1.03 Tier List Discussion (aka Argument)

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Outside of AA (which I haaate the lack of range on and it's so slow now) Mitsu doesn't have a step killer to both sides till i19, with 66A, which still isn't great. I'm also semi-suspicious as to whether that move is actually i19. Freaking 3A can be stepped to the side it swings on, which is just odd/sad. BB is steppable, fyi, you can step both hits, and sometimes I've had the 2nd B whiff despite the theoretical tracking on it. He also really doesn't have a decent range step killer till 33A/1A, and 1A, once again, blows outside of tech traps. 33A is good though, but so, so many characters have better.

I wish I just had Mist A outside of Mist, lol.

I dunno, I've been playing a lot of other characters lately and it's occurred to me how much easier it is to contain people when I had a mid that actually tracks to both sides, or an AA that dosen't suck balls. :p

HI HUDATHAN
 
i said this before but mitsu is not top tier
he just seems that way because hes easy to use IMO
personally i am re evaluating algol, he is definitely top
 
SC4's tiers are a lot more shallow that people are letting on.

All this heavy god-tier/SS/SSS tier crap is kinda ridiculous. Why does everyone suspect that there's one character that towers above everyone?

Really now, there's might be a few characters ahead of the pack, solely due to match-ups. But very few characters have a even or good match-up with all the characters.

Kilik perhaps, has the most even match-up, if not advantage in some/most match ups. He's probably up there. Cassandra isn't up there. Setsuka's not up there. Yoshi, maybe. Sophitia's probably up there. Everyone else feels pretty strong.

Siegfried and Nightmare aren't as bad as others are making it sound. They're pretty decent, but I can understand why some players are having trouble playing them effectively. Most of the cast is pretty speedy against those two. It takes a lot of practice to make those to two work well.
 
Siegfried is far from the slowest character in the game he is actully quet fast with all his stances. He got a big stack of mixups and he's range is more then good. He can hit you pretty much werever you stand decently fast.
 
S: Cassandra, Sophittia, Voldo, Algol, Kilik, Yoshimitsu, Setsuka, Mitsuragi, Siegfried, Hilde, Amy

A: Xianghua, Cervantes, Taki, Lizardman, Ivy, Apprentice

B: Raphael, Nightmare, Tira, Astaroth, Maxi, Yun

C: Zasalamel, Seong Mi-na, Talim, Rock, Vader, Yoda

D: None

F: None



Non-lettered Version said:
Top: Cassandra, Sophittia, Voldo, Algol, Kilik, Yoshimitsu, Setsuka, Mitsuragi, Siegfried, Hilde, Amy
Top Mid: Xianghua, Cervantes, Taki, Lizardman, Ivy, Apprentice
Mid: Raphael, Nightmare, Tira, Astaroth, Maxi, Yun
Bottom Mid: Zasalamel, Seong Mi-na, Talim, Rock, Vader, Yoda
Low: None
Bottom Low: None
Click to expand...


Could it be that the balance of Soul Calibur 4 is so well-done that the tiers are altogether tight you can have a 4-level tier instead of forcing 5 or 6? Discuss.

Note: If you haven't notice, this is the same Tier List currently posted in the first page with Top and Top Mid blended together (scraping the last two and putting them down) and bumping the rest of the tier levels up. You will notice most characters fluctuating in rank shifts between those two top levels. So why not place them together, I thought.
 
TheWatcherAlias said:
S: Cassandra, Sophittia, Voldo, Algol, Kilik, Yoshimitsu, Setsuka, Mitsuragi, Siegfried, Hilde, Amy

A: Xianghua, Cervantes, Taki, Lizardman, Ivy, Apprentice

B: Raphael, Nightmare, Tira, Astaroth, Maxi, Yun

C: Zasalamel, Seong Mi-na, Talim, Rock, Vader, Yoda

D: None

F: None

Could it be that the balance of Soul Calibur 4 is so well-done that the tiers are altogether tight you can have a 4-level tier instead of forcing 5 or 6? Discuss.

