Critical Edge: A Brief History of Banning...

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I'm not going to pretend in this post that I'm anything more than a scrub in Soulcalibur; whether I was good at one time or another is irrelevant. This month, for the first time ever, I find myself in a leadership position in the community during the launch of a major revision to the Soulcalibur series... And of course, as with anything I do, its not without some drama.

But drama is not foreign to our community; in fact, it probably goes hand-in-hand. In addition to that, to outsiders it looks as if our community is "quick to ban". Now, Soulcalibur V is about to launch and we find ourselves already being forced to make decisions relevant to bans. So before I go into my decisions for SC5, I'm going to do my best to recall a history of banning within the Soulcalibur community.

SOULCALIBUR II

I wasn't a tournament player during the first Soulcalibur game; it didn't strike my fancy. It wasn't until Soulcalibur II that I go interested in the tournament scene. Any scrub around in those days will immediately remember that Heihachi, Link, Spawn and Necrid were banned during the entirety of the game's lifespan. Assassin, Berserker, Lizardman, Seong Mi-Na and Sophitia were banned at times as well.

Why were these characters banned? Heihachi, Link and Spawn have an obvious answer: they were console exclusive. As console exclusives, not everyone had access to the characters to play them or practice against them. If players do not have even grounds to prepare against other players, it creates an unfair advantage. How can you expect to play against Heihachi when you've never seen the character before, because you have a GameCube?

Assassin, Berserker, Lizardman, Necrid, Seong Mi-Na and Sophitia however were a different story. Back in the days of SC2, the series still had arcade releases; the arcade was where balance testing as done. The game went through many balance patches before it's eventual release on consoles. However, the characters in question did not exist in the arcade versions! They were console exclusive and thusly went through zero play-testing.

necrid.jpg

WCMaxi, who was in charge of our community at the time, and an employee of Namco Arcade International decided to simply ban them altogether until it could be determined at a later date on whether or not they were tournament viable. Most of them were eventually unbanned later in the game's life cycle. However, Necrid remained banned because he was just too broke.

Lizardman's Reptile Rumble throw had a glitch which was also banned because it could turn into an infinite. And 2G, a completely game-altering glitch which allowed players to block when they should otherwise be unable to do so, was left unbanned because it consequently made the game more balanced... although a lot slower and boring to watch at high level.

SOULCALIBUR III

Soulcalibur III... the black sheep of the series. The game did not have an arcade version before console release and we now know that the game went through no balance testing. Because of it, the disparity between the highest tier and the lowest tier of characters was larger than any other game in the series. In addition, a very severe glitch known as "Variable Cancel" (VC) threatened to break the game as we know it.

At this point in time, WCMaxi had moved to Japan and was unable to take charge; the leaders we did have were indecisive and slow to act. They tried to make everyone happy, and in turn, nobody was happy. Each region ran their own rules, on different versions of the game. On the east coast, I was the first to take the plunge and ban VC from all tournaments. Eventually Canada followed suit and over the course of the next two years, everyone else eventually fell in line.

Would VC have destroyed our community (anymore than it was already) if it wasn't banned? Probably not. When it comes down to it, it really didn't change the game as much as we expected it to, except with a few specific characters. But our community was in such shambles already that I decided to unban all guest/bonus characters and permit random creation characters into tournaments.

lynette.jpg

I mean, who cared anymore? On the east coast, our events became less about the game and more about the social atmosphere; which is probably why we have such a tight-knit community now. In hindsight, if the game had remained relevant, unbanning guest/bonus characters would have been a huge blow against balance and the competetive nature of the game. Certain characters like Lynette, Valeria and Strife were abusable to a fault.

SOULCALIBUR IV

Released during a poor time, Soulcalibur IV is probably the best game in the series thus far; but still not without it's faults. During the first few months, Darth Vader, Yoda, Angol Fear, Ashlotte, Kamikirimusi, Scheherezade, Shura and Yoda were banned from tournaments. Darth Vader and Yoda because they were console exclusive, and the remaining because they were guests.

The moment Darth Vader and Yoda became available as DLC on each console, we unbanned them from tournaments. The remaining 5 characters however were another story. They did not have their own moveset, they were just altered versions of existing characters. As an experiment, we unbanned them for a few tournaments on the east coast.

They were rebanned after a few short months. What we realised was that not only did hurt-boxes change on characters, but hit-boxes on weapons could be bigger. Eventually there became little point in a player using Amy, when they could use Scheherezade instead. Or Cervantes over Shura. With the broken hurt-boxes, we decided to end it.

