1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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MAILBOXARSON99 said:
I personally think Tira should be at least mid. She has a fair degree of speed, and some very powerful combos in Gloomy Stance.

Yoda can actually be fairly useful. I don't really think he gets the credit he deserves. After all, half the game's combos and attacks don't work on him, and he has some nice punishers himself. He can also be a great counterpick against some characters, like Nightmare, Raphael, and Rock. Picture this: a Yoda that can impact. He already has an auto-impacter that allows for force grapples, which can ring out if I recall correctly. Also, it seems like he could be very successful with 3G, mainly because he doesn't really have to worry much about impacting high attacks.
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yoda sucks
 
Millionz said:
LOLLLLL
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All it takes is an i10~i12 attack and nearly all of Siegfried's mixup game is laid to waste. The only real way for Siegfried to avoid such disruption is to use 88(B) to get SRSH K (duck high punishers) and (B) to get SBH B (duck high punishers) or SBH K (disrupt mid punishers). However, I don't doubt that there are mid punishers out there that will disrupt SRSH K.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
All it takes is an i10~i12 attack and nearly all of Siegfried's mixup game is laid to waste. The only real way for Siegfried to avoid such disruption is to use 88(B) to get SRSH K (duck high punishers) and (B) to get SBH B (duck high punishers) or SBH K (disrupt mid punishers). However, I don't doubt that there are mid punishers out there that will disrupt SRSH K.
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Yeah, so many characters in the game have i10 moves.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
All it takes is an i10~i12 attack and nearly all of Siegfried's mixup game is laid to waste.
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hmmm, not true. trust me, i have to play against sieg almost constantly because japanese people, for whatever reason, have a huge hard-on for that guy.

( * Top: Cass, Kilik, Yoshi, Voldo, Algol, Setsuka
* Top Mid: Sophie, Mitsu, Seig, Amy, Hilde, X, Cervy,
* Mid: Taki, Lizardman, Ivy, The Apprentice
* Bottom Mid: Raph, Nightmare, Tira, Asta, Maxi, Yun,
* Low: Zas, Mina, Talim, Rock, Vader, Yoda)

i'm going out on a limb to say that rock isn't bottom tier, i wouldn't put him higher than bottom mid though. i would also put nighty and asty at mid. i still can't believe i'm seeing setsuka at the top. then again, the "good" sets' i've played against have all been pretty tame (she's not popular her). i won't deny she's got some great mid options that give her way more range that they look like they do, i just don't see how they put her higher than top mid seeing as how she lacks a decent low game.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
I don't know about you, but the people I've been practicing with can clear through any Siegfried in local with near perfects.
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I really hope you bring these people to a biweekly then, because 7-11's Sieg has placed tops in most of the tourneys here in MI. I'm really anxious to see these universal i10 moves and magic one hour Algol's that rape everything.
 
The key to fighting any Siegfried is to not let him attack, and if he does attack, just 236B him right afterward or something. Almost any character's AA or BB will rape his stances. Even his i11 SSH K and SCH K can be punished prior to attack, assuming the Siegfried uses an attack to enter the stance. AA with many characters will disrupt manual entry into SCH, and a number of characters have the tools to punish SSH mixups (Amys 6B) prior to i11 SSH K or the auto-backstep SSH A+B. His closest thing to a safe attack in my opinion is a:g:A, which can be ducked. 3B is really only useful if it's a guaranteed hit, so as to get the counterhit combo from it. Of course, Siegfried's usefulness is elevated greatly with the ability to impact, but from my experience, many top/upper-tier characters, such as Mitsurugi, make this ability ridiculously difficult.

I still don't see how Misturugi isn't top tier. He has great damage, range, and speed. 2KB makes Siegfried's mixup game look like a fucking joke.
 
Lol You are doing it wrong Mailbox arson... Siegfried is a beast. Your posts are hilarious. Learn to play the character before you talk about him.
 