Note: If you haven't notice, this is the same Tier List currently posted in the first page with Top and Top Mid blended together (scraping the last two and putting them down) and bumping the rest of the tier levels up. You will notice most characters fluctuating in rank shifts between those two top levels. So why not place them together, I thought.
Click to expand...

My beef is with that C tier. There seems to be a HUGE gap between the B and C tiers.

Or maybe Mina and Yoda need their own exclusive tier. :(
 
cwistofu: I actually thought about putting Yoda and Vader on their own tier. But the gap with the Rock, Mi-na, etc. is pretty tight already IMO. Like you said the gap seems to be between B and C.

Come to think of it, A and B is actually pretty close that they can probably be combined also--bumping down some characters like Yun. That creates a simple 3 tier system: high, mid, low. But we seem to not like things that simple do we? lol

JMO, of course.
 
I main Siegfried, and I would argue against moving him to top tier, top mid seems accurate. I would also definitely agree with the fact that Nightmare is a lower tier than him, if not bottom mid (where he's at now), no better than mid.
 
I haven't read this thread lately, just looked at the OP. A few quick thoughts:

- Hilde should definitely be in top, but I don't think she's godlike or anything. People just need to play carefully and/or be a little more willing to counter-pick.

- Nori could very well be right about Cervy in the end, very tough execution but lots of potential.

- Asta should be at least mid, just because he is arguably the best counter-pick to both Hilde and Kilik. Also does well against Setsuka since none of her throw combos work on him.

- Mitsu belongs in mid, moves are slow in general and he doesn't get a lot of damage for how unsafe he is.

- Yoshi probably fits better in upper-mid. Let me put it this way: Sets deals more damage than Yoshi AND is mostly safe while doing it. He also has a hard time with zoning (except Algol's, oddly enough).
 
Windstar said:
Why does everyone suspect that there's one character that towers above everyone?

Kilik perhaps, has the most even match-up, if not advantage in some/most match ups. He's probably up there. Cassandra isn't up there. Setsuka's not up there. Yoshi, maybe. Sophitia's probably up there. Everyone else feels pretty strong.
Click to expand...

Because there is one character that dominates them all, and his name is Yoshimitsu.

Even though I hate Kilik, I think he's Top Tier material. Cassandra shouldn't be up there, but Sophie is good where she is. Setsuka not up there? Srsly?

And Yoshi maybe? Maybe? The character that can absorb health, has mad switch up game, and has good RO game only trumped by Hilde is only a maybe? >:^B
 
hteng said:
not that fast when most of his stance can be interrupted with 1Ks, 2Ks, 2As
Click to expand...

Playing sieg right means spacing and keeping about tip range. His stance game is good, but it gets too much attention.

aka strings
aga
WS B
WS A strings
Throw range
He is safer when he doesn't stance transition
crouch throw
B6
B:4
6A
4K
22_88B, which have combos if you know you are gonna hit

He has plenty of stuff to fight with. The biggest thing you need with sieg is patience.
 
rashreflection said:
- Asta should be at least mid, just because he is arguably the best counter-pick to both Hilde and Kilik. Also does well against Setsuka since none of her throw combos work on him.
Click to expand...

about asta vs setsuka, beware of assuming matchups are in favor of one character simply because they have one big perk vs the other character. It's not always obvious but sometimes the other character has some counter perks of their own for the matchup. Back in SC3 this was near universally regarded as Setsuka's advantage, and seeing how asta much got worse while setsuka actually improved in some key areas, I'd be skeptical about Asta having the advantage. for example, any stepped bullrush in this matchup would be 1/3 of asta's lifebar gone...suddenly his spammiest move isn't so spammable anymore

of course by saying "does well" you may mean 5-5 matchup, I use that same way of talk as well sometimes.

I would put asta in B tier right now (which would be upper mid basically)
 
I don't really want to quote the list posted above, so I'll just ask: regarding it, why is Cassie so high?

EDIT: Haha, next page. Whatever, it's the only list posted on the last page.
 
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