If there was a Soul Calibur VI, prequel/sequel/reboot/retcon?

Party Wolf said:
You can't cure stupid
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Yes thank you.

I trust PS with what they pit out. Its not their fault namco (or others) cut budgets short. They are smarter than what most these scrubs are. How much can you really stand going to battle everyday. I quite enjoy watching the entertainment and suffering you provide. I dont wanna subject myself to the senseless mental beating i will get if i express my opinions, cause im not a high level player right? So why would i?

Ima kick back and enjoy the "jay show"
 
Some thoughts:

Would a reboot be an indicator to the rest of the world that the project soul team that they took SC5 in the wrong direction? For cultural or other reasons, I don't think that'll be the case though and project soul would never admit they were wrong. I know they'll admit things need changing for the sake of maintaining freshness though.

Lord knows how infrequently balance changes in a fighting game are implemented, despite that SC5 is purely a console game and that it is a very competitive genre.

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I'm totally fine with the new characters and their explanation that the SC1-SC4 storyline hit an evolutionary dead-end, but on the other hand I can't deny that there are plenty of people not happy. What baffles me the most is how tekken 3 seemed to be a similar event but the internet wasn't likely as established back then. I guess we can all look at SC's "bigger brother" to see how the future series will turn out (with magic replacing cryo-freezing, or just a lotta old men)
 
I think PS needs to get a writer that knows how to write Folk Lore stories or Western
SuckingMaw said:
Let's play the "How to spot and identify people who should be ignored" game, and why! You getting the point yet? Stop conflating your own opinions with reality. Nobody can discuss that. You say I undermine my own points by getting angry, but I'm pretty sure that being angry at people that gum up the works is a pretty reasonable response. Especially when they contribute nothing.
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Enforcing the generalization that no one cares about the story or characters based on yourself hypocritical. You don't and can't speak for everyone who plays this game especially if they differ from your reason to enjoy the series. So why insist on admonishing everyone else as if you are? People do make constructive suggestions and dicuss theoretical ideas that get peer reviewed even among casuals. You over simplify their standards comparing yourself to them. Never have I seen you acknowledge a "constructive" idea to any smaller aspects of the games you don't care about, and thus you continue to make it a problem. I honestly dont get how your passive-agressive apathy is improving anything either, and even worse denying flaws of the game that every review has mutually mentioned.
 
jtdam09 said:
The way you say that SCV's is nothing but anime cliches yet disregard the past games (Yun-Seong, Seong-Mina, and Amy especially) is beyond me. SC has always been like this. Just developed more.Redoing the story may be as easy as it sounds, but for a generation making their debut? That's very unlikely, and would seem much of a waste for those who even bought SCV to begin with. It's not like Mortal Kombat where it took nearly 7 installments to conclude that everyone dies, except Shao Khan, and it leads all the way back to MK1 being rewritten again.
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Not with the reception it got from a majority of people on that aspect of the game. It wouldn't be a waste of time because SCV has decent enough gameplay that is mutually accepted at least. Its basically in the same spot as MK x DC was. Most people still play SC5 enough for just that and ignore the events in SC5's story as only losely canon. With this, they can start over it's retelling and recreation of the atmosphere without going back into entire mithos from scratch. Because its a debut all they needed to do is redevelop the characters they already have incorrespondence to a new atmosphere. A lot of Pyrha's off screen childhood was actually pretty interesting to read and Patroklo's position was solid, it just needs to be told better and intergrate the old cast into the events to keep their lives consistant with the events. It would seem less like a time-skip if all the old characters were still involved directly. The only thing they need to redo from scratch are the asian characters that already have no personality and no story nehind them. I already suggested what I'd rather them do with Natsu while not changing her overal character.
 
