How difficult do you feel Voldo is to learn?

Sporko

Sporko

Big Gimpin
Last week Bibulus and I were talking during one of our practice sessions and he and I were having a discussion about how hard Voldo is to learn compared to the rest of the cast. He thought Voldo was one of the most difficult, and I thought he was one of the easiest. I mean, not Sophie or Astaroth easy, but easy none the less.

I've felt Voldo was fairly simple other than learning how/when to use evades and stance transitions, but Bibulus pointed out that my opinion is probably biased because I've been maining Voldo since two and was used to a lot of the things that make him more difficult.

He also pointed out that, even ignoring Mantis Crawl/Land fish, he'd be more difficult simply on the basis of having to memorize two completely different movesets when you factor in blindstance. I, however, find Voldo easier simply because memorizing movelists is easy for me, but what I do have trouble with are difficult inputs and/or just frames, of which Voldo has next to none (of either).

So, is it just a combination of experience with Voldo and my personal weakness with difficult inputs that makes it seem to me that Voldo is so easy to learn? What do you guys think?

Bibulus seemed to think (bear in mind though this list was off the top of his head so there could be some characters he was forgetting) that the only characters more difficult to learn than Voldo were Ivy and Setsuka.
 
empty thread? Damn o_o....

In Comparison to Ivy and Setsuka I'd say he's easy to learn, but ofcourse not Soph/Asty easy, like you mentioned. He has a big move list and alot of stances to work with, but unlike Siggy, outside of BS you're not trying to remember 50 different moves and when you should transition with each of them. Mantis Crawl has a few key transitions you'll use over and over(BS 2B+K, 2A+B236B+K, DR 2_8), CR has 2 moves that transition into it(4A+K, 2A+B236) and Death roll has 2 transitions out of stance(4K, 66A).

He seems alot more complicated then he actually is. He's not simple, but he's sure as hell not an Ivy/Sets type learning curve.
 
None of the characters in Soul Calibur are hard to learn. Once you know the system you can pick up anyone.


Voldo's "difficulty" comes in learning what moves transition into what stances and vice versa, which is moreso memorization.
 
Voldo was to say natural to me, I felt the flow and that worked. I've tried to learn Sophie/Asty but it's too hard...Or do I just suck?
 
I really dont think voldo is that difficult to learn. I use all the characters in the game, and all it took was me watching a few good voldo players for me to get the basic idea and even form and improve combos of my own. i also agree with the fact that his moves arent even that difficult to pull off. personal opinion hardest characters to learn move wise are probably ivy, setsuka and cervy cause of their just frames and insane combo links. Overall however ill say all the slow characters are quite difficult to learn cuz its hard to face a fast character with them if u do not know what to use and when. I like slow characters though, they give more of a challenge.(especially when u see a rlly good sophie or cassandra who gets pissed when getting trashed by knightmare lol total bliss)
 
To me, Voldo feels like he has the same learning curve as X... He does have 1 JF move (6:6B) but its only useful in combos for a bit of added damage, and punishment... Voldo is good because of his damage, soul damage, speed, and grd advantage (44{B}~MCHT) and how easy it is to dish this stuff out once you have him mastered... His only 2 challenges are mastering his stance transitions and combos, punishing and frame data should be natural to most of the advanced players so I think that would be considered a different subject... So, summing this up a bit, he is more of a mild character to use... The only 3 difficulties I have right now overall is stepping (online), spacing (this is the big one), and mastering the JF~Ukemi, but these are more of a general problem for me...
 
Very interesting stuff.

By the way it's normal that you have trouble stepping : Voldo doesn't step properly. He uses 2_8 A+K ...
 
voldo is one of the easiest characters because he has spammable moves that do good damage/CF. even if you do lame combos he's still better than almost everyone else

IMO it is kinda like amy. you can learn 6:6B if you feel like it, or just ignore it and do great anyway
 
Artilust said:
None of the characters in Soul Calibur are hard to learn. Once you know the system you can pick up anyone.


Voldo's "difficulty" comes in learning what moves transition into what stances and vice versa, which is moreso memorization.
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I was gonna write exactly that, but you beat me to it.
 
