Critical Edge: Cut Off Your Nose to Spite Your Face?

If you were watching my Salty Battles #08 stream yesterday, you may have witnessed that sometime during the event I was informed of a new "hot topic" within the fighting game community (FGC). Admittedly, I have done zero research on this topic; but the facts on the issue are not nearly as important as the public perception and what they believe to be true.

My knowledge of the topic in question is directly related to discussions (or should I say, arguments) with the stream monsters on the twitch.tv/8wayrun channel. Readers may say "but thats not true", or "he/she never said that"; but as stated before, its all about perception. This article is my entry into the ongoing and current debate known as "eSports VS FGC"... Don't want to hear what I have to say? Well I have a website, so I have a voice.

[EDITORS NOTE: The opinions of Jaxel in this article in no way represent the opinion Soulcalibur community as a whole. He is just one person, who happens to have a napoleon complex and delusions of grandeur. The community appreciates what EVO/SRK does for us.]

Don't cut off your nose to spite your face... Which I'll do right now!​

Before I get started, let me point out that the "FGC" we're talking about is not our community; it is strictly the EVO community, the SRK community, the Capcom community. I don't consider myself a part of that community; they have traditionally treated us like garbage and I know for a fact they don't respect us. In the past, when I've posted Soulcalibur events on their forums, they quickly responded with "Get that shit off of here!". Its the main reason why the Soulcalibur community has always done things our own way; we have our own tournaments, our own website, our own streams and our own community.

So why do we continue dealing with them? Because like it or not, they are a stepping stone for us to get more recognition. And this, case in point, is the entire premise of this article. More recognition leads to higher turnouts. Higher turnouts lead to larger pots. Larger pots lead to better competition. And better competition leads to more recognition. Ah, the circle of life. As long as we keep improving, the chances of us getting more recognition, professional gaming league status or corporate sponsorship increases as well.

The circle of resting on the laurels of other people's work.​

The FGC has reached this level. Much larger professional leagues such as NASL, WCG, MLG and others have begun to show increasing interest in fighting games. They have reached the next step, where they can start working with the "big boys", with large corporate backing and full scale sponsorships. Games like Starcraft and Halo have blown up in the competetive circuit thanks to these eSport professional gaming leagues. So what's the problem? I mean, this is a good thing right?

Well, yes and... yes, absolutely. Its absolutely a good thing. So why the detractors? Why does the majority of the FGC abhor the idea; to the point where the public impression is that the "leaders" of the FGC have been subverting the efforts of mergers with eSports leagues. Well that has to do with history; and as Albert Einstein once said, "Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results". So if eSports leagues have historically treated the FGC like shit, why should they expect any different looking towards the future?

Well thats simple, the FGC we have now is far different than the FGC from 3 years ago and older. Back then, the eSports leagues treated the FGC like shit, because they were shit, they were a sideshow. 4 years ago, if you asked any member of the FGC what they thought about the future of fighting games, they probably would have told you that there wasn't one. Fighting games were dead, they didn't matter anymore; and back then even Soulcalibur IV was expected to be the final game in the series.

So what happened? What changed in the past 3 years that suddenly makes fighting games relevant again? Seth Killian... and Street Fighter 4. We can thank Capcom for many things, and for me, thats Soulcalibur V. Yes, Soulcalibur V would not be happening if not for Capcom single-handedly reviving the fighting game genre. Suddenly, not only do we matter again, but we are bigger than ever. So big, that eSports leagues are bidding for our attention. They can no longer treat the FGC like shit.

But still, the FGC is as xenophobic as usual. The same basic xenophobic nature that lead to the expected death of the genre a few years back. How do you expect to grow if you shun away outsiders? Its one of the many reasons I founded 8wayrun in the first place; to help get away of the existing prejudices within the community. People are afraid that by working with eSports, eSports will take over fighting games, destroy our rulesets, limit our chances for corporate sponsorships, favor only the "best" players, and destroy any chances for "grass roots" tournaments. And frankly, none of these fears make sense.

Why would you want to be a part of The Grass Roots?​

These leagues taking over fighting games? How is this possible? By an eSports league picking up fighting games, does that make every event outside of the league irrelevant? Well how is that any different than it is now? Is a random tournament at a random cyber cafe irrelevant in comparison to a major? Absolutely. But will a NASL event (for example) suddenly make EVO irrelevant? For that matter, does NASL make Dreamhack, WCG or MLG irrelevant? Of course not.