What eventually became the major issue of the game had to do with two characters: Algol and Hilde. Neither character could be considered unbeatable; this was not a no-win scenario. But this issue became so significant that it was clear the majority of the community wanted something done about it.

In the history of SC4, Algol and/or Hilde won very few major tournaments. In fact, neither of them even made it to top 3 at EVO. However, there was a lingering fear. The risk vs. reward was so skewed that it would eventually make not playing these characters a grave blunder for anyone who wished to compete. The fear of "over-centralization" became prominent.

If we permitted them to remain legal, eventually everyone would be compelled to switch characters, or quit the game entirely. Unfortunately, this was about 4-5 months before EVO 2K9 and even though we could ban Algol and Hilde (which I did on the east coast), they would still be legal at EVO. At EVO, KDZ, who at the time was the #1 ranked player in America, had to fight through five Hilde players before eventually making it to grand finals.

hilde.jpg

So we banned Algol and Hilde. Not because they were "broke", but because we wanted to salvage what remained of the community. I knew we would not likely get players back because they heard Hilde was banned, but in the face of the launch of Street Fighter 4, I figured one less reason for people to quit would be greately beneficial... help stave off the exodus to greener pastures.

In fact, France didn't officially ban Hilde from their tournaments until last year; a good two years after everyone else. They have also never permitted Algol or any Star Wars characters into any of their tournaments; not for balance, but because they didn't fit "thematically" with the game.

SOULCALIBUR V?

So am I ban happy? I was the first to ban VC in SC3 and I was the first to ban Hilde in SC4... which I hope we all believe were right decisions. In addition to that, before SC4 was eventually patched, I believed that Critical Finishes needed to be banned or they would become the central focus of the game. However, at the same time, I was also the first to unban guest/bonus characters in both SC3 and SC4... which we now know were both mistakes.

So now, would you call it ironic, or kismet that we find ourselves in the same situation? Devil-Jin is a "create-a-soul" (CAS) movelist, he does not have it's own character slot, nor a default character design. As it stands CAS is banned because of tournament logistics; we don't want to be giving people time to create custom characters, nor force tournament organizers (TOs) to spend time before the tournament in order to make a set of Devil-Jin CAS. In addition, editing characters can lead to hurt-box issues and masking moves behind obscure clothing.

But what if we could get around these logistical issues when it comes specifically to Devil-Jin? It takes about 5 hours to unlock all characters in SC5; so Namco decided to make it easier for TOs and leave the save files unlocked. A TO could copy a save file with all unlocks and CAS from one console to another. So what if we made a default set of Devil-Jin CAS, distributed this save file freely and TOs could use this as their standard unlocked save file?

Sure, it can be said that people can edit the costume during the tournament in attempts to cheat; but any changes to the costume is clearly evident and will be caught on sight. Not to mention any changes to the characters height (which changes the hurt-boxes) wipes out the character design and it would take a significant amount of time for a cheater to recreate it; which they wont have at a tournament. Problem solved, right?

Well... no. While the lead director of SC5, Daishi Odashima insists that Devil-Jin is balanced for tournament play, the actual play testers for the upcoming Future Press strategy guide say otherwise. In fact, both the French and German communities state that Devil-Jin is completely overpowered and shouldn't be legal in tournaments. So what do we do?

We know from history that we really wont be able to tell a characters tournament viability until we permit them in tournaments. Why would someone learn the ins-and-outs of a banned character? We only knew Necrid was broke in SC2 because he was permitted in Japanese tournaments. We only knew how good Lynette was in SC3 because she was eventually playable. And we only knew to ban Hilde, Algol and Scheherezade because top players learned how to abuse them.

Many are advocates for a "wait and see" mentality. Ban Devil-Jin now, and only unban him if he is deemed balanced... but this doesn't work. We will never know the true strength of Devil-Jin unless he is permitted in tournaments. Not only will we not know how well he can be played, but we will not know how well he can be countered by other characters. Not to mention, the initial surge of potential new players we can get from the Tekken community will be missed.

deviljin.jpg

However, if we allow Devil-Jin, the lingering fear of over-centralization returns. If Devil-Jin is indeed broke, and players start seeing groups of Devil-Jin in top 8 at major tournaments, it will turn many away from the series. A ban later down the line will be too little too late. With how often new fighters are coming out these days, they will have already been lost to other games.

I HAVE AN IDEA!

Two rule sets! Stick with me now... In both SC3 and SC4, we had multiple different rule sets. But these rulesets weren't by choice; its because of a lack of leadership. We didn't choose to have varying rules, we just couldn't come together as a community and make a decision. I say with great pride... and anxiety, that the leadership of this community now falls upon me.

