Essential Just Guards

Dr. Hates

Dr. Hates

Jerk.
Hey kids. I'd like to use this thread to compile a list of moves and strings which, as the title indicates, constitute essential just guards for high-level play. If we can note all such moves and string here, it'd provide a valuable resource for those of us looking to practice most effectively with limited time.

I'll begin:

Algol:
3AA
3BB
(thanks to Tiamat)
4BA


Alpha Patroklos:
1B:B (second hit)

Astaroth:
A,B (second hit)
BB6 (second hit, though ideally this should be stepped)
66K BE (second hit)

Hilde:
3[A]
[A+B] (2nd hit can also be stepped)
c3A (2nd hit)
22_88B
(thanks to Hussler)

Ivy:
22B BE (second hit)
1B BE (second hit, though also steppable to your right)

Natsu:
33_66_99A, B (second hit; one should always attempt this, even if she cancels)

Nightmare:
22AA
3AA
1(A)
(thanks to Tiamat)

Patroklos:
66A BE (2nd hit--[also steppable, I believe--H8])
1B BE on block (3rd hit JG or duck 2nd)
236B BE (JG 2nd hit or step right/CC only)
9A+B (JG 3rd hit) *strict timing*
(thanks to Partisan)

Pyrrha:
66B BE (second hit)

Voldo:
3BB (second hit)

Xiba:
6A, K & 6B, K (second hit in each)
 
Not all of these are necessary but they aren't exactly hard to pull off and give some good opportunities.

Patroklos:
66A BE (2nd hit, also steppable)
1B BE on block (3rd hit JG or duck 2nd)
236B BE (JG 2nd hit or step right/CC only)
9A+B (JG 3rd hit) *strict timing*

more to come
 
i think this is gonna be a big deal in this game in the long run.

iirc you can JG hilde's C2A , JG nightmares 3aa, and even though i hear its super hard JG natsu's aab.
 
Algol:
3AA
3BB

Nightmare:
22AA
3AA
1(A)

The 22AA one is the most important imo. Due to pushback it can be hard or impossible to punish depending on your character if spaced properly. Just guard it and you can smash him hard regardless.
 
Leixia:
WR B (BE)
Just guard the last hit and punish the little bitch heavily for doing it. I want to see this move completely taken out of Leixia's movelist. Tired of seeing it and it doesn't work.
 
aPat 1B:B is not "essential" ... nobody's going to attempt a JG that requires such a strict timing, especially when the price to pay for failure is so high.
Same for Pat 9A+B, same for Xiba 66BBB (not listed but just saying), I'm sure there are more.

Then there are moves listed that are avoidable on reaction and extremely punishable on whiff, so I don't see how those are "essential" either. The only time JGing those could be of some use would be if you can only evade it on one side, and that side is blocked by the ring's edge... but in that situation, would you really risk a JG?

An example that I consider essential is Ivy's 1B BE (already listed.)
Because...
1) You can react to it, especially if it's abused often.
2) Side step punishing is risky due to hit box failure.
3) The move is fairly threatening.
3) Timing the JG is not too hard.
Bonus) It is difficult to JG if you never practiced JGing that move before, so it's EVEN MORE worth listing.

In my opinion, this is a prime example of a move that belongs in this thread.
 
What do you guys think about using JG as an option select against Mitsu 3B BE? I'm thinking the answer is no given that QS on block avoids most of his options, but just thought to ask.

Also, BE-ing Xiba strings is tricky as he goes to your side. It goes against the game's mechanics where pressing G off axis fixes your positioning, rather than actually turning on JG. Or is this the case?

UPDATE: Found a solution. Rather than just JG-ing Xiba's strings normally, tap 6 first then tap G so that 6 serves as your autocorrect. While I find it cool you can JG something while your character is BT-ed, this puts you in a better position to punish after.

Also, if he goes into BE and you just JG the first hit, rather than waiting to JG the second hit (which nets you less than 14 frames), just do any move that's faster than i14 -- i14 trades with second hit BE after JG-ing first hit.
 