Will they destroy our rulesets? Chances are, yes they will. All these leagues have their own rulesets and their own methods. But that doesn't force us to follow them. Each league has their own rules, and events from outside each league aren't required to follow the rules of the others. For that matter, right now the FGC is forced to follow EVO rules; because they are our only choice. We must conform to them, because we have nowhere else to go. This will give us an oppurtunity for choice.

Limited corporate sponsorship? I haven't seen any evidence of this being true. There are half a dozen major leagues for Starcraft 2, and they have no issues finding sponsors. Will joining with eSports suddenly make it impossible for us to get our own sponsors? Well we weren't getting the sponsors in the first place! If you are big enough, the sponsors will sign; and eSports is one of the best ways to prove that we're big enough. In fact, it will probably make it easier to find sponsors!

Professional gaming leagues only help the absolute highest tiers of players? Fracturing the community into "pros" and "everyone else"? This is one of the most assanine arguments I've heard someone pull out of thin air in the need to hate on eSports. It makes no sense. Sure, in Starcaft, the tournaments have a very limited number of players. Do you know why? Because matches take over an hour! But they do in fact have a larger pool of players, and they are weeded out in qualifiers throughout the year.

But going back to the FGC, why is this a bad argument? Because its no different than how it is now. Our so called "grass roots" events only support the highest tiers of players. Only the top ranking players make any money playing in tournaments, and the rest lose money in entry fees and travel expenses. The only difference is that it doesn't take us a season to weed out the "pot-monsters", we can do it in a day.

Not that kind of pot monster!​

And of course the so called "destruction of grass roots events" brings us full circle back to the fear of eSports leagues "taking over" fighting games. The fear is that with eSports in the picture, events like SweetJohnnyCage's ECT or Alex Jebailey's CEO suddenly can't happen. These large grass roots events simply can't survive in the fierce competition of corporate sponsorship and marketting. This I have to admit, is a definite possibility. But in response to that, I have a question... Does it matter?

These grass roots events are only important because we don't currently have any large eSports leagues to latch onto. We only need these events as it stands, because they fill a vacuum due to the lack of majors. Once fighting games permeate the eSports leagues more fully and there is a glut of events (with large cash prizes, mind you), the need for grass roots will quickly evaporate. The point of "grass roots" is to grow; you shouldn't want to stay grass roots forever.

Which brings me back to Einstein. Historically, in the FGC, unless you have a way to atract new blood you will get the majority of players in your community within the first month of the game's release. What determines the longevity of your game is dependant on how well you can stave off the exodus to other games. From what I've seen, the FGC only has 2 ways to attract new blood. The most obvious is a game refresh, such as a new release, or a major patch; but the FGC has no control of this. The other? Herculean events such as EVO; which the FGC can control. Tournament attendance has traditionally spiked in the weeks prior to EVO.

Unfortunately, this brings me back to what I said before about choice. Right now we have EVO, and thats it. EVO is the life-blood of FGC, and we are stuck with them. The lively-hood of our games are largely dependant on the whims of a few people and whether or not they like and/or respect us. In 2004, the top two players in Soulcalibur 2, Mick and RTD (teammates) decided to not play seriously in grand finals as they were splitting their winnings after the event anyways. Except for grand finals, SC2 was a success, but because of the whims of the EVO staff, Soulcalibur did not return to EVO for 5 years.

In 2009, EVO brought Soulcalibur IV into the fold. Another succesful event, with lots of hype and great enthusiasm from both the players and the audience. As soon as EVO was over, many considered SC4 dead. Why? Because the game would not be at EVO 2010. Had EVO 2010 featured SC4, many players would have stuck with the game, strictly because it had the EVO card. DOA4 was one of the biggest games of it's time strictly due to it's membership into both the WCG and CGL. Entrance into eSports gaming leagues mean that SC5 could not only stay alive long after EVO has shunned it (and they will), but it could actually grow even larger as it becomes more ubiquitous in eSports events.

The fanatical anti-eSports sentiment I see in the FGC seems to be about territorialism. "It's our community, stop treading on our turf!" People are so afraid of getting their toes stepped on that they will go out of their way to sabotage the chances of their constituents to get larger prizes and corporate sponsorships. In a way, they are doing a disservice to their own community members because they are afraid of losing their power. It's not that they are shooting themselves in the foot, they are shooting their community members in the foot!

