Character Matchup Tier Project

Seriously, are yall really trippin cuz KDZaster said nigga or something? Yes tactu you are right, we are friends and we speak to each other like this all the time.....you may be right about this being PM material but relax, we are not taking over the thread with mulitple posts, just a few jabs at each other that's all. YALL need to be easy and relax....

KDZ: Why do you ALWAYS fuck that story up? You beat me one game with your garbage ass Sieg... I then won 3 straight and you know damn well who you switched to after that.....
 
Saitoh said:
As a side note for Keev vs Hayate vids, keep in mind this is their looser bracket match, earlier in the tournament Hayate kicked Keev of the winner bracket, winning 3 - 1 :)
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Yes, I countered him on winner bracket, i was too impatient on loser bracket, attacking and letting him using StepG.

I'am still sure about à 6-4 in favor of Kilik, besides a 33B counter or on whiff punish, Nightmare has lot's of problem entering in Kilik's Zoning.

S.U. : All my match versus Keev (even the SFS1 one) is a bad example for the dFOTD mixup, i always forgot that he is a WS B spam happy boy ... i just need to spam more 66B on wakeup than going to trick him.
 
I also concur on Sieg vs. Amy being either 5/5 or 6/4 in Sieg's favor. Up close, sure I'll cause some damage but most Siegs just play the long range game against her (Or at least the ones I've played against)

Agree with the X matchups so far. Would comment on some later after some thought (And ShenYuan's input). Part of me wants to put the Voldo matchup at 5/5 or perhaps 6/4 in V's favor because either his tools are safe, pushes her out of her range (BS A+B, 3K sometimes) or has moves that put him in a weird position allowing him to evade her attacks (Okay he does that with a lot of people). I apologize for the vagueness but I can thank my notes for that...>>

Will amend later.
 
hotnikkelz:

I apologize for being vague on this one but it would be extremely difficult to change my mind here. The reason being is from so much experience playing Maxi and learning how to shut down Maxi over time (the holes in his strings etc) you can limit his options really well.

What's left is a basic Maxi which isn't as effective as the whole picture.

Other than that just speaking overall Kilik vs. Maxi IMO is the biggest cakewalk of a character matchup that Kilik has. It also helps that the majority of Maxi's out there all feel the exact same way so there is really nothing for me to debate with here.

As far as the comment with 6AAA when Maxi initiates anything string related as a Kilik player. The only thing you can do is sit back and wait for a hole and interrupt which in most cases would be a CH, 6AAA on CH is an i13-Frame move wwhose value actually goes up because 44 or so damage is actualy good for a move like that. The other choice is to sit back and wait for a counter that should be more than easy to find. So of course I can mak the wrong decision every now and again and fail but the risk/reward ration is way more in favor of Kilik.

That's what I meant about shenanigans because Maxi can only finish a string or delay them which usually leaves him vulnerable.

From a basic standpoint he isn't more effective either. Basic use of B+K (which I believe is that move that he flips u over his back on CH on the last hit right into his BT B+K I think) would definitely help if it could be used that way but it still isn't enough. ATL-R3DD use to use that shit on me all the time after a successful GI and in the open everynow and again.

That is from my experience of course.

KrayzieCD:

No not KDZ's Maxi even though he showed me some stuff in a session in NY that Hilde can't really get through as easy as everyone else.

Serge also chose him against me in the tournament I was last at.

Even online there is still something difficult about this matchup.

I really can't see why in detail but it is definitely there.

I would probably have to say so far that its extremely difficult to step this mofo with Hilde but there is something more i'm not catching onto.

Hayate:

Ok! I'm gonna continue to mess around with it this weekend.
 
B+K is the version that doesn't give BT B+K but it flips on NH. Can be used for post GI/whiff if close/etc. i19 isn't super slow either.

Not debating or anything, but just trying to clear that up.
 
Nemesis-Kanden said:
B+K is the version that doesn't give BT B+K but it flips on NH. Can be used for post GI/whiff if close/etc. i19 isn't super slow either.

Not debating or anything, but just trying to clear that up.
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Thanks for the clarification.

Perfect man to walk into the thread on the Nightmare vs. Kilik debate because I feel you give me the most problems so far with nightmare and u don't abuse 1A online so it helps judge the match better for what its worth online that is.
 
Something-Unique said:
Thanks for the clarification.

Perfect man to walk into the thread on the Nightmare vs. Kilik debate because I feel you give me the most problems so far with nightmare and u don't abuse 1A online so it helps judge the match better for what its worth online that is.
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and this is exaclty why I dont want to comment to much about match-ups/make jugdements. 95% of my experience comes from offline, where a lot of bs goes down. Lag screws with everything, from movement to frames...even mind games. I would NOT be the best person to talk about ANY match-up imo, even with a character I play with a lot.
 
KrayzieCD said:
Seriously, are yall really trippin cuz KDZaster said nigga or something? Yes tactu you are right, we are friends and we speak to each other like this all the time.....you may be right about this being PM material but relax, we are not taking over the thread with mulitple posts, just a few jabs at each other that's all. YALL need to be easy and relax....

