1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

[ChaCha]

Tier list?

Custom's aren't illegal in my book.

1- Changing the outfit/hair and weapon on a MAIN CHARACTER, changes nothing in standard VS mode. It's totally legal and also encouraged.

2- Custom characters aren't transferable to other machines, so they aren't tourney legal for that reason (you'd have to remake on every machine, and simply no one will allow that). While many petty arguments take place over hitboxes and range with certain character styles... the overall difference *TO ME* is neglegible. The differences they make are usually more of a hinderance than a help and I welcome playing vs them.

that's about it.

cha cha

 

[Tiamat]

what safe moves might you be talking about?

 

[KowtowRobinson]

was playing a good nightmare the other day and was pretty damn surprised at how many really fast, safe moves he can use for pressure, and the goddamn double kick from that running stance RO's from all over, even flat on the ground

sure he's so low?

Yes, we're sure lol. I'll rap with you about some anti NM sometime soon man.

 

[KowtowRobinson]

Tier list?

The official rule is that customs ON the original character are legal, while original custom characters are not. This is due to the hitbox issues with large/small characters. So if you put your custom ON astaroth, it would be legal.

 

[Shimetsu]

I'm just happy that Yun-Seong isn't low tier even though he hasn't been my main since SC2.

 

[Minerva_SC]

People who say nightmare is low tier are bad, simple as that. After fighting Beta's NM HUNDREDS of times I'm learned the majority of his bullshit, and I still lose to him sometimes. Fighting NM is like fighting Zas for the first time, your gonna get knocked around and rung out from the center of the stage, and your gonna cry, and your gonna contemplate suicide, but eventually he just becomes "good" and not "broken".

 

[Tiamat]

nightmare is "OK"

His primary strengths are range, okizeme, whiff punish (any kind), low block punishing, and wall combo/RO ability. His primary weaknesses are speed and safety.

 

[hobgoblin]

Tier list?

what kowtow said.
and we should wait after the update and some big tournaments to get a better idea

 

[hobgoblin]

Hes simple to beat noobs/scrubs with, not simple to be expierienced players with... but argue if you want... whatever

as with everyone else.
as a yoshi player i think hes up there on the tiers, but not above everyone else. and noobs cant play as him worth crap.
lizzy is above most on the tier list too. deffinitly

 

[Klizza]

Merged other tier thread in. No point in having 2 threads about the same thing out there.
It's sad to see someone put Hilde right above ass tier, so sad.

 

[HumanJerky]

Just like he says. In every game there is that one guy that plays that one character that everyone thinks is complete crap and yet for some reason completely dominates them. I agree completely with Firegod's thoughts on character choice. Maybe we shouldn't worry so much about picking a "top tier" character, because like he said, the character can be the greatest in the game, but if you cannot identify with the movement of it, its gonna do you no good.

Just pick a character you understand the flow of. I have played against Siegfrieds and Nightmares that seemed faster than my Misturugi or Cassandra, and not because of frame rates, but because those players have a great flow with their characters. Just find someone you can wrap your brain around.

Agreed. Tiers, to me, have always been a polite suggestion, not raw fact. It has more to do with the skill of the player and how well "linked" he is with his character and not how great that character is.

 

[sebiel]

I always thought tiers were a discussion of character advantage given that the players of equal (very high) skill levels.

If one player is better than the other, character selection doesn't matter.

If both players are of equal skill, character selection shouldn't matter, but it's hard to make a balanced game...

 

[Cabbie]

I'm kinda mixed where Taki belong in ranking. She's very solid with her PO mixups and good rush down but I wonder how well she will fare once people get used to her tricks.

 

[BatousaiNori]

LoL Nori.... yea hes easy but I didnt see you do shit with yoshi.... sooo easy at lower level at high level not that easy... Hence the reason you dont see yoshi's winning every tourney... Hes simple to beat noobs/scrubs with, not simple to be expierienced players with... but argue if you want... whatever

I apologize if I didn't impress you with my online play. If I'm judged by Online play, then by all means, I'm trash at this game and everybody is better than me. However, offline, I'm sure some people down here can vouche for me that I'm kinda decent at this game. Like I said, hardcore Yoshi players will vouche he's hard to play. I listed ways he can win easily and he has an even EASIER time vs Veterans because they respect his mixups. Yoshi is by no means broken but the original question was his ease of use, and it's there. And people aren't winning tournaments w/him "yet". Look at the last TX tourney we had. Agustin got 2nd w/Yoshi. Link's brother, David, got 5th w/Yoshi. You will see lots of Yoshis because of his extremely rewarding mixups. You just won't see that online because well.........it's online;) I'm a Cass player and will have no shame telling you she's dirt easy to play.