The sadder part is that the leaders of the FGC have convinced the masses that boycotting eSports is a good idea! As if they are protecting the "purity" of the fighting game community; a community that has traditionally be very mean to newer players. As if "professionalism" is a bad thing! Professionalism will not get rid of the hype or excitement from matches. eSports can not only increase the prize pools for top players, but make it easier for people to find events and competition.

Overall, the many benefits of joining eSports leagues to players, far outweighs the disadvantages posed to the few leaders in power. In fact, the biggest concern we should have now, is that the damage being done by certain individuals in the FGC, doesn't hurt the chances for us, the Soulcalibur community. Many of these eSports leagues may think that the FGC represent the entirety of the fighting game community as a whole. Hell, if they don't want in, we'll take their place!

Support Soulcalibur V for eSports!​

* ADDENDUM * (added December 18, 2011)

I took this article off the front page of 8WR because I got a lot of outrage from people saying that this article would sour our chances of being at EVO. Honestly, if you guys think that SC5 won't be at EVO, simply because of this article; then you have a pretty low opinion on the integrity of the EVO committee.

Nowhere in the article do I say "Fuck EVO!". What I do say is that right now EVO holds the keys to our car; they are the deciders of our destiny; the future of our game rests in their hands. EVO holds the reigns for many fighting games, whether they know about it or not. I go on to say that joining in with eSports will help solve the issue of this monopoly. They say, "Don't put all your eggs in one basket".

The dissenters against eSports basically say that if an eSports league crumbles, then it essentially pulls the rug out from under whatever games they are hosting. Really? If MLG dies, does Starcraft 2 go down with the ship? Yes, when CGL crashed, DOA4 died... but thats because DOA4 should have died years earlier! The help of CGL was able to prop up DOA4 and support those players long after they would have been able to do on their own.

However, right now if EVO crumbles, what happens to the fighting game community? As long as there is interest left in a game, no league drama can kill it. As long as people keep wanting to support and play a game, new tournaments will fill the void. However, if the leaders of the FGC burn their bridges with eSports, the only tournaments we will have to fill the void are "grass roots"... in which case, all of our efforts to go mainstream will be for naught.

* ADDENDUM 2 * (added December 19, 2011)

Okay... I'm going to give you guys a scenario, but first, lets try to agree on something: eSports leagues WILL have fighting games in them. This is an unavoidable fact. It's not something that we can control. Can we agree on this? Okay, we are agreed.

Now, lets say we reject all support from the eSports leagues. What happens? MLG runs the tournaments their way, with their rules, likely pissing a lot of people off. This leads to many different possible outcomes. The obvious one, being that eSports leagues say "fuck it" to fighting games, and everything returns back to how it is now.

However, there is another possibility which people are forgetting. Since the FGC is not working with eSports, we end up having EVO majors and MLG majors on the same weekend. People may not like the way MLG is run, but the prizes are bigger. Sooner or later top players have to make a choice and decide to go with MLG because of the bigger pots. EVO events get smaller and smaller, and the FGC's control of the situation diminishes because they aren't working with MLG to rectify any issues. We all lose.

Now, lets say we try to work with eSports instead. Now we at least have some connection with them, and we can offer our advice and try to fix the many issues they've had in the past (although, who knows if they will listen; but I've heard their recent Tekken events have been run very well). We can help to try to fix issues, as well as make sure events don't compete with each other. Worst case? eSports leagues say "fuck it" and everything returns back to how it is now. Best case? We all win.

Now, Tocool asked in the 8wayrun chat room yesterday, "Why do we even need eSports? We've been fine for 15 years without them. Why do people suddenly think we'll die without them?" (paraphrased; yes, I do read the chat room, even if I don't always talk) This is an excellent question, which I don't feel has been properly answered yet in all the discussions in the FGC. Well to put it simply, its because of "escalation".

Fighting games are getting bigger, and people's times are limited. The number of fighting games coming out are increasing, and the amount of money being thrown around at major events is skyrocketing. We've been seeing a growing trend that players tend to flock to the bigger events and leave the less profitable games behind. A lot of players I know play Marvel and/or Street Fighter right now because thats where the players are, and thats where the money is... it doesn't matter whether they like the game or not.

Now, as stated before, eSports WILL have fighting games. The games featured in eSports leagues will naturally have the larger community because of the amount of money involved. We see this in the MOBA community. League of Legends, while having a huge advantage due to it being free to play from the start, has the majority of the community. And as other games come out, or go free to play; whether or not they are better is irrelevant unless they have some major promished cash in tournaments such as DOTA2.