KDZ: Why do you ALWAYS fuck that story up? You beat me one game with your garbage ass Sieg... I then won 3 straight and you know damn well who you switched to after that.....
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Since you guys are regulars, you are free to act as you like and it will be accepted by the people here. But i was just think of how new people would take it, or how I take it even. I'm not offended in the slightest, but it just makes me wince a little in embarrassment at how that stuff reads. I guess to me it just feels different reading it rather hearing it. Anyway, not to be a bother, just saying how I felt. Thanks for not flaming me!
 
Yeah after people attack some people like Talim, Tira whoever i'm gonna finish up Kilik in detail and place some arguments for Hilde being 7/3's instead of 6/4's as reasonable as I can.

To me she gets an a 6/4 or 7/3 immediately as a headstart advantage just of the simple fact she has a high percentage rate for wiping people out in 1 string.

Seriously if there was anything ever overpowered in a fighting game it would be 1 hit kills or like ridiculous amounts of health compared to other characters.
 
KrayzieCD said:
Hotnikklez: PLEASE come to Evo....wanna see you take on all the good Kilik players like Something-Unique and Wing-Zero with Maxi.
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Not possible right now, i live in TRINIDAD and i work shift, sometimes on weekends, nor can i afford it right now. BUT, when i get vacation leave i intend to make a trip up to the US hopefully that'll work out and i can afford it. I've normally only gone east side (NY and Florida), but i wouldn't mind coming to Cali for a lil bit next time :)
I think i would be more interested in getting pootang/getting wasted than SC though heh heh
 
IgnisPhaseOne said:
So, after whatever drama's gone down in this thread, do we have an updated chart yet?
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check the first post, it's updated in two different formats now

something I forgot to mention for nm vs kilik:
A lot of times I'll say having good TC moves is good against NM but it's important to realize I'm not just talking about for using against his stances. I'd argue that agA and his large range throws are astronomically more important than NSS or GS. I seriously disagree that Kilik has a spacing advantage on NM. At the range NM is using agA kilik is gonna have to take some big risks to TC it. he CAN...but I don't think it's in his favor to do it often. In any case unless something crazy happens this will stay at 5-5.
 
Something-Unique said:
hotnikkelz:

I apologize for being vague on this one but it would be extremely difficult to change my mind here. The reason being is from so much experience playing Maxi and learning how to shut down Maxi over time (the holes in his strings etc) you can limit his options really well.

What's left is a basic Maxi which isn't as effective as the whole picture.
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There are many strings, most have holes a few do not and these to be the most useful. Again specifics would be nice but of course none is given, or will be given. I would again repeat that some strings are just uninterruptable, and u risk trying to interrupt. eg RC B blocked. In kilik's case he even struggles to properly deal with propeller variations and aK even.
Basics MAKE this game, anyone can be effective being played basic, there's no reason to assume otherwise. It is only a matter of application of your moveset.

Other than that just speaking overall Kilik vs. Maxi IMO is the biggest cakewalk of a character matchup that Kilik has. It also helps that the majority of Maxi's out there all feel the exact same way so there is really nothing for me to debate with here.
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Again vague, maxi is a character of many styles. R3DD played very unsafe from what i've observed personally in the vids. He had many holes in his offense that are exploitable and still he did well vs u then. I don't think i'll go with the crowd, after all you've played vs how many different good maxis?! but it's alright if that makes u feel better though ;) what's your ratio vs krayzie btw? 7-3? 8-2?

As far as the comment with 6AAA when Maxi initiates anything string related as a Kilik player. The only thing you can do is sit back and wait for a hole and interrupt which in most cases would be a CH, 6AAA on CH is an i13-Frame move wwhose value actually goes up because 44 or so damage is actualy good for a move like that. The other choice is to sit back and wait for a counter that should be more than easy to find. So of course I can mak the wrong decision every now and again and fail but the risk/reward ration is way more in favor of Kilik.
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Sorry but 6AA is double high and Maxi has many TCs. 44 dmg pales compared to what Maxi gets for landing his CH damage. Risk reward is in MAXI's favor. LI does way more, RC KKK does just a bit more iirc, LI BK TCs and gives combo for around 60. And again I will point out his offense doesn't have to revolve around strings. Some of them 6AA is not fast enough

That's what I meant about shenanigans because Maxi can only finish a string or delay them which usually leaves him vulnerable.

From a basic standpoint he isn't more effective either. Basic use of B+K (which I believe is that move that he flips u over his back on CH on the last hit right into his BT B+K I think) would definitely help if it could be used that way but it still isn't enough. ATL-R3DD use to use that shit on me all the time after a successful GI and in the open everynow and again.
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Sorry some strings give adv on block or provides a good setup opportunity (which i'm not going to go through right now cuz it would be pointless for those who don't PLAY maxi). B+K is not only good post GI. I already explained its uses. And again Maxi does not need to go heavy string based vs anyone. I use very few strings. Everyone bases their ability to Maxi based on how good they can try and get him in his strings, refusing to see or understand what he can do outside of that. Anyway it's ok. This was my last 2c...i'll spectate from here on :)
 
hotnikkelz said:
Not possible right now, i live in TRINIDAD and i work shift, sometimes on weekends, nor can i afford it right now. BUT, when i get vacation leave i intend to make a trip up to the US hopefully that'll work out and i can afford it. I've normally only gone east side (NY and Florida), but i wouldn't mind coming to Cali for a lil bit next time :)
I think i would be more interested in getting pootang/getting wasted than SC though heh heh
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Dude, let me know! You got a free bed here in Seattle.
 
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