 

[RedDjinn]

I apologize if I didn't impress you with my online play. If I'm judged by Online play, then by all means, I'm trash at this game and everybody is better than me. However, offline, I'm sure some people down here can vouche for me that I'm kinda decent at this game. Like I said, hardcore Yoshi players will vouche he's hard to play. I listed ways he can win easily and he has an even EASIER time vs Veterans because they respect his mixups. Yoshi is by no means broken but the original question was his ease of use, and it's there. And people aren't winning tournaments w/him "yet". Look at the last TX tourney we had. Agustin got 2nd w/Yoshi. Link's brother, David, got 5th w/Yoshi. You will see lots of Yoshis because of his extremely rewarding mixups. You just won't see that online because well.........it's online;) I'm a Cass player and will have no shame telling you she's dirt easy to play.

I wasnt talking about your online play or you as a player in general just saying you didnt show much even if it was online... anyways i'm tired of argueing about this... yea i'll run right down to texas and ask how good you are as soon as you run to japan and ask how good i am ;) lol yoshi is cake to play with you win i lose... now on with the discussion...

P.S. I got 5th with yoshi too bout 3 weeks ago at at a tourney here in TN still dont think hes easy to be good with... you def have to know him inside and out... just let opinions differ and go about your way Nori lol leave it alone ho!~! :)

 

[SWBeta]

People who say nightmare is low tier are bad, simple as that. After fighting Beta's NM HUNDREDS of times I'm learned the majority of his bullshit, and I still lose to him sometimes. Fighting NM is like fighting Zas for the first time, your gonna get knocked around and rung out from the center of the stage, and your gonna cry, and your gonna contemplate suicide, but eventually he just becomes "good" and not "broken".

NM is low tier. Once you figure his shit out, he has nothing.

 

[Sacharja]

NM is low tier. Once you figure his shit out, he has nothing.

Hes still left with throws, 33B whiff-punishing, agA JF's and B+K shenanigans. To name a few.
Still bad, though.

 

[KingAce]

NM is low tier? Will see...

It's especially funny when people select cage fights against NM. Talk about wall rape.

 

[Tiamat]

SWBeta: come on why do I gotta hear this from the NM forum mod? you should know better than that

NM probably is low tier but as I've said a million times, this game is really well balanced, so he's ok. He lacks a safe power mid and his main low poke from SC3 is totally gone now.

On the bright side, nightmare wall ability is totally sick. Most of you guys haven't even seen his best stuff yet in terms of wall combos, traps, and mixups. The GS KK pickup being able to wallsplat in this game is crazy cause now he can wallcombo you off basically any combo starter he has.

compared to SC3 where nightmare wall combos did about 60% life, they now do about 40%. Even so I would rather have SC4 nightmare's wallgame ANY day cause he can wallsplat you off SO much more stuff and he can end wall combos with crazy 50/50 mixups that go into ANOTHER wallsplat.

 

[Millionz]

NM is low tier. Once you figure his shit out, he has nothing.

Figure out what "shit" exactly?

That he has some of the most damaging wall combos in the game that give you retarded 50/50 oki that reset the situation?

That he still has some of the best oki/wakeup options in the game? (don't know how this is in the new patch)

That he is one of the best ws punishing characters in the game (top 5 at least).

That he has one of the best step killers in the game that is plus a gizzillion frames on block?

Once you figure out the gimmicky shit (i.e. when ppl stop getting hit with GS A after 33B..lol.)with NM he may not have more gimmicks but he still has good tools.

You can say he isn't top tier. You can say he isn't broken. Hell you can even say he doesn't have "solid" tools. But don't say he has nothing because that's just wrong lol...