1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Impending_Doom66 said:
Wow Angrel just wow. At first it didn't look to bad until I hit the halfway mark. How is Mina that high? IMO the bottom five can't be disputed only their positions. Those five are Zas, Talim, Rock, Mina, and Yoda. Not gonna comment on the rest but I think the bottom five are Rock, Mina, Zas, Talim, and Yoda in that order (yes I have come to the light about Talim Jaxel).
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You should have seen Angrel's previous tier lists with Mina at the top. It's amazing he's finally accepted she's not top tier and at least placed her in mid.

Tiamat said:
actual 50/50 mixups are kinda rare, as there is usually a 3rd option to beat both at any given moment
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I wonder how many 50/50 mixups there are in the game.

Cervy from BT has one, but I don't know the input, just that SPman does it all the time as a mid/low mixup, but is 1_3 GI able.

Sophi's 11AA / 11A[A] is basically you block or you try to interrupt with something decently fast. GI timing is different for both.

Mina's 11A / 44A (I think that's the input) are moves that start up exactly the same and is either a long range horizontal low or a long range horizontal mid, although I guess you could 1_3 GI them.

Head not working right now, can't think.
 
I think sophie's 11AA/11A[A] mixup (assuming she hit you with the low hit) can be reacted to because she is committed to do the unblockable after holding for a certain amount of time. If you know how much time this is you can just keep blocking until it's too late for her to do the fast one anymore, then hit her. I know her WS A+B/WS [A+B] is like this though I am not totally used to the timing yet.

That cervy BT one if the moves are same speed that means they are GIable as you said, meaning technically it's not a 50/50 mixup since you need more options, even if that means just delaying those moves. mitsu 2kB and 3B are steppable so that's not a real 50/50. Sieg's SRSH mixups are sidesteppable unless you stupidly stand up into it when he does it as oki. on the other hand, post-GI mixups are true 50/50s, since it limits the opponent to only 2 options
 
So what is the general consensus of top 3 chars or so? Oddly enough, the only character nobody seems to argue *against* being in the top tier these days is Voldo, which is sort of funny since the patches have only toned him down since release and it took months for people to consider him top.
 
Some people have been saying Voldo is top from pretty early on. I was not one of these, as I didn't experiment with him enough to make a judgement.

Voldo's main weaknesses seem to be his crappy step tracking and mixup in front turned. His okizeme appears rather lame regardless of stance. I'd say 3rd-6th best.
 
hmm what is it that makes cass that high anyway? punishment i assume? id also have to say that since sophie was so "popular"/abused online and off, ppl trained to stop her gimmicks.
 
how high? you looking at the first post? it's pretty innacurate to say the least. she's probably upper mid/B tier

example:
S: Algol, Hilde
A: Setsuka, Kilik, Amy, Voldo
B: Cass, Soph, Asta, Yoshi
C: ? (this has the highest number of characters in it compared to the other ranks)
D: Zas, Maxi
E: Mina

etc

It's pretty early in the game so tiers are still very debatable. I'm still on the fence about Nightmare even.
 
I wouldn't. Zas and Maxi have moves that are plus frames on hit (lol) and better anti step. Mina is abysmally bad in both categories.
 
Zas isnt bottom tier tho. Im fully convinced. These tiers need a reworking big time.


Either there is no true bottom tier, minus Mina/Yoda

or there is just a big ass lower mid. Zas has the tools, but his wins rely more on knowing the character you are playing. Punishing strings, ducking high strings, stepping to characters weak sides. Its a little more than some characters with built in TC and what-have-you but Zas isnt at the very bottom. Not at all.
 
A- Kilik (Asura Dance, + a lot of ridiculous moves), Setsuka (Speed, 99 % of her launchers are safe, + B+K 80 damage FC and is like -14 or -15 on block, + A,B+G throws both lot of damage, + excelent punishers) ,Yoshi ,Amy (safe as hell, fast lows, good punishers)
B- Sophi, Cassy, Asta, Voldo
C- Yun Seong, Lizardman, Mitsurugi, Taki, Raphael
D- Nightmare, Zasalamel
E- Rock

like Tiamat said, is early to say who is top or low tier, but thats my opinion of the game tiers for now.
 
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