DevilsDisguise said:
Not with the reception it got from a majority of people on that aspect of the game. It wouldn't be a waste of time because SCV has decent enough gameplay that is mutually accepted at least. Its basically in the same spot as MK x DC was. Most people still play SC5 enough for just that and ignore the events in SC5's story as only losely canon. With this, they can start over it's retelling and recreation of the atmosphere without going back into entire mithos from scratch. Because its a debut all they needed to do is redevelop the characters they already have incorrespondence to a new atmosphere. A lot of Pyrha's off screen childhood was actually pretty interesting to read and Patroklo's position was solid, it just needs to be told better and intergrate the old cast into the events to keep their lives consistant with the events. It would seem less like a time-skip if all the old characters were still involved directly. The only thing they need to redo from scratch are the asian characters that already have no personality and no story nehind them. I already suggested what I'd rather them do with Natsu while not changing her overal character.
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The reception was based on the length, the fact that you could only play as three characters, and there was nothing else that catered to the rest of the characters, which individual endings (on either Arcade or a Edge Master Mode) could have actually solved. An expansion could help, but it's a matter of PS being able to do that.

And The Asian characters don't have a personality? I think you mean they didn't have character development, because their personality is as clear as day.

SuckingMaw said:
I seem to recall a strong sentiment of needing things shook up, because the series was stale, so this is hyperbole. More accurately "*I* didn't want this", not "nobody asked for it". +1 full of shit points.
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I knew that something was so ridiculous about that part.

WuHT said:
I'm totally fine with the new characters and their explanation that the SC1-SC4 storyline hit an evolutionary dead-end, but on the other hand I can't deny that there are plenty of people not happy. What baffles me the most is how tekken 3 seemed to be a similar event but the internet wasn't likely as established back then. I guess we can all look at SC's "bigger brother" to see how the future series will turn out (with magic replacing cryo-freezing, or just a lotta old men)
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I think the Internet was established. It just wasn't as easily accessible as it is now with Wi-Fi and all. Must have been why Tekken was able to dodge that bullet, and much of their reception was based on gameplay. Just about the same that SCV was critiqued on, but was overshadowed by so many complaints about characters being removed/replaced, which ironically has done this before with SC2. Same situation on Dynasty Warriors 6 being revamped. They looked past the gameplay and went into a rampage over characters being removed, not even thinking that the next installment would be where they would all return anyways.
 
My view on the subject is the following: the characters are an important part of the sc universe. Even if many have a one dimensional and/or cliché personality, the beauty of the series is how these characters interact with each other and how all the stories are ultimately tied together by the soul swords in rather creative way. This is why focusing the story on only two characters was a bad move, sc isn't about the characters as individuals but as a group.

imo the 17 year gap was unnecessary. It took out many important characters, staples to the series, which wouldn't be a problem if the new characters had more fleshed out backgrounds, which unfortunately isn't the case. Some of these new characters like Leixia have personalities too similar to the characters they were based upon, which is wasted potential. They also didn't explain what happened to the older characters and didn't clarify a lot of plot holes, a mistake because a large portion of the fanbase cared about them.

All that said, ignoring what happened on sc5 storyline is not a solution. Perhaps explaining what happened between sc4 and sc5 will solve most of the problems.
 
This part of my post is a reply to jtdam09. Sorry if it upsets you at all that I'm not quoting your post, I didn't like the idea of filling up that much of my post with quote. This also may be shorter than originally intended because I had something written in the reply box, then it got lost when I clicked to the next page (tired, wasn't thinking) and I'm retyping my thoughts.

The issue of Algol and SCIV still focusing on Siegfried and Nightmare shows that the team didn't make good use of what they had available in SCIV. If the emphasis is supposed to be on Algol, then a repeat of Siegfried and Nightmare clashing as a core dynamic was not needed. I agree with you completely that Algol should have been at least hinted at in an earlier game.

Concerning Soul Blade, I guess it's fair to note that Daishi did say at one point that he wanted to call the game Soul Edge 2 but the higher-ups rejected that plan. However, that shouldn't have meant "lol I'll force the direction I want to take things in anyway even though it's inappropriate."

For the Zelda comparison aspect, you are definitely right that the focus of the Soul series is actually on the swords and not the characters, but the focus of the Legend of Zelda series is actually on the Triforce, not Zelda. Her name in the title does elevate her to a higher level of importance than any of the Soul characters would be, as you pointed out, but I feel it got across the core issue I was focused on. Sophitia and Taki are not just popular veteran characters, they're popular veteran characters that have a HUGE stake in the major story events of the series, have been around since the very beginning, and have become iconic of the series. Typically when you think "Soul Calibur," you think of Siegfried, Ivy, Voldo, Sophitia, Taki, etc. This makes them characters that should never be permanently removed or replaced by some new thing the director wants to put on a pedestal.

