Brahma
[09] Warrior
Telling you guys 6A+B is solid.
Astaroth Offical General Discussion
- Thread starter Windstar
- Start date
low_chance
[01] Neophyte
When do you tend to throw it out? As a gap-closer after running forward? Do you do it only when fishing for a ring-out or wall combo, or do you use it even in a central spot?
EDIT: Just realized you said 6A+B and not 66A+B. That makes way more sense.
So you're using it as a punish move to catch steppers, eh? What do you usually try to follow with out of the mini-stun?
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Foxbot
[09] Warrior
6A has always a weak side for tracking.
Historically A is supposed to cover 6A's weak side but A series have also been nerfed to oblivion.
I also agree that losing guaranteed damage after CH 6A+B and CH3A sucks.
Defensively, I just want Asta's RE attack to happen faster so it's less steppable / interruptable. Other characters with big weapons don't have such slow RE attacks. Otherwise I really love RE for meter and momentum shift.
I would argue that Asta's wakeup oki is not terrible. Just don't use 66[K] anymore.
I did have issue with 3B whiffing on smaller characters on wakeup.
Historically A is supposed to cover 6A's weak side but A series have also been nerfed to oblivion.
I also agree that losing guaranteed damage after CH 6A+B and CH3A sucks.
Defensively, I just want Asta's RE attack to happen faster so it's less steppable / interruptable. Other characters with big weapons don't have such slow RE attacks. Otherwise I really love RE for meter and momentum shift.
I would argue that Asta's wakeup oki is not terrible. Just don't use 66[K] anymore.
I did have issue with 3B whiffing on smaller characters on wakeup.
pfiidude
[09] Warrior
I love the ring out B from the new armored-rock-paper-scissor mechanic thing. So fun to watch the opponent's eyes say WTF.
Lord Ozram
[01] Neophyte
Can someone tell me a reason in terms of range, speed, damage and safety why i should take this character over Nightmare, Ivy or Seong Mina?. I love Astaroth, but in this game is garbage!!!!
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00000000
[09] Warrior
Right now, if you don't wanna work and if you don't wanna be on some Galaxy-Brain-Shit then don't play Astaroth.
There is currently no easy path for him.
There is currently no easy path for him.
damn-I-Suck
[12] Conqueror
Yeah I felt the same way. And yes 66K does NOT feel the same. He generally feels slower too on many of his staple moves.
00000000
[09] Warrior
He has a large hurtbox and very narrow hitboxes, and he's slow. Don't get it twisted though, his damage output is pretty good and he is capable of being a bully but he's absolutely a character which only works when his opponent is scared or conditioned. All of his best tools rely heavily on your opponent fucking up. That's not exactly a recipe for a bad character but it's that keeps a character from being at the top without a solid/great/amazing player.
To put it bluntly, beyond casual mashing: You're gonna have to think, straight up. If you want to be able to deal out reckless damage then a character like Nightmare exists.
Does he need help? Sure he do, but right now we gotta work with what he's got. Astaroth is a choice.
After much thought I've come to the conclusion that SCVI is a bad game. Aside from my character's shortcomings, many of the system mechanics and design decisions are just poorly implemented and designed. This hurts me to say because there are aspects of the game that I really like, but the flaws are just too great for me to overlook.
- Reversal Edge is a horrible mechanic, one of the worst mechanics in recent fighting game history. With it countering everything except slower BA and UB attacks, it created a mind game on block that was not fun to engage in, that led to a rock, paper, scissors-like mini game that was also not fun to engage in. To me it lives in this purgatory-like state where it's good and bad at the same time for many different reasons, and overall felt like a poor mechanic that only adds artificial pauses and headaches to what would otherwise be a fast, fun flow to a match.
- GI countering throws and having a huge window is also a terrible decision. I know you could red GI throws in the past, but that required an extremely tight window, and you couldn't really feel bad when it was done to you.
- Critical Edge moves being safe on block, and some being an "anti-everything" move like Zas and Ivy make it a no thought proposition. As an opponent, you can't even bait these attacks out and punish if you KNOW they are coming, as you've got to win the lottery to step Zas' super, and Ivy's is a safe, GIing horizontal mid.
- Soul Charge is just Street Fighter V's V system in disguise, and that was already a bad system to begin with. The means to build the meter are different, but the results are the same. "Activate and win" is not a fun gameplay system at high level.
- A lot of lows and low strings became much safer in this game. And while they probably thought that because the reward from these lows had decreased, they should make them safer, I really didn't like the change. You are using your knowledge and reactions to block a move, and yet are not rewarded for this as a defender. This could be Asta specific though since his WS moves are pretty slow and not all lows recovered crouching as to grant a free low grab attempt.