Tiamat said:
Algol:
3AA
3BB

Nightmare:
22AA
3AA
1(A)

The 22AA one is the most important imo. Due to pushback it can be hard or impossible to punish depending on your character if spaced properly. Just guard it and you can smash him hard regardless.
Click to expand...

22AA can be cancelled into GS, that might screw up the timing though.
 
hteng said:
22AA can be cancelled into GS, that might screw up the timing though.
Click to expand...

I disagree. It's not as if canceling to GS will directly punish a just guard attempt. I've had someone do this to me pretty consistently and it's not pretty when they just guard that move. It makes the risk vs reward on 22AA/22AA6 much much worse.
 
Recommended Ukemi JGs (Note: UJG is not required to be successful, but if you're going to learn any, these are where to start):
Aeon
1B BE/33B/CH 1B/33K/etc. → 1A - Fairly easy to learn, like all 1A tech traps.
8B → 3A - More difficult but provides a braindead answer to an otherwise 50/50 situation.
CE - Quite difficult but stupidly rewarding and unfair and if you do this you are a bad person. No risk to attempt it except after 4A → CE.

Algol
1A/3AA/22A/44AA → CE - Very difficult but enjoy your free wins if you can pull it off consistently.

Astaroth
66K BE → 2A - Fairly tough but if you get hit by it you're still left standing at +4.
Stun → 22K → 22B - "Red JG", needs to be investigated more to see if it's consistently possible.
63214B+G → 66[K] - Difficult but provides a braindead answer to an otherwise 50/50 situation (662K/66[K]).

Maxi
66B → PSL2 BL K BE - Only way to avoid RO/wall combos if you get hit by it at the wrong place.
11B → 66B

Mitsurugi
CH B+K/MST B+K → 1A
CH 33K → 1A - Both are very easy to learn but are very risky if Mitsurugi has enough meter for CE.
22B → CE - Possible? Worth checking out.
Launch → 236B BE → 44A
236(B) → 44A

Natsu
PO B → 1A
BnB → 3KKK → 2A+B - Only way to avoid 44KK and bomb mixup.

Nightmare
CH 6K → 1A
66A → 1A
Any other 1A tech traps I'm forgetting. Seriously, these are easy as fuck.
33B → G → 3(B)
At wall 4K BE → 3(B)
NSS A+B → 66B
33B BE → 2B+K BE - Use back tech when attempting.

Pyrrha
22A/CH 1K/Air hit 4B → 66B BE - LEARN THIS.Keep in mind you can launch her between hits when the first is JGed, or step the 2nd for your strongest launcher. JGing both hits will forfeit free damage.

Yoshimitsu
Launch → a:B+K → Deathcopter cancel - Depends on your character, some have easy ways of getting out of this such as back tech or playing dead.
 
Alpha Patroklos:

2143B:B (And BE version)

Patroklos:

236A:B

are definitely essential relatively easy JGs

Pyrrha

236A:A (A bit harder, I would recommend just jump attacking over the second hit)
 
Blueboyb said:
Yeah but its a bit harder to react to and step.. most high level players i see just JG them. Anyways, from what I learned not all characters can step the 236A:B
Click to expand...
If they're getting hit by 236AB's second hit it just means they're stepping too late. As for the first point, it's a matter of whether you developed the reaction to step or to JG after blocking the first hit. It isn't literally essential to JG either of these strings. In fact, it's better to step αPat's 2143B:B series so he can't potentially mix you up with the BE when you're attempting to punish the 2nd hit on JG.

Anyway, Ezio, Leixia, and Ivy's BBs are worth learning to JG.
 
Slade said:
If they're getting hit by 236AB's second hit it just means they're stepping too late. As for the first point, it's a matter of whether you developed the reaction to step or to JG after blocking the first hit. It isn't literally essential to JG either of these strings. In fact, it's better to step αPat's 2143B:B series so he can't potentially mix you up with the BE when you're attempting to punish the 2nd hit on JG.

Anyway, Ezio, Leixia, and Ivy's BBs are worth learning to JG.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll take your word for it
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back