Help against fast, aggressive players

1. Keep yourself at point range. Then use B6 and 6A to punish and control.

2. When the opponent its in front of corners and walls get close to your opponent and combine B6 with B_A+G. Use 3K to interrupt any fast attack. 3>SCH K its good in this situation, cause when the characters are very close SCH K hit quickly(its all about short distance).

3. Attack any chance with throws. When you guard some neutral frames hit (one that you can punish but force the opponent to use an stand guard) use throws. Use it in changing sequences like 1-2; I mean, by example, use A+G once, then use B+G twice, then repeat the sequence.

4. Trust your luck. Its your best friend against all the BB, AA spammers. And I'm not joking. They gonna be stand waiting for the next move to punish you... don't be afraid of punishment because its something that comes as part of using Siegfried.

-Stryker-
 
Oh, if it's about safety and distance, the clear choice is SRSH :A:...(sarcasm; terminated)

Really, if it's about distance, another good sidestep punisher is SCH :A::+::B:. Terror Slap has more range than most expect. Also, try and work in :(1)::(4)::(7)::A:. It leaves you at an advantage when blocked, and can start a nice combo if it hits.

As for speed goes, I think I and everyone after/before me has covered the go-to moves.
 
from a distance, the move I always try to go for is agA or if you can JagA for two main reasons, doesnt matter what the direction, it will stop all stepping at ridiculous range. and two, the advantage on block is beautiful. Plus it ROs.

Close range it all depends on the character you go against, against SSable opponents I find 2_8 B+K series and 22_88 B to be wonderful, but if you got a sophie, cass, X, blah blah blah, then the best option is to be patient and look for your opportunity to interrupt their offense with something quick like 6K, while a CH 6K doesnt lead into anything guaranteed, it can lead you into a mix up game of your own and possibly change the tide in your favor. Unfortunately against a good player that players someone very quick, you do need defense and patience.
 
kPc said:
from a distance, the move I always try to go for is agA or if you can JagA for two main reasons, doesnt matter what the direction, it will stop all stepping at ridiculous range. and two, the advantage on block is beautiful. Plus it ROs.

Close range it all depends on the character you go against, against SSable opponents I find 2_8 B+K series and 22_88 B to be wonderful, but if you got a sophie, cass, X, blah blah blah, then the best option is to be patient and look for your opportunity to interrupt their offense with something quick like 6K, while a CH 6K doesnt lead into anything guaranteed, it can lead you into a mix up game of your own and possibly change the tide in your favor. Unfortunately against a good player that players someone very quick, you do need defense and patience.
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I was under the impression that 6A was guaranteed after CH 6K?
 
I'm with kPc on this one, I use SCH alot to keep distance, against alot of characters, if you think that an opponent is liable to throw out a particular vertical (Soph 236B can be chiefhold dodged, not so sure about cass) or see say Soph 3B, or 66B coming, chiefhold dodge SCH B works wonders and even on block it can force your opponent to keep space in which you can agA or 6A them, though those aren't your only options I like them.
 
Agreed SCH B dodges so much crap. Including Yoshi's 66B. We should actually compile a list of things that can be dodged with SCH or SBH for that matter. I'll have a console FINALLY pretty soon. (Ive been playing only at my brothers or at tourneys/gatherings.) So I can start testing these things and possibly compiling a list.
 
You mean B4/B:4 I think. 4B doesn't have a just frame associated with it.

But the difference between them is pretty massive. B4 hits like a piston for a good amount of damage, but offers no advantage -or- disadvantage on guard. It's like you're starting attacks from neutral again. Good for a faster opponent who's knowledgeable, bad for Sieg if he wants to safely continue pressure.

B:4, on the other hand, hits like a truck for a little more damage, and offers a significant amount of advantage (+4) on guard, leading to lots of block traps and mix-ups. Also, one will catch more reliably on certain ukemi set ups than the other.