I've said many times in the past, the mark of a good leader is whether or not they can make the hard decisions. They don't even have to be the right decisions; but a decision none the less has to be made. Right and wrong is decided by the eventual outcome. Of course, it's this attitude itself that gives many of you readers pause when it comes to my so-called "decision making ability".

So when it comes to Devil-Jin, I've made a decision:
  • At MAJOR events, Devil-Jin will be banned until EVO 2K12 at the earliest.
  • At MINOR events, tournament organizers will be encouraged to allow him.
Two rule sets; that I'm hoping will let us get the best of both worlds, while minimizing the negatives. Since Devil-Jin will be banned from major events, players will not see an over-centralization of Devil-Jin in top 8 (whether or not another character ends up being broke remains to be seen). Obviously Devil-Jin players will be obligated to have a secondary character, so if Devil-Jin eventually gets banned, they will have a character to fall back on and the risk of losing them will be minimized.

As well, since Devil-Jin will be legal at minor events, we can potentially attract a few new players from the Tekken community. In addition to that, more people will be inclined to play Devil-Jin so we will more quickly discover how well he plays, and how well other characters play against him. We'll learn more about him faster, and if he eventually does get unbanned, players will be more prepared to face against him.

If sometime during the next few months, we quickly discover that Devil-Jin is broke, we can ban him from minor events as well at that time. If however, we make it all the way to after EVO 2K12 and we have yet to unilaterally ban Devil-Jin from tournaments, we can come back to this discussion and decide whether or not we wish to make him legal at major events.

I can't force anyone to follow these rules. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if EVO announces that Devil-Jin is legal at EVO 2K12 since Namco is a sponsor and they probably want him to be played. I wont presume to know how much influence Namco has on the decision making at EVO, but its a possibility to be aware of. None the less, these are the rules I will be recommending to the EVO council and I hope they accept them.

dampierre.jpg

Naturally, Dampierre is banned from tournaments until he becomes available as DLC.
Remaining rules for Soulcalibur V can be found here: http://8wayrun.com/wiki/tournament-ruleset/

*****
The official Devil-Jin CAS design will be decided in the upcoming weeks. A save file will eventually be available for download here at 8WAYRUN. Until then, only two costumes should be considered "legal": Size 3 Samurai preset and Size 3 Ninja preset. Feel free to make two CAS characters with those default design presets; you need two in case of mirror matches.
 
Jason Axelrod

Jason Axelrod

Owner and Operator of 8WAYRUN
Going on the "France" way of thinking. DJ doesnt have any weapons. Isnt that not really "thematicaly" part of the SC series.....which is a weapons based fighting game.

If there is no actual character standard for DJ, then ban until an actual character is available
French will ban him day 1 I would imagine - ignoring the CAS thing, they don't like non-calibur, lol.
 
I appreciate Jaxel's proposal and really the fact people can't give credit to the idea despite it's flaws kinda irks me as it's intention is good and valid.

...But ultimately we should let DJ go as banned due to how tricky the effort will be as it progresses. There's a lot that can go wrong to salvage an attempt to gain one best scenario at it's end. I feel we should express to Namco as best we can, why we will ban DJ yet imply what we would need to unban him and see if they respond.

This is a grey area and people don't need to scream 'it's obvious! WTF?!?' (seriously...the fuck is wrong with you people whenever a debate arises? How do you people deal with normal life issues?). There are pros and cons to EACH side, so when someone makes a proposal. WORK WITH THE IDEA and TRY to see if a new conclusion can be formed from what it gains. This concept has merit, but doesn't fix certain flaws.

(Summary: The community is right...but they're twats with their panties in a bunch over how they're handling this SUGGESTION)
 
Jaxel should have worded this whole issue differently.

Making two official rulesets is just begging for community harming drama.

What Jaxel should have done, is said that Devil Jin is officially banned under standard 8WAYRUN rules, but regardless of the ban, TO's are encouraged to deviate from the rules at minor tournaments and allow him for community growing and balance testing purposes. And that a tournament standard Devil Jin CaS will still be included in the 8WAYRUN save file for those who wish to allow him.

Problem solved.
 
No offence Fuzzie, but argue a case when you are a tournament player, k?

That is rather unfair. I did play in a tournament. FSAK. Which was held locally, as I can not afford plane tickets, and was held very shortly after finding this website.

For all you know I might be the next die hard tournament player, but to use that lame old excuse on a game that could turn the pros into noobs and what have you due to new mechanics is kind of funny.

thats a pretty old tune you're whistling it might be worth your while to change it up a bit.
 
