CE has a 50% chance to be about bashing the enemy around with her shield and 50% chance to be about bashing the enemy around with her butt.
  • They'll likely do some big tweaks to her face mesh (similar to how they re-designed the faces for Amy, Ivy, and a few other characters).
  • They'll add her SC4 1P as bonus costume.
I'm surprised Namco didn't release Cass before Amy as suggested was the plan based on datamining. I think they have more reason to keep Cass the same (considering she's evolved quite a bit through SC2, 3, and 4) than Amy (who had a very small moveset in SC3, and still shared quite a bit of stuff with Raphael in 4).

What are other people's thoughts on how Namco will change Cassandra's moveset?

Rusted Blade said:
Well, the reference would be the first thing added once they have hit a level of development where the characters are being added into the build. But work on the individual assets not created inside the engine suite itself would begin long before that. As far as we've had any indication, those beginning stages may not have even started for season 2 characters even at our present time. Even if it has by now, I can't imagine that in December six additional characters were already at a level where the assets were being composited into what we call a 'character' and thus (while still rudimentary) those assets were nevertheless "in the build" such that call values like those you found would be added. That's the part of the timing that least adds up for me.
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I imagine a lot of assets they would want to test in the engine as quickly as possible. For instance, if they're working on the model, they might want to see how it renders within UE4 itself. And I think it makes sense that one of the first steps is to create a new character entry which is using assets from another character as placeholder. But well, I haven't seen anything which confirms how they're handling it, so it's all speculation.
 
You all are correct that I could be completely wrong. A season 2 could be announced anytime and anywhere.

But Tekken and DBFZ had Season 2's announced at EVO or world tour finals. Imo EVO is the biggest possible place for an announcement due to the eyes on the game.

Just gotta find ways not to give in to total despair while time passes by
 
LisaK said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1153323251906465793
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Random reminder that last year's EVO had SoulCalibur 6 as an exhibition tournament day 1, yet Namco decided to save the SC6's announcements (which revealed Astaroth and Seong Mi-na) to just before the Tekken finals started.

Surely they'll have the SC6 announcement happen after the SC6 finals this time, but who knows.
 
FluffyQuack said:
Sophitia:
  • Overall, super similar to her moveset in SC4. As far as I can tell, she didn't lose a single move, and she doesn't get that many new moves either.
  • Her AA and BB got new one hit each.
  • The kick in 2BK is new (the kick animation I feel I recognize. From Lost Swords or SC5?)
  • 6B has received a bunch of new second-hit moves.
  • A bunch of moves have their input changed.
  • Some new attacks in Soul Charge.
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Just for the sake of completeness on Sophitia's end since she's the best point of reference for Cassandra's changes:
  • Angel Step/TAS shortcut added through 6AA and AAA
  • TAS AB added
  • 6AB changed to 6BB and added 6BA
  • 6AA added
  • B1 BBB changed input to 1B
  • 236B as well as TAS B given new second hit inputs (B during hit)
  • Rising A+B has been removed
  • 2B 8B AK has been removed and replaced with 22/88 BAK
  • 8B+K remapped to 8A+B
  • Rising B+K changed to a two hit attack with the shield and a kick
  • 8A+K and its follow-up inputs remapped to 8B+K
  • Hold 4aB moved to 4A+B
  • Hold 8B moved to A+B
  • Hold 4K remapped to 3K
  • Majority of side step variant attacks for Angel Step removed
Most of these changes seem to be intended to add more fluidity to Sophitia's moveset and help players capitalize on punishment, zoning and poking. The addition of 6BB, 6BA and 6AA as well as Pyrrha's 22 BAK are proof of that. Also, a lot of Sophitia's 8WR moves propel her towards the enemy. Based on this, I think we'll see Cassandra get a move or two from Patroklos (maybe one of his flips, but since Sophitia already has her own flip attacks they may have strayed away from making duplicate moves like that) and maybe some of Pyrrha Omega's AS/TAS B follow ups. To differentiate her BN would do well to make her shield a bigger part of her moveset, especially if she's keeping her sword. Also hoping her 6AA comes back.