Tiamat said:
voldo is one of the easiest characters because he has spammable moves that do good damage/CF. even if you do lame combos he's still better than almost everyone else

IMO it is kinda like amy. you can learn 6:6B if you feel like it, or just ignore it and do great anyway
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How will you punish then ? BB ? Feels kinda weak ...
6:6B 66B 6:6B 2A+B CR B is a very important combo IMHO.

With Amy if you can't do 6:6B at least you can do 3BA 33B (-18 or more), or 66BA without JF (less damage but still knock down and punishment ...)
 
Well, given that he's the pimp master king of soul gauge damage and the only really hard combo/string transition move you really need to know with him would be 6:6B (after 1K for an easy RO near the edge), he's not that hard to learn. Although, as tresto mentioned, that move isn't necessary to play that character effectively.
 
To play them to their best potential takes practice and dedication. Sure, any one can pick up the basics and run with Voldo, especially against someone who doesn't know how to fight Voldo at all. You can take a round very quickly with 1K 6:6B ringout combo, same can be said for Amy's 33B, 66B+K~236K:a. Are they needed to win? No, I'll agree. Can they help you be a more effective player? Most certainly. Especially when you see those situations before you even do the move. Most people that don't 6:6B will not even be aware that they could've rung someone out if they did a 1K instead of 1[K], so it's not even arguable. It doesn't make them a scrub or noob, it just means that they aren't using him to his best potential.

With that said, when the game first came out, I spent 3 days in training mode getting the timing for using 6:6B as opposed to 66B and vice versa. It doesn't finally click until you've spent time doing the research on how you yourself need to react to input it when you need it. And after I figured out the method for myself, I kept practicing it to keep it clean. There have been certain times early on and still to this day where I have pressed B too early or was sloppy with the 66 input and messed it up. So after a long day of doing what I do, and when I finally come home to play, I'll go into training mode and execute it for about 5 mins or so before I play so I have it fresh.

It goes back to one of my old posts about not going for a 50/50 throw after you GI someone or a simple AA or BB, but instead take advantage of his potential by doing the 6:6B combo post-GI. Once they start to re-GI, you open up even more potential that Voldo has.

A good example of someone taking advantage of Voldo's potential would be what I saw from Manta in casuals vs other Voldo's. (Primarily Esom, and AlphaMale)

Manta made good use of transitioning into DR after MCHT66 would get blocked. Also, opting for soul guage damage instead of a few more hit points of damage by going into DR~B after a 1[K] 2B+K early on in the match. This will open up potential later when his opponents have a flashing soul gauge and are giving away free hits. I could go on about this, but the point I'm trying to make is, that not just anyone can say how difficult it is to learn a specific character unless they've put forth the effort themselves. They may have an idea of how the character should be played, but actually playing them to their full potential is rather difficult, and rarely seen. Especially when combined with yomi and all that other mind game stuff that comes with playing fighters. This is just my opinion though.
 
Well actually, the 6:6B combo can be reduced to 6:6B 2A+B~CR B which is much easier and does only 10dmg less (dunno about you, I have awful trouble doing JF 66B ->non JF 66B, the second one always comes out as a JF).

Good posts overall, show that no character is easy to play anyway. I'd just say the basic handling of Voldo is easy, but that's about it. It's just like saying Sophitia is easy because of her limited moveset, but actually playing a good Sophitia takes a lot of practice and knowledge of other characters (what can I step/punish and what can I block/punish, duck/punish + super good reflexes sinces she's mostly defensive)
 
tresto said:
How will you punish then ? BB ? Feels kinda weak ...
6:6B 66B 6:6B 2A+B CR B is a very important combo IMHO.

With Amy if you can't do 6:6B at least you can do 3BA 33B (-18 or more), or 66BA without JF (less damage but still knock down and punishment ...)
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block punishing isn't THAT important though...I'd like to see some vids where voldo just totally creams some guy for spamming unsafe stuff and getting JF elbowed constantly, cause I don't think that happens much (for multiple reasons)
 
Well sometimes punishment is what gives you the edge in a match. Dealing over 60dmg because you guessed properly on one of your opponent's unsafe moves is no joke, and if you do it often, your opponent will think twice before throwing them out. Not to mention psychological advantage...

Sure, you can play any character and win without punishing, but if another player comes along with everything just as good + punishing abilities, he will kick your ass.