Hope this helps.
 
so i've been using B:4 quite a bit against my brother who whores fast characters. what are good or popular options post B:4 against fast chars who intend to bully u instead of blocking?
 
Cowie said:
so i've been using B:4 quite a bit against my brother who whores fast characters. what are good or popular options post B:4 against fast chars who intend to bully u instead of blocking?
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If he blocks it and immediately counters, then a 3 may land. If it does then the followup SCH A+B is guaranteed if you get the CH.

Otherwise if he goes vertical, you can 22_88 him. Their are chains depending on which you use.
Left side: 88B > SRSH B > 33
Left side: 22B > SSH B > SBH B_K
These reverse on right side.
For the SSH chain the SSH B may not always hit, but it continues pressure into SBH.

This is my opinion, and what i use.
 
Post B:4, 3B will interrupt anything other then something like yoshi's iMCF. +4 frames off of B:4 is huge. Once they're trained to not respond from there. I normally set up multiple frame traps or throw/low. I.E B:4 jagA and then eventually 3B hoping they get tired of sitting and blocking. It's nice, cause it wrecks their soul gauge and you keep advantage at all times.

This works the same with all frame traps. In the beginning when opponents don't know about jagA, SCH , and B:4, they'll attacking into you every time giving you a free CH 3B. Until they figure out to stop attacking, just 3B. then after that, you get to start mixing up.
 
Could I request someone explain how a frametrap works and is put together? I'm working on taking my sieg to the next level and want to understand how they work so I can setup some of my own rather than taking a series of moves from someone else. By understanding how they work and how I can setup these situations on my own, is part of the next step in taking my sieg to the next level. Thanks in advance!
 
you want moves with advantage on hit or block that lead to an attack that is hard/impossible to interrupt with attacks

example:
CH 1K > 1K (technically this is FC K)

you get +2 advantage from the CH 1K

this means you will be able to act 2 frames faster than your opponent, for they are are taking longer to recover from being hit than you did for doing the attack

1K speed is i15 so when you do a repeat at +2, they need to use an i13 or faster move to beat it. in this case, virtually no one will be able to interrupt this attack series without using a fast high move.

things that give advantage on guard include agA, B:4, and SCH . you can try to use fast attacks to beat opponent attacks after these are blocked. SCH yields a greater frame advantage on guard than the others, so you can frametrap with stronger attacks, and there will be less ways to stop it.


does that make sense to you?
 
Yes, I understand, so you basically need to (example) find a move that is + on block (or hit) then subtract those extra frames off the move you do next, then say your throw a 15 frame move and your at +3 after the block or hit, its a guaranteed extra block (or CH if they try to interrupt you) unless they have something that hits in 12 frames or less (taki comes to mind, doesnt she have an 8 frame poke?) - my question is this.. do the frames keep adding up if your opponent stays on the defensive? say you do a move that leaves you at +3 then a 12 frame after (15-3), then you throw say A+K, 2a, and it hits, do the + frames keep stacking allowing you to keep attacking granted your opponent doesnt GI or parry?

I think im getting it right, or the basics of it.. just need to do some research on the frames and +/- on block hit and be able to know which to go to on the fly.. whew.. lol.. am I on the right track?
 
You have the right idea for the most part =P

Kk, here's a situation.

If I do a move that gives me +3 (on CH) then I do jagA (i17 i think?) which again leaves me at +3, then B:4 which leaves me at +4. Assuming they block all of these, then you keep the advantage from your LATEST attack.

So the frame trap in a lot of situations will be B:4 (blocked gives +4), jagA (+3 on block), SCH (+5-6 on block) then 3B to keep them in check until they stop responding.

Once people start getting it in their head to not attack then you get free reign on whatever you want to do.

Looping frame traps is really fun lol. jagA, then B:4, jagA until you think they'll finally respond then CH 3B. =P The nice thing is that it breaks gauge well and its a pain in the ass lol.
 
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