For all you know I might be the next die hard tournament player
Maybe, but you're not by any means yet and going to one tournament does not give you license to argue a case either way at this point.

Why don't we ask WONE to decide, he could possibly appear at EVO, who knows. >_>
 

what I'm saying is that just because I haven't gone to every tournament in the world doesn't mean I haven't been to all of the ones I could have gone too.

Also. how dare you insult me with he who shall not be named. That isn't just an insult to the online soul calibur casual community, but an insult to fighting games as a whole.
 
If you've got a problem, argue it with me in PMs.

I think you are mistaking a sarcastic tone, with one of anger.

Also, again. my opinion as of right now has just as much weight as anyone elses. After all. You too are a noob by definition when it comes to soul calibur V
 
I think you are mistaking a sarcastic tone, with one of anger.

Also, again. my opinion as of right now has just as much weight as anyone elses. After all. You too are a noob by definition when it comes to soul calibur V
Fuzzie...yes and no...big on the no. Being foreign to new mechanics and having developed skills from previous games with similar skill concepts are 2 completely different things as well as knowing how the scene operates.
 
Jaxel should have worded this whole issue differently.

Making two official rulesets is just begging for community harming drama.

What Jaxel should have done, is said that Devil Jin is officially banned under standard 8WAYRUN rules, but regardless of the ban, TO's are encouraged to deviate from the rules at minor tournaments and allow him for community growing and balance testing purposes. And that a tournament standard Devil Jin CaS will still be included in the 8WAYRUN save file for those who wish to allow him.

Problem solved.
Thats pretty much exactly what I said... just worded differently.
 
What Fuzzie is saying is that he/she has an equally valid opinion to, as an example, Thugish and Whoaahhz. This makes me lol.
 

Its frustrating to think that if someone doesn't fly across the country to participate in tournaments, they are considered a lesser player and their opinions are of lesser importance on a game 90% of the community has yet to experience.

I forgot that not participating in organized events led me to never learn how to sidestep,throw break, and or just play well in general. I mean seriously?

you guys can feel free to ignorantly hide under your blankies from things hat go bump in the night, but watch as I laugh when you find that what you had once thought to be the monster under your bed, happened to be the most pathetic little kitten one could imagine.
 
Just telling you guys that Namco official rules for european tournaments is all CAS banned, including DJ.

So i dont know if Namco really would like him to be played or Namco Europe just decided without Input from Japan/Daishi.

So you're Namco wouldnt have created him if he is banned from day #1 kind of fails...
 
TO's are encouraged to deviate from the rules at minor tournaments and allow him for community growing and balance testing purposes. And that a tournament standard Devil Jin CaS will still be included in the 8WAYRUN save file for those who wish to allow him.

Problem solved.

This solves nothing as there is still comunity divide. TO are encourage to deviate from rules for growth? This growth you keep talking about is just a fallacy. Did people come in droves when Darth Vader/Yoda were part of the game? No.

If major event are going to have him ban, then locally we must do the same. It does not help us allowing DJ. Also this isn't about balance.

Canada will have him, until there is a proper solution.
 
Thats pretty much exactly what I said... just worded differently.
What I'm trying to say is that making it seem like there are TWO official rulesets is what is causing drama.

Make it seem like there is only one official ruleset, and people won't be making a big deal about it, meanwhile nothing will be changed about your initial proposal.
 
Je this is the prob with this community, people just go to tournaments where you feel the rules apply to you, period, at least i know im not going to play against no devil jin in or out a tournament, not online no DJ period, but thats me, if there is a broken Char not going to play against it either, had enough from SC4. It looks that this community never learns, ill do what i want you do what you want, then people are asking WHY NAMCO GAVE THE GAME TO THE FRENCH AND NOT TO US, well in this post is the answer cause americans can never agree on anything, the know it all people, good luck.
 
I was pointing out a flaw in your analogy. While I agree there is an issue with people in the scene undermining the opinions of outsiders over arguments that don't require being in the scene to form, but can be done with logic alone, there are things that DO require that experience. The DJ debate can be handled with logic alone on the principle that you understand how tournaments work. But developing skills requires experience, you need the competition to get better and a local scene is often too limited unless you're fortunate to have really good people. But until you've played that tested players, you can't rank yourself. Good is relative term and unless it's tested at a higher level you can't make an accurate assessment.
 
the B word already *sigh*

allow everyone to inspire character variety and more fun in general, especially devil jin since he will bring a shit load of cross over tekken players to our community.

also, namco is really on top of this game, so if a character happens to be overpowered, they will get patched.

Electric wind god fist ftw!
 
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