I'm interested in the reasons. Is it something else than just the Voldo players you know haven't trained properly their punishment skills ? Thanks for your insights !
 
Ok heres what Ive got to say on this topic. First I want to point out that the dude saying 66:B is important speaks the truth. Especially in some matches like vs sophie her 236B will stop almost all your BS evasion options so hurting her for using it will change how the matchups plays. Thats just one example but alot of characters have unsafe moves that you want them to stop using and punishing them for it is the best way to say stop doing that.

Learning Voldo is a daunting task because of all the different tools he has and the situational use of alot of them cant be learned quickly and effectively. There are alot of tools that suddenly become more and more useful in certain matchups and there are also options that are only good situationally in certain matchups but using them properly can change the flow of things.

A great example of this is vs Kilik you can use 4[K] after blocking something if you think kilik is going to try and evade. Why? Lets break down his evasion moves and what happens as you run into them.

Asura - Early on this jumps and GI's most mids but highs such as 4K will interrupt.

1B - This will sidestep your 4[K] but whiff over you and if your timely you can roll over into MCFT and take a mixup.

iWS B - This will duck your high but if you start your move before he does then youll go under the WS B and Im pretty sure take a free LF B

Also since it is a kick you will hit him out of monument and back parry

ok so that just turned one of Voldo's most unsafe and seemingly less useful moves and against Kilik specifically it can shut down ALL his evasive moves... Voldo has alot of moves that can do a similar job and leave him in a different situation and learning how to use those moves to cater to the matchup is something I really havent seen anyone take full advantage of yet. Hes just that deep of a character. A great example of that is Esom... he plays arguably the most solid voldo in the country but I havent seen him take a really different approach to matchups besides Hilde... Hes just playing his own brand of Voldo and not really trying to work the matchup at hand most of the time.

So in my book hes probably one of the hardest characters in the game to really master
 
tresto said:
How will you punish then ? BB ? Feels kinda weak ...
6:6B 66B 6:6B 2A+B CR B is a very important combo IMHO.

With Amy if you can't do 6:6B at least you can do 3BA 33B (-18 or more), or 66BA without JF (less damage but still knock down and punishment ...)
Click to expand...

I manage and really don't use that move that much.
 
voldo just takes getting used to. he plays so "awkwardly". i don't think it's the huge movelist that's the problem, it's getting used to Blind Stance. it's even more difficult when you're facing a very mobile character like taki or talim because they can seriously mess up your combos. (switching from Blind to normal so many times will...mess...you...up.)
 
I've only been playing Voldo for about 2 and a half weeks, but he's never felt overly hard to learn. I've how many Voldos play, and I just had to learn how each move was done. As for his blind stance, I don't feel it was like learning another moveset.

Voldo isn't easy to learn, but he isn't very hard either. Then again, I still have a long way to go with him.
 
Granted this thread is long dead, but the new post brought me back to it, and having gained a lot of experience with Voldo I have to disagree with the de-emphasis on knowing 66B and 66:B. Two reasons
1) As mentioned punishment. Very simple, and nothing comes close.
2) More subtle point, some people are pointing out that in many cases you can sacrifice one or two 66B/66:B's and do 2A+B236B as a combo ender and only lose a few points of damage. However if you are doing the full combos then 2A+B236B is really not the best combo ender in most cases. Doing the 1B pickup instead costs you less than 10 damage and gives you +10. Many players I've talked will NEVER try to duck or GI after this because they really don't want to eat A+B and go back into this mixup. So its a free grab attempt basically. So 1B is worth 25+ damage, vs losing around 10. It's also big psychologically, your opponent knows every wrong guess vs mixup is leading into ANOTHER mixup. Of course, you only lose less than 10 damage if you do all the 66B's, otherwise you lose much more.
This also applies to 44{B} which I use sometimes instead of 1B depending mostly on my opponent's character. 44{B} gives slightly better damage, much better damage (even than 2A+B I think) if they are foolish enough to tech and gives you MC/LF mixups.
Finally sometimes I'll do 2A+B236G and just cancel into wake up games. After you do 236B I find your positioning isn't good and they can stand without fear. With all these options though, the mixups outweigh the combo damage because you don't lose much combo damage, which is only true if you can do all the combos fully with no skipped 66:B's.
 
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