It's not all bad though, and to try not to sound too negative, there are some things I enjoy in the game:
- Lethal hit is a cool idea, although the varying circumstances make it much more viable for some characters than others. Overall though I thought it was a cool addition and added cool aspects to certain match ups.
- The movement feels really good. Although this ultimately hurt Astaroth since he became much more linear because of it, I did enjoy the overall feel of movement in the game.
This may not be the best place to post my thoughts about this but this was the only forum on 8WR that I post in so might as well. Of course this is all solely my opinion, and I could just be a grumpy old man, but I think I'm done with this game until a possible patch, then I'll check it out again. And hey, if you really like this game and totally disagree with me, that's ok! As long as you're having fun that's all that really matters.
- Reversal Edge is a horrible mechanic, one of the worst mechanics in recent fighting game history. With it countering everything except slower BA and UB attacks, it created a mind game on block that was not fun to engage in, that led to a rock, paper, scissors-like mini game that was also not fun to engage in. To me it lives in this purgatory-like state where it's good and bad at the same time for many different reasons, and overall felt like a poor mechanic that only adds artificial pauses and headaches to what would otherwise be a fast, fun flow to a match.
- GI countering throws and having a huge window is also a terrible decision. I know you could red GI throws in the past, but that required an extremely tight window, and you couldn't really feel bad when it was done to you.
- Critical Edge moves being safe on block, and some being an "anti-everything" move like Zas and Ivy make it a no thought proposition. As an opponent, you can't even bait these attacks out and punish if you KNOW they are coming, as you've got to win the lottery to step Zas' super, and Ivy's is a safe, GIing horizontal mid.
- Soul Charge is just Street Fighter V's V system in disguise, and that was already a bad system to begin with. The means to build the meter are different, but the results are the same. "Activate and win" is not a fun gameplay system at high level.
- A lot of lows and low strings became much safer in this game. And while they probably thought that because the reward from these lows had decreased, they should make them safer, I really didn't like the change. You are using your knowledge and reactions to block a move, and yet are not rewarded for this as a defender. This could be Asta specific though since his WS moves are pretty slow and not all lows recovered crouching as to grant a free low grab attempt.
It's not all bad though, and to try not to sound too negative, there are some things I enjoy in the game:
- Lethal hit is a cool idea, although the varying circumstances make it much more viable for some characters than others. Overall though I thought it was a cool addition and added cool aspects to certain match ups.
- The movement feels really good. Although this ultimately hurt Astaroth since he became much more linear because of it, I did enjoy the overall feel of movement in the game.
This may not be the best place to post my thoughts about this but this was the only forum on 8WR that I post in so might as well. Of course this is all solely my opinion, and I could just be a grumpy old man, but I think I'm done with this game until a possible patch, then I'll check it out again. And hey, if you really like this game and totally disagree with me, that's ok! As long as you're having fun that's all that really matters.
Brahma
[09] Warrior
Because those characters are maggots.
D_Matt_Ma
[10] Knight
I'm going to admit, this character is not there at all. Armored throws shouldn't be breakable. Or if they are, they shouldn't be breakable once revenge kicks in. I have to take damage and still risk a break... that's just dumb.
Brahma
[09] Warrior
Pretty sure they aren't breakable during revenge armor. That's what it says in the flavor text but its kind of ambiguous and I haven't labbed it.
MichaelJackson
[14] Master
If you armor through a hit, they are unbreakable.
Astaroth136
[09] Warrior
After still sticking with Astaroth, I'm finding that we're all probably just not used to this iteration of him. You have to play pretty differently this time around, as RE completely changes the game. I'm not saying we won't struggle a bit, but it's not the end of the world. Here are some notes...
- If you're not utilizing 1(B) for oki, you need to start now. I've had a lot of success with this new tool. It hits grounded, is advantageous on block, and best of all, it tracks like crazy. Don't overuse it, as opponents can wake up and jump attack. I'm loving this new move.
- 44A+G is a fantastic armored grab. I'm not saying throw out armored grabs on neutral, but against slow heavy hitters, reading your opponent or interrupting the end of a slower string nets you around 75 damage. If you're soul charged, it becomes a 100 damage throw (if the opponent doesn't tech and you 2A afterwards)! For those unaware, even if you get the just frame on this, the opponent can ukemi back to avoid the 2A, and a side-tech nets a low-grab tech trap.
- 22_88[K] is pretty solid, especially at max distance. If you actually get a quake stun on a standing opponent, CE is guaranteed I believe with no scaling (feel free to verify this for me). I generally use it on oki or in situations where I can't be punished by a jumping attack. It's not an abusable attack, but it's decent for what it does.