If the Zelda example remains a thorny issue, then perhaps better examples would be Chun-Li from Street Fighter, or Mileena and Kitana from Mortal Kombat. The series may not be ABOUT them, but they're characters that have become so ingrained into the series, that have become so iconic, that their permanent ouster from a top spot in the series for any reason is both inappropriate and insulting. If Sophitia and Taki were only added into SCIV or SCIII, Daishi could have gotten away with removing them. But they were present for five games straight until his antics, and they were highly presented in all of them.

WuHT said:
Some thoughts:
Would a reboot be an indicator to the rest of the world that the project soul team that they took SC5 in the wrong direction? For cultural or other reasons, I don't think that'll be the case though and project soul would never admit they were wrong. I know they'll admit things need changing for the sake of maintaining freshness though.
Lord knows how infrequently balance changes in a fighting game are implemented, despite that SC5 is purely a console game and that it is a very competitive genre.
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I'm totally fine with the new characters and their explanation that the SC1-SC4 storyline hit an evolutionary dead-end, but on the other hand I can't deny that there are plenty of people not happy. What baffles me the most is how tekken 3 seemed to be a similar event but the internet wasn't likely as established back then. I guess we can all look at SC's "bigger brother" to see how the future series will turn out (with magic replacing cryo-freezing, or just a lotta old men)
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From what I've heard, most companies loathe admitting they did anything wrong, because of a perception that admitting they did anything wrong suggests that the company is not worth investing in because they don't know what they're doing. I can get the logic, but it's ignorant and self-destructive logic. The more criticism is ignored, the less likely it is that consumers will return. This in turn hurts sales, and steadily decreasing sales hurts investment prospects far more.

I love pointing back to Mortal Kombat because it did exactly what I'm saying much of the industry needs to do when a company ignorantly ruins what was once a great IP. Netherrealm Studios didn't step out and explicitly say "Yeah, we screwed up big time with our past few entries, we're trying to fix it." And maybe an explicit statement is not needed. But the latest Mortal Kombat DID say exactly that by redoing MK1-3 and essentially retconning everything that happened after those games. While story and character choices were not all that contributed to the latest Mortal Kombat's success, those changes played a big part in restoring faith in what was long considered a dead and butchered IP. The game ended up with great sales and high acclaim. As I understand (and please correct me if I am wrong), the new MK's sales doubled SCV's sales. That says a lot when their positions used to be completely reversed.


In closing, if the thread gets locked from what appears to be an intentional effort to kill off this kind of discussion by people that don't want to see it take place, I will recreate the thread.
 
salarta said:
In closing, if the thread gets locked from what appears to be an intentional effort to kill off this kind of discussion by people that don't want to see it take place, I will recreate the thread.
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The fact of the matter is, if you actually believe that calling you out on communicating and acting in an acerbic and needlessly hyperbolic fashion is "an intentional attempt to close the thread", you need to check yourself. I'm not part of the problem here- you are.
 
jtdam09 said:
The reception was based on the length, the fact that you could only play as three characters, and there was nothing else that catered to the rest of the characters, which individual ending..
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Not what I read or what even I personally think in agreement. People hated Patroklos's character being pretentious and ignorant. Most reviews have mentioned more off the flaws with the presented characters. Pyrha being too whiny/Pat being too cloddish / Zwei having no personality etc made worse because we're forced to play as them. The asian characters are viewed less harshly but no more likable because of their overly campy nature and seemingly pointless insertion in comparison to their parents.
jtdam09 said:
And The Asian characters don't have a personality? I think you mean they didn't have character development, because their personality is as clear as day.
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They all came off as 1Dimentional regardless of what they said while lacking motivation. That I knew was ridiculous.
Delloso said:
My view on the subject is the following: the characters are an important part of the sc universe. Even if many have a one dimensional and/or cliché personality, the beauty of the series is how these characters interact with each other.
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My argument is that it doesn't have to be like that. SC4 and below had shallow characters but they were developing into something of their own before the intervention of the new cast created lazily from exaggerated tropes rather then building off the old archtypes. I can forgive some trivial cliches if I can deductively pick up on them but not when they get to a point where they almost tell you that they are themselves. (Xiba). The stories of the newer characters were so much more compelling before SC5 but never touched upon on screen. (Hilde's).
Delloso said:
All that said, ignoring what happened on sc5 storyline is not a solution. Perhaps explaining what happened between sc4 and sc5 will solve most of the problems.
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No it isn't but that was never necessary either. They just need to rerepresent their jotted ideas for these characters in a better way as they do with comic reboots. The reboots are never anything from scratch but just fleshing out or fixing up what wasnt done well the first time. In a sense mayve PS needs a reference guide. Maybe a mainstream Manga or an anime to tell the full story first so that the games can just abridge it while keeping consistancy. Then the games wouldn't have to be the source pressured to do it first.
 