Essentially, I'm foreseeing Cassandra with her more brawler moveset from SCIV with an emphasis on shield attacks and less emphasis on punishment. She's still an Alexandra so her MO will still be about watching, waiting and stabbing people in the crotch, BUT I think she will play more aggressively, in the same way Sophitia does now.
 
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As I pretty much expected, there are no surprises to be had on the SoulCalibur VI Original Soundtrack. Unless you count that they were apparently too cheap to spring for a 4-disc jewel case, instead supplying two 2-disc jewel cases. I find that mildly amusing (and a little bit sad). I'm still happy to finally have all the music, don't get me wrong, but if we were thinking there was going to be another stage based on the soundtrack, well... no evidence found.

For those of you familiar with the BGM rip by reddit user Azynterrus -- and I think FluffyQuack shared it? -- here's a comparison tracklist:

Code: 
0001 - Main Menu                                3-01 Destiny in Flux
0002 - Main Menu                                3-02 Destiny in Flux - Steel Echo
0003 - Main Menu                                3-03 Destiny in Flux - Deep Reflection
0004 - Chronicle of Souls Theme                 2-03 The Chronicle of Souls
0005 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-05 The Libra of Soul
0006 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-06 The Hunt for the Fissures
0007 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-07 A Bitter Decision
0008 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-08 Into the Fray
0009 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-09 Time of Trial
0010 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-10 Chasing the Beast
0011 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-11 Endless Quest
0012 - Creation Theme                           4-16 Soul Engraver
0013 - Museum Theme                             4-17 Healing Winds - Reminiscences
0014 - Character Select Theme                   1-01 The Brave New Stage of History
0015 - Libra of Souls Creation Theme            3-04 Defiant Soul
0016 - Credits                                  2-17 In Memory - To Those Who Shed Blood
0017 - Scene BGM - Battle                       4-01 Pure Anger
0018 - Scene BGM - Panic                        4-02 Fate at Its Limit
0019 - Scene BGM - Threat                       4-03 Inevitable Clash
0020 - Scene BGM - Foreboding                   4-04 Agony
0021 - Scene BGM - Inspiration                  4-05 Approaching Hope
0022 - Scene BGM - Serene                       4-06 Peace Within
0023 - Scene BGM - Drama                        4-07 A Lone Soul
0024 - Scene BGM - Restoration                  4-08 Gentle Breeze
0025 - Scene BGM - Majesty                      4-09 At the End of a Journey
0026 - Scene BGM - Adventure                    4-10 Solemn Vow
0027 - Scene BGM - Somber                       4-11 Fate Against Her
0028 - Scene BGM - Unease                       4-12 Emerging from the Abyss
0029 - Scene BGM - Confidence                   4-13 B for Bravery
0030 - Scene BGM - Peaceful                     4-14 Days Gone By
0031 - Scene BGM - Hope                         4-15 A Graceful Soul
0032 - Scene BGM - Resolve                      2-07 Fated Soul
0033 - Scene BGM - Ming Empire                  2-08 In Full Bloom
0034 - Scene BGM - Maxi's Theme                 2-09 Man of Fortitude
0035 - Scene BGM - Hellfire                     2-12 Crux of Evil
0036 - Scene BGM - Azwel's Theme                2-11 A Zealous Herald
0037 - Scene BGM - Grøh's Theme                 2-10 Fidelity in Shrouds
0038 - Chronicle of Souls - Character Prologue  2-05 Presage of Destiny
0039 - Chronicle of Souls - Character Prologue  2-06 Foreshadowed by Darkness
0040 - New Challenger                           1-16 A Worthy Opponent
0041 - Battle Start                             1-17 Onslaught
0042 - VS Lose                                  1-18 Ferrum Recipere
0043 - VS Win                                   1-19 A Laurel Crown
0044 - Chronicle of Souls Episode Start         2-04 Prelude
0045 - Libra of Souls Random Encounter          3-12 Unforeseen Challenge
Code: 
0014 - Character Select Theme                   1-01 The Brave New Stage of History
0040 - New Challenger                           1-16 A Worthy Opponent
0041 - Battle Start                             1-17 Onslaught
0042 - VS Lose                                  1-18 Ferrum Recipere
0043 - VS Win                                   1-19 A Laurel Crown