- 44[A] is still good, especially since is stops RE. In some matchups, I abuse backstep 44[A]. I like this move after having advantage from something like 4(B) or A+B, because some will try to GI or RE. It's also a guard breaking attack that doesn't push the opponent away, and it stops sidesteps.
- 44B and 44(B) mixups keep the opponent honest. Fun fact: after 236A or 6B,A, a 44(B) will hit if the opponent doesn't tech to the side (3A+G is normally guaranteed unless you hit at an odd angle, but 44(B) can be a huge closer). Semi-charging 44B at neutral and letting go early can condition the opponent, and it may even hit if they try to step late. Remember, I'm not saying just throw out unblockables, but they still have their place and can hit even the best players.
- RE is a blessing and a curse. Our RE attack is by far the worst, but it can get us out of pressure. I use it sparingly and need to learn what strings we can guarantee a hit from. All of our grabs, including CE, get stuffed by RE which is extremely detrimental, but winning an RE is generally the offset there. Remember that K is by far our BEST option, and in round 2 of RE, a successful K gets us 214A afterwards. Learn which RE options are the best/most damaging for each character, as that knowledge comes in handy mid-match.
- If you're not utilizing 1(B) for oki, you need to start now. I've had a lot of success with this new tool. It hits grounded, is advantageous on block, and best of all, it tracks like crazy. Don't overuse it, as opponents can wake up and jump attack. I'm loving this new move.
- 44A+G is a fantastic armored grab. I'm not saying throw out armored grabs on neutral, but against slow heavy hitters, reading your opponent or interrupting the end of a slower string nets you around 75 damage. If you're soul charged, it becomes a 100 damage throw (if the opponent doesn't tech and you 2A afterwards)! For those unaware, even if you get the just frame on this, the opponent can ukemi back to avoid the 2A, and a side-tech nets a low-grab tech trap.
- 22_88[K] is pretty solid, especially at max distance. If you actually get a quake stun on a standing opponent, CE is guaranteed I believe with no scaling (feel free to verify this for me). I generally use it on oki or in situations where I can't be punished by a jumping attack. It's not an abusable attack, but it's decent for what it does.
- 44[A] is still good, especially since is stops RE. In some matchups, I abuse backstep 44[A]. I like this move after having advantage from something like 4(B) or A+B, because some will try to GI or RE. It's also a guard breaking attack that doesn't push the opponent away, and it stops sidesteps.
- 44B and 44(B) mixups keep the opponent honest. Fun fact: after 236A or 6B,A, a 44(B) will hit if the opponent doesn't tech to the side (3A+G is normally guaranteed unless you hit at an odd angle, but 44(B) can be a huge closer). Semi-charging 44B at neutral and letting go early can condition the opponent, and it may even hit if they try to step late. Remember, I'm not saying just throw out unblockables, but they still have their place and can hit even the best players.
- RE is a blessing and a curse. Our RE attack is by far the worst, but it can get us out of pressure. I use it sparingly and need to learn what strings we can guarantee a hit from. All of our grabs, including CE, get stuffed by RE which is extremely detrimental, but winning an RE is generally the offset there. Remember that K is by far our BEST option, and in round 2 of RE, a successful K gets us 214A afterwards. Learn which RE options are the best/most damaging for each character, as that knowledge comes in handy mid-match.
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Zakhara
[08] Mercenary
I've been encountering this recently and can vouch for it. It's not perfect (if you're too close it does funny things), but it gets the job done.
I'm also liking the idea of 44[A] for okizeme since it has solid range for netting advantage after rolls.
I want to toss my hat in for 8/9B. I know it sounds pithy, but hear me out: hits OTG, safe, mid, knocks down, and jumps. I think this helps versus Ivy and Mi-na. It also does 9% guard damage, which is pretty high for an attack of this speed (with so many other decent properties).
Astaroth136
[09] Warrior
I exclusively use 8_9B as the jumping attack. I completely agree that it's amazing.
8A+G can't be grab-broken by opponents, so I use that strings ending in a low, tech-crouching move.
8A+G can't be grab-broken by opponents, so I use that strings ending in a low, tech-crouching move.
Zakhara
[08] Mercenary
Oh, does that work after CH 6A (or 8[B+K] on guard)?
Astaroth136
[09] Warrior
It can, but it's not guaranteed. I meant I use it defensively, like if a Siegfried is using WR A,A on block, jump that second hit with 8A+G.
MystSilver
[09] Warrior
Thanks for this tip, doing wonders. Started using 11BK after 214A+G to get close for oki and using this as a wakeup tool and it really helps keep the train going.
SatanaXXX
[09] Warrior
Using too a lot 11B,K after 214A+G too, greeeat pressure, while 22B if you want max damage and some breathing space.
If I feel that I have the momentum I always go for the former
If I feel that I have the momentum I always go for the former