So why do we suddenly need eSports, when we never needed it before? Because of limited time. If Soulcalibur V doesn't have any eSports leagues behind it (and I do consider EVO an eSports league, even though its "unique" in it's own right), we'll quickly be hearing the same things after the first 6 months: "I like SC5, but I see no reason to spend my limited time playing it, instead of practicing these other games which actually have huge tournaments". And sooner or later that common sentement becomes a downward spiral which turns into: "I like SC5, but no one else plays it, so why bother?".

In the past, a $200 payout tournament, and a $400 payout tournament for a lot of players wasn't enough to convince them to give up the game they preferred for the higher profit. But because of escalation, the margin of difference in payouts between the less popular games and the crowd-pleasers have become so large that they can't be ignored. Stick with a smaller game with a $500 payout, or switch to the less fun game, and try for that $5,000 payout.

 

Bingo. Please don't perpetuate the strawman argument that I am anti-everything-eSports. Yes, I'm skeptical because of the past track record (like others in the thread I don't consider the one-and-done Tekken experiment a success). But yes, I am enthusiastic about good ideas, wherever they come from: eSports sponsorships, eSports streams, eSports production values (sets and ties, oh no!), eSports journalism, etc.

Sorry for the confusion then Tom, its just the impression I was getting.

 

Addendum #3 12/20/2011.

You spelled my last name Jebailey wrong.

 

Addendum #3 12/20/2011.

You spelled my last name Jebailey wrong.

Haha... sorry, will fix.

 

Since I was quoted in addendum 2 I will throw in my thoughts.

What we have developed as a community for 20 years isn't something we should sell out for more prize money, or a sterile viewing environment. Unless some eSports league is willing to make several concessions they haven't in the past I don't want fighting games anywhere near them.

They need to allow you to get hype. Without crowd interaction and rowdy players we lose our soul. Plain and simple.

They need to allow BYOC areas. If they don't, casual players and observers of the tournament would have no reason to come other than to watch, and without allowing hype why bother?

They need to allow the "professional" players to actually interact with the "casuals" that come to lose and watch. I am afraid of a Starcraft scenario where Justin Wong is barricaded by curtains so I can't see him or heaven forbid, say hello. If you've ever been to a major you know that you see the community "celebrities" everywhere, walking around like everyone else. I like that.

Another thing people should have in mind is the community sourced businesses like Broken Tier Clothing and Team Spooky. They are 100% real, just like you. They love the games just as much as you do. You can feel good knowing your paying for a quality shirt or donating to a stream because you know exactly where its going, back to the community. I don't want to forsake these guys by dumping them for someone who has more money to operate with. I would rather watch and support a stream than watch a SC5 tournament on g4, courtesy of MLG.

 

People that favor hype over actual tournament play shouldn't be listened to. It's just a matter of getting your priorities straight. Jaxel wants hype, so he's more willing to sell out.

This is not something you just persuade someone to do. You have to consider the values of your people first. Real players aren't begging for eSports. It comes as a bonus. And if not, oh well.

 

If you don't already know Esports runs on two things the pros and an audience. The Pros for SSF4 happen to be in Japan. For Tekken in Korea. And even Starcraft 2 relies on the Koreans. MLG is partnered with the GSL to fly top Koreans in to compete with SC2 foreigners.

Esports is about leagues that concentrate on the bottom line...people want to watch the best players compete for something concrete(large paychecks). They want to watch high level matches. Nobody wants to watch noobs or average players play these games. That's what sports is about. Currently the FGC fuses High School football, with College football and the NFL...But we all know that only the guys in the NFL get paid. Right now the FGC relies on people spending money and traveling. I don't know how long they plan to use this formula. Will see what the numbers say in 2012.

Also Esports sets up a very high standard for professional play, the players we have now aren't really Professionals. The current formula rewards those that can afford to travel and support themselves until they get recognition and get sponsored. Esports makes talent recognition a lot easier. And when you become a Pro, you're placed on teams that focus on making you the best of the best...so having a day job as a distraction is kinda out of the equation.

