1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Tourny results can impact a tier list but they certainly can't rule it.

Characters like Voldo, for example, are played by SIGNIFICANTLY fewer people than someone like Amy, and as such will simply statistically win less tournies.

In general, tournies results should be no more than calls to re-evaluate current tier lists. If someone wins a high level tourny with seemingly lower tiered character, perhaps it's time to start talking about whether or not that character has been underrated.
 
Tiamat said:
It isn't only based on tournament rankings. This question seems to get asked every few pages in this thread.
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Oh, sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. I used to play Super Smash Bros Melee for the Gamecube, and got competitively into it. Their tier lists were strictly based off tournament rankings of the characters, which is why I was a little confused at first.
 
GynormousFish said:
Oh, sorry, I didn't read the whole thread. I used to play Super Smash Bros Melee for the Gamecube, and got competitively into it. Their tier lists were strictly based off tournament rankings of the characters, which is why I was a little confused at first.
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It's not much of a problem. I wouldn't expect anyone to actually read this entire topic before posting in it. It would be prudent to have answers to some frequently asked questions in the first post of the thread though.

Coming from Smash Bros you gotta understand that the smash bros community is very different from basically every other fighting game community. However, Soulcalibur4 does share the similarity with Smash Bros of being a console game rather than an arcade game, which leads to endless arguing about tournament rules which you won't find in other fighting game communities most of the time.
 
I dunno how you'd rank Algol (in terms of weight), but is Brawl the first game to have a heavyweight ranked at top tier?
 
Which is why people need to be sexist and pick the version with boobs. GO MINA! BOO KILIK!

I don't think Kilik is top. For some reason, he always tops out against good players real easily. Kiliks have a bad habit of being predictable. When characters are noob friendly, even the veterans get sloppy.
 
Too bad Mina is garbage and Kilik isn't. :P

And yeah, I would say he's top 5 material. I don't know about best character, but he's pretty damn good after the patch.
 
IRHari said:
I dunno how you'd rank Algol (in terms of weight), but is Brawl the first game to have a heavyweight ranked at top tier?
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No, Sentinel in MvC2 is the first I can think of. I suppose it sorta depends on what you mean by "heavyweight" but I assume you mean "big" character and more so big character that plays like a big character. A few others I can think of off hand are Jack-5 in T5:DR, Mr. Big in NGBC, Bob in T6... um, that's all I know of for sure.
 
Tiamat said:
the kilik bandwagon is alive and strong that's for sure

I blame wing zero, asura dance, and lazy players
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It's really just the damage he gets from guessing right on a move that kills half of your entire moveset. I really didn't realize it added up to that much, compared to what you get if your character doesn't have strong kick moves or body hits. He's also jumping, so even if your kick has a decent combo on CH, you won't get it most likely. So while "just use highs and kicks and step left" is what you need to do, it's tedious and boring, and GOOD Kilik players can make that work in their advantage.

A lot of these pocket Kiliks will just lose to basic week 1 Asta, but that's really not the point. I don't think he's #1 simply because he has the two big weaknesses I stated earlier (weak punishment game and lack of a strong standing mixup) plus bad matchups against anyone with strong kicks/body hits, but if you're not playing one of those characters it's the most boring matchup ever.
 
IRHari said:
I dunno how you'd rank Algol (in terms of weight), but is Brawl the first game to have a heavyweight ranked at top tier?
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True Ogre in TTT.

So frickin' good despite there being a boatload of crazy combos that ONLY work on him.
 
ways to deal with asura:
1) Pick a character with good MID kick attacks that can be used on offense like Asta or Nightmare.
2) If you character lacks good mid kicks, you will have to rely on baiting and punishing asura. No matter where he stops in the string he is unsafe, and he cannot delay between hits. When you see him stop, punish with a fast attack, or face the wrath of repeat asura dance.
 
Just an FYI, for those who think Rock would be good vs Kilik...he's not. For some reason 6B+K and 2B+K get parried by asura, even though they are elbow attacks (thanks gayco). Kilik is also fairly hard to throw, so uh, yea. *wishes Rock had Asta's bull rush*

cha cha
 
KowtowRobinson said:
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Kilik's punishment game is actually pretty solid; his punishment game is consistent and reliable (aB is i14 and gives you 26 damage AND + frames...too good), and in this game that's saying a lot. You simply cannot keep spamming unsafe moves against Kilik; the damage adds up quickly.

Kilik does not have bad matchups against those with good anti-Asura tools (Asta, Hilde), it's more like 55/45 because Kilik does have some effective answers to their tools and can make them think twice before trying to spam...
 
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