OffbeatNinja said:
Lol You are doing it wrong Mailbox arson... Siegfried is a beast. Your posts are hilarious. Learn to play the character before you talk about him.
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OOOOOH some HARDCORE Forum talk from the Ryan "Offbeat Ninja" Ward, I'm not in this lmao, i just felt that some instigation was needed, No offense to either person
 
Sup Mailbox,

We played a few matches about a week ago. No offense intended, but there are things that you could work on to improve your Sieg. =D I'm garbage, so I wouldn't recommend coming to yours truly for advice. However, BeatoffNinja, Sigel v2, PyroZamfir, EscapedJail, and Felix007 all post here, frequent live, and have monster Siegs. Find them and leech their shit. He has a lot more options than you think.
 
MAILBOXARSON99 said:
The key to fighting any Siegfried is to not let him attack, and if he does attack, just 236B him right afterward or something. Almost any character's AA or BB will rape his stances. Even his i11 SSH K and SCH K can be punished prior to attack, assuming the Siegfried uses an attack to enter the stance. AA with many characters will disrupt manual entry into SCH, and a number of characters have the tools to punish SSH mixups (Amys 6B) prior to i11 SSH K or the auto-backstep SSH A+B. His closest thing to a safe attack in my opinion is a:g:A, which can be ducked. 3B is really only useful if it's a guaranteed hit, so as to get the counterhit combo from it. Of course, Siegfried's usefulness is elevated greatly with the ability to impact, but from my experience, many top/upper-tier characters, such as Mitsurugi, make this ability ridiculously difficult.

I still don't see how Misturugi isn't top tier. He has great damage, range, and speed. 2KB makes Siegfried's mixup game look like a fucking joke.
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I know this doesn't really address the main point of your post, but you're doing it wrong if Mitsu is in range for 2KB. :D
 
Demarcus said:
OOOOOH some HARDCORE Forum talk from the Ryan "Offbeat Ninja" Ward, I'm not in this lmao, i just felt that some instigation was needed, No offense to either person
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Yeah ryan can be a jerk sometimes but he's pretty good at siegfried and it's not as simple as AA and BB when he's in his stances.
 
Please dont take my previous post as super serious, but cmon dude you make it sound like Sieg is a sitting duck that cant do anything. That is just not the case. Add me on PSN/live and Ill try and help you out and show you some of his options. He is actually quite safe if you play him a certain way.
 
StrayDogStrut said:
However, BeatoffNinja, Sigel v2, PyroZamfir, EscapedJail, and Felix007 all post here, frequent live, and have monster Siegs. Find them and leech their shit. He has a lot more options than you think.
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Serious good advice, and it's hard for me to say that about anything involving online. Since I play against Sigel and Pyro frequently, I can say for a fact that they can teach you some monster stuff that you don't know about yet.

a:GA and a+kA2A > Mitsurugi's anti step options and 2KB. Also, if you're getting hit by 2KB a lot, then, I suspect, you haven't stopped to figure out how to beat it. Mitsu HAS to be in your face when he does it, it has no range and it's possible to step it early. A simple backdash will ALWAYS make 2KB whiff, and if the B hits you standing (which every now and then can happen), Mitsu is punishable on hit, I wouldn't be surprised if you got a 3B. 2KB risk v. reward is not in Mitsu's favor when fighting against Sieg.

I was gonna write a tl;dr post about how and why Sieg > Mitsu, but honestly, that's what practice mode is for. Just know that Mitsu's anti-step blows now, Sieg has waaaay better step coverage tools then Mitsu, same damage, better tech traps,
and in general Sieg players are placing better then Mitsu players all over the world for a reason. Jesus, I mean, I'd trade 2KB for a+kA if it meant I could keep Relic/Mist, which is really where the beef of Mitsu's game is now. (Which also, incidentally, is just as unsafe as Sieg's stances, if not moreso!)

Mitsu is very strong but he has waaay too many holes to be top tier. There's simply too many characters better then him.
 
Outside of Mist/Relic (I haven't really tested done in depth testing on those moves), I think Mitsu's tracking is fine. There are certainly characters who have it worse imo.
 
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