But to be honest there two other qualities required for an Esports game that most FGs don't meet. Spectator-friendliness and depth. Most of you assume that numbers are the basic determinate. But even in the realm of Esports there real doubts about whether the games currently showcased have the staying power of a Starcraft 2. For Esports you take into account that a game has to be watchable without the need to have actually played it. That's important because the audience is always versatile. For Esports were talking about a largely PC crowd, but even people that don't play games like your parents can be part of it. And the depth of the game is simply to legitimize the pros and the game...Esports thrives on countless moments like Daigo's full parry. Things that can blow an audience's mind. At the same time that depth is required for balance as well. Balance is very important in Esports because the audience always wants the best at the top, imbalances have no place in an Esport. These are all real things you have to consider when promoting a game for this position.

Lastly another thing to consider is how long will SSF4 run before Capcom makes SFV. Three to five years possibly?. And if it does, how does that effect the game's standing as an Esport? Most Esports games get patches or expansions, but the core game doesn't change by much...a few balance tweaks here and there. Is Capcom willing to support SSF4 in that way? And would SF5 sell as well as SSF4? Fives years from now will gamers outside the competitive community be willing to spend 60$ on a 2D fighting game?...Considering games like Skyrim in comparison. Yeah fighting games are making a resurgence, but when you look at the video game market, they're still a niche market. While the player base is getting younger and younger. That's why they're constantly being dumbed down to appeal to a wider audience. Competitive gaming itself is a niche market. That fact further shrinks FGs in the realm of competitive standing.

Finally, I think were counting our eggs before they hatch. 2011 was a good year for competitive gaming overall. Streaming and Youtube has really helped us connected better socially and observe gaming in general. However, 2012 will be the true test for how strong each fighting game is. Because, like it or not fighting games are in competition with each other. TTT2, SCV, BBE, SFxT etc are all coming out and competing with each other. We'll see if the FGC actually grows bigger. And by that I don't mean we all play each fighter, that's an unrealistic goal. I mean if the FGC actually introduces new players that have never played FGs before. If players are willing to travel more etc. Until then, the Esports question is way too early for NA IMO.

If it's to be done successfully, it will have to be somewhere else.

 

IMO, most of the comments here on the voting process for EVO2k10 doa disservice to what the Melty Blood community was able to achieve. Melty and similar games have traditionally be looked down upon by alot of folks as being the realm of "weaboos" and "dork." Yet, given the chance, the communities from Melty-Bread and DustLoop did their darned hardest to get the game in (which it did - much to the surprise of the EVO staff).

 

Who does this Douchebag think he is? Henry the 8th?

I can only imagine one day he's flipping through a history book and he'll be like "That dude dresses so cool."

 

ok time for my 2 cents/tirade/anecdote.

a: i read this entire fucking thread thinking that i would come out of it finally understanding what "cut off your nose to spite your face" meant. i was wrong. does it mean cut yourself to make yourself uglier out of shame? does it mean destroy your natural beauty in pursuit of a more desirable end result? i am still in the dark here, and now i've lost 30 more minutes of my life. whatever i have read and am about to type officially has not and will not help me to grow intellectually or even be entertained in any way shape or form. in fact, i am now agitated, slightly disillusioned and perhaps even a little bit more dumber, and for that i hate you all.

b: "eSports" is a joke in and of itself; a sort of oxymoron. playing video games is a hobby. sitting in a chair at home or in a hotel ballroom, amped up on four loko and talking about titties and hot wings is not a sport. period. it may be awesome, but the term "esports" is an insult to any actual athletes. anyone who plays at a high level and pretends to do it for money rather than passion is either full of shit or very very fucking stupid about time and finance management. we are and should remain a niche. not only because we are embarrassingly nerdy, but because creating legitimate, "made-it" role models out of pro gamers will destroy thousands, if not millions of children.

c: to the guy a couple pages back who began his assynein argument by correcting jaxel's spelling: you look like a dick. learn some internet manners.

all kidding aside, though, i agree with inkblot in that we can't really trust the existing leagues. iirc there was an MLG event for t6 on the same day of CEO or FR or some other major just last year. remember the $20,000 MK9 tournament? the one that probably cost at least a dozen hard working nerds a job or girlfriend or good standing lease? remember how you had to use their shit joysticks, even though they were actually breaking during the tournament? that is the sort of shit that happens when people start throwing that sort of money at event. products. get. sold. end of story.

i do believe we should strengthen our ties with producers and industry leaders for event sponsorship, but not to the point that we are inviting in whoever hands over the fattest check.