0004 - Chronicle of Souls Theme                 2-03 The Chronicle of Souls
0044 - Chronicle of Souls Episode Start         2-04 Prelude
0038 - Chronicle of Souls - Character Prologue  2-05 Presage of Destiny
0039 - Chronicle of Souls - Character Prologue  2-06 Foreshadowed by Darkness
0032 - Scene BGM - Resolve                      2-07 Fated Soul
0033 - Scene BGM - Ming Empire                  2-08 In Full Bloom
0034 - Scene BGM - Maxi's Theme                 2-09 Man of Fortitude
0037 - Scene BGM - Grøh's Theme                 2-10 Fidelity in Shrouds
0036 - Scene BGM - Azwel's Theme                2-11 A Zealous Herald
0035 - Scene BGM - Hellfire                     2-12 Crux of Evil
0016 - Credits                                  2-17 In Memory - To Those Who Shed Blood

0001 - Main Menu                                3-01 Destiny in Flux
0002 - Main Menu                                3-02 Destiny in Flux - Steel Echo
0003 - Main Menu                                3-03 Destiny in Flux - Deep Reflection
0015 - Libra of Souls Creation Theme            3-04 Defiant Soul
0005 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-05 The Libra of Soul
0006 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-06 The Hunt for the Fissures
0007 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-07 A Bitter Decision
0008 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-08 Into the Fray
0009 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-09 Time of Trial
0010 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-10 Chasing the Beast
0011 - Libra of Souls Map Theme                 3-11 Endless Quest
0045 - Libra of Souls Random Encounter          3-12 Unforeseen Challenge

0017 - Scene BGM - Battle                       4-01 Pure Anger
0018 - Scene BGM - Panic                        4-02 Fate at Its Limit
0019 - Scene BGM - Threat                       4-03 Inevitable Clash
0020 - Scene BGM - Foreboding                   4-04 Agony
0021 - Scene BGM - Inspiration                  4-05 Approaching Hope
0022 - Scene BGM - Serene                       4-06 Peace Within
0023 - Scene BGM - Drama                        4-07 A Lone Soul
0024 - Scene BGM - Restoration                  4-08 Gentle Breeze
0025 - Scene BGM - Majesty                      4-09 At the End of a Journey
0026 - Scene BGM - Adventure                    4-10 Solemn Vow
0027 - Scene BGM - Somber                       4-11 Fate Against Her
0028 - Scene BGM - Unease                       4-12 Emerging from the Abyss
0029 - Scene BGM - Confidence                   4-13 B for Bravery
0030 - Scene BGM - Peaceful                     4-14 Days Gone By
0031 - Scene BGM - Hope                         4-15 A Graceful Soul
0012 - Creation Theme                           4-16 Soul Engraver
0013 - Museum Theme                             4-17 Healing Winds - Reminiscences
Code: 
00xx - 1st Half of Opening Cutscene from SC     2-01 Eternal Tales
00xx - 2nd Half of Opening Cutscene from SC     2-02 Hell on Earth
00xx - Kilik/Grøh Cutscene from SC              2-13 Fate's Crossing
00xx - Entering Ostrheinsburg Cutscene from SC  2-14 To Overcome Fate
00xx - Inferno Final Battle from SC             2-15 The Evil Flame
00xx - Inferno End Cutcene from SC              2-16 Conviction

00xx - Geralt Cutscene from Libra of Soul       3-13 An Unexpected Visitor
00xx - Grøh/Azwel Cutscene from Libra of Soul   3-14 Avenging Sword
00xx - Azwel Final Battle from Libra of Soul    3-15 Doomsday
00xx - Azwel End Cutscene from Libra of Soul    3-16 Thwarted Ambition
00xx - Grøh Final Battle from Libra of Soul     3-17 The Nameless Ordeal
00xx - Grøh End Cutscene from Libra of Soul     3-18 Destiny Unfolds

Edit: Added tracklist compare between the BGM rip and the full soundtrack.
Edit 2: Fixed ridiculous formatting mishap, not sure what caused the mass linkage.
 
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