this reminds me of, when i was living in albuquerque, the state of NM passed a massive tax break for film producers who shot there. almost overnight, movie studios popped up all over and more than half of the major motion pictures filmed in the US were shot there. i watched soooooooo many of my friends abandon their cherished indie work and day jobs for the realistically graspable pursuit of their dream career. at first, it worked. everyone and their brother was in on the movie biz. hell, i did some lighting side work and extra "acting" because the money was good. within a year or two, though, my friends were out of work. the indie studios that had been around for decades were gone. the lighting jobs had been taken up full time by professionals. when hollywood came to new mexico, they didn't do it to be our friends. they didn't do it to help us or support us. they did it for dollar signs, and they were good at it, and they ran us the fuck over. then, the money ran out and they left us with nothing to rebuild but some shitty western ghost town sets in the middle of nowhere.

i go to many events, knowing full and well that i don't have a shot in hell at winning top 3, or even maintaining the attention span necessary to stay in the venue for the entire event. staying active in the FGC isn't about money. it never has been. it isn't about popularity or fame or elite circles or paternal approval or career clout or scoring bitches. it is about making friends who are similarly passionate about something nerdy and time consuming and most of all isolating and esoteric. in that, we are better than the existing "leagues". no matter what happens, we must be wary of allowing that to change.

 

ok time for my 2 cents/tirade/anecdote.

a: i read this entire fucking thread thinking that i would come out of it finally understanding what "cut off your nose to spite your face" meant. i was wrong. does it mean cut yourself to make yourself uglier out of shame? does it mean destroy your natural beauty in pursuit of a more desirable end result? i am still in the dark here, and now i've lost 30 more minutes of my life. whatever i have read and am about to type officially has not and will not help me to grow intellectually or even be entertained in any way shape or form. in fact, i am now agitated, slightly disillusioned and perhaps even a little bit more dumber, and for that i hate you all.

c: "eSports" is a joke in and of itself; a sort of oxymoron. playing video games is a hobby. sitting in a chair at home or in a hotel ballroom, amped up on four loko and talking about titties and hot wings is not a sport. period. it may be awesome, but the term "esports" is an insult to any actual athletes. anyone who plays at a high level and pretends to do it for money rather than passion is either full of shit or very very fucking stupid about time and finance management. we are and should remain a niche. not only because we are embarrassingly nerdy, but because creating legitimate, "made-it" role models out of pro gamers will destroy thousands, if not millions of children.

d: to the guy a couple pages back who began his assynein argument by correcting jaxel's spelling. you look like a dick. learn some internet manners.

all kidding aside, though, i agree with inkblot in that we can't really trust the existing leagues. iirc there was an MLG event for t6 on the same day of CEO or FR or some other major just last year. remember the $20,000 MK9 tournament? the one that probably cost at least a dozen hard working nerds a job or girlfriend or good standing lease? remember how you had to use their shit joysticks, even though they were actually breaking during the tournament? that is the sort of shit that happens when people start throwing that sort of money at event. products. get. sold. end of story.

i do believe we should strengthen our ties with producers and industry leaders for event sponsorship, but not to the point that we are inviting in whoever hands over the fattest check.

this reminds me of, when i was living in albuquerque, the state of NM passed a massive tax break for film producers who shot there. almost overnight, movie studios popped up all over and more than half of the major motion pictures filmed in the US were shot there. i watched soooooooo many of my friends abandon their cherished indie work and day jobs for the realistically graspable pursuit of their dream career. at first, it worked. everyone and their brother was in on the movie biz. hell, i did some lighting side work and extra "acting" because the money was good. within a year or two, though, my friends were out of work. the indie studios that had been around for decades were gone. the lighting jobs had been taken up full time by professionals. when hollywood came to new mexico, they didn't do it to be our friends. they didn't do it to help us or support us. they did it for dollar signs, and they were good at it, and they ran us the fuck over. then, the money ran out and they left us with nothing to rebuild but some shitty western ghost town sets in the middle of nowhere.

i go to many events, knowing full and well that i don't have a shot in hell at winning top 3, or even maintaining the attention span necessary to stay in the venue for the entire event. staying active in the FGC isn't about money. it never has been. it isn't about popularity or fame or elite circles or paternal approval or career clout or scoring bitches. it is about making friends who are similarly passionate about something nerdy and time consuming and most of all isolating and esoteric. in that, we are better than the existing "leagues". no matter what happens, we must be wary of allowing that to change.

Well Said Lobo, you deserve a medal for pretty much explaining how big money can effectively kill anything built on passion alone.

 

sitting in a chair at home or in a hotel ballroom, amped up on four loko and talking about titties and hot wings is not a sport. period.

LoL this is quite possibly the funniest thing Ive seen you write!

I am LOL'ing still after reading it like 6 times because I can remember several situations of exactly what you are saying.

I say it is a sport though... Maybe not an athletic sport but a sport of the mind.

Its like boxing but with your mind... It would be alot more interesting if people understood just how hard some of the shit is the top players do under all that pressure.

 

While I agree that strides SHOULD be taken to see fighting games (not the FGC, let's not get the two confused) reach out to "esports" leagues there has to be a balance put in place by the pro-esports members of the community to allow for this to happen while our voices and concerns are heard. The only way I can see this working is if a major league approached the community as a whole and said "We want you included. How do we make this happen?" I am not going to repeat all of the arguments and comments about how well this will or will not work. Everyone here has done that for the most part. Will there have to be give and take from both sides to make this happen? Absolutely. These major events did not get to be the size they are without trial and error and have found the formulas that work for their particular events; hence the reason they pull in the money and sponsorship that they do.

One of the big concerns that would pop up in the discussions that most have not addressed is how the bottom line will be reached. The main obstacle coming from our community being the entertainment value of our events.

Now before people start trying to hunt down where I live to burn down my house and threaten my family let me explain my reasoning behind this. I will use the example of martial arts. On a personal level I have been practicing and teaching for years and can pull off what most would consider (as one of my friends put it) "fancy, jumping, spinning things". While entertaining and cool these moves are not practical in a real fight. I will revert to the basics and do what I know works. It is the same as comparing movie martial arts to real life. Movies cater to what the audience wants. That is how they make their money and protect their bottom line to keep making entertainment for us. The masses want to see high-flying kicks and dramatic battles, not a fight that ends in a matter of seconds without any "wow factor".

How does this rant apply to our events? Simple. We do what works in matches. Yes there are times when sick combos and techniques are pulled off that "wow" but for the most part every person that competes sticks to the basics most of the time. Major leagues want to do what will profit the most much like any form of the entertainment industry. They will do everything they can to draw in a wider audience which means they want entertainment and flair. Hell even reality television is scripted to keep it entertaining.

Nobody on ANY FGC site would dispute that fighting games, especially on a competitive level, are for a niche audience. They do not have that flair of the "more accessible" games to reach Call of Duty or Halo level of sales and fan base. Mix in a lot of the terminology that is attached to what we do and a wider audience would be VERY confused as to what in the hell any of us would be talking about. It is entertaining to us as a community because we have taken the time to practice, improve, and learn the lingo. We know what is going on because we did the research and live the life. How many times have you tried having a conversation with someone who is not involved in the FGC about who we are and what we do and they look at you like you have three heads? Imagine those same people trying to tune into a major event. How many would be entertained and keep watching?

To me this seems to be another major issue of getting into a major esports league. We may be ready as a community to make the transition but is the fighting game genre itself ready to make that transition?

 

You do realize that FPS's are largely a online community. It needs to pay its players to get out and play because online is not as much of a problem for FPS's where as with Fighting Games cannot thrive on online due to latency. Fighting game players are more willing to go out to get competition because of this and is not at risk for the community to die such away.

and @Boudha no one is saying we shouldn't take interest in E-sports......what is so hard to understand.

I don't understand how the two are connected. I already know that. My point was that any game will die if the rulesets aren't properly established or they're going against competitive atmosphere, such as, elements in randomness. Also that gaining sponsors and going into professional tournaments would help the fighting community. Now, I've read the other posts so I understand that the relationship hasn't been that good, but it's probably because of management from MLG. They really don't know their stuff in any game and it was only through the former pro Starcraft players that Starcraft 2 even got ablaze in the U.S. combined with nostalgia for Starcraft 1.

Your post doesn't really refute any of my points.

 

I don't understand how the two are connected. I already know that. My point was that any game will die if the rulesets aren't properly established or they're going against competitive atmosphere, such as, elements in randomness. Also that gaining sponsors and going into professional tournaments would help the fighting community. Now, I've read the other posts so I understand that the relationship hasn't been that good, but it's probably because of management from MLG. They really don't know their stuff in any game and it was only through the former pro Starcraft players that Starcraft 2 even got ablaze in the U.S. combined with nostalgia for Starcraft 1.

Your post doesn't really refute any of my points.

Lol I see that now guess I was raging a little too hard lol