Patroklos and Pyrrha are a bigger fail because they fail at being successors.
While most of the other ones were made with a new personality or with a perfect copy, Pyrrha and Patroklos were meant to be a evolution of Cassandra and Sophitia but ended with less epic personality.

Cassandra was a bold, tomboyish, a fierce fighter and strong minded.
Patroklos is delusional, pompous and a dirty fighter (Killing a person in surprise with a psycho face is dirty.)
His character construction is so weak that he just do what he is told too, the only reason why he was able to see through Elysium illusion was because Pyrrha was screaming for him as far as we know his resolution is as strong as his personality.

Sophitia was kind, benevolent and she was courageous.
Pyrrha is....timid....sad......weak....wait....is she a fighting game character or a white mage of some RPG?

I don't hate Patroklos and Pyrrha but I won't lie they are not successful in being good successors.
 
Hikari said:
Patroklos and Pyrrha are a bigger fail because they fail at being successors.
While most of the other ones were made with a new personality or with a perfect copy, Pyrrha and Patroklos were meant to be a evolution of Cassandra and Sophitia but ended with less epic personality.

Cassandra was a bold, tomboyish, a fierce fighter and strong minded.
Patroklos is delusional, pompous and a dirty fighter (Killing a person in surprise with a psycho face is dirty.)
His character construction is so weak that he just do what he is told too, the only reason why he was able to see through Elysium illusion was because Pyrrha was screaming for him as far as we know his resolution is as strong as his personality.

Sophitia was kind, benevolent and she was courageous.
Pyrrha is....timid....sad......weak....wait....is she a fighting game character or a white mage of some RPG?

I don't hate Patroklos and Pyrrha but I won't lie they are not successful in being good successors.
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I wouldn't call them a failure, just different. The story mode was supposed to show the growth of Patroklos as a character, so he had to start as a manipulative, misguided fool, and get wiser throughout the course of the story, transformation simbolized by alpha patroklos. And it was decently succesful at portraying him as such, barring the clichés.

Phyrra is timid, fragile and manipulative like Patroklos. She isn't weak, she just hates having to fight and kill, but when she's determined to do so she's very strong. I like her, she's different enough from Sophitia. I just wish she didn't apologise so much during battles.

I actually like Phyrra and Patroklos more than Sophitia and Cassandra, I think they were more developed in this game than their mom and aunt were in the other soul calibur games combined. However this had a cost, and this cost was the underdevelopment of the rest of the cast, especially the other new characters.
 
Hikari said:
Patroklos and Pyrrha are a bigger fail because they fail at being successors.
While most of the other ones were made with a new personality or with a perfect copy, Pyrrha and Patroklos were meant to be a evolution of Cassandra and Sophitia but ended with less epic personality.

Cassandra was a bold, tomboyish, a fierce fighter and strong minded.
Patroklos is delusional, pompous and a dirty fighter (Killing a person in surprise with a psycho face is dirty.)
His character construction is so weak that he just do what he is told too, the only reason why he was able to see through Elysium illusion was because Pyrrha was screaming for him as far as we know his resolution is as strong as his personality.
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Lets spin it around.

Cassandra was a typical noisy tomboy but was slightly flirty. She accomplished basically nothing relevant. She looked for her sister and did that for 3 iterations of the soul series.

Patroklus started out as an orphan, had the pressure of living in the shadow of his warrior mother and her fighting style, became arrogant, was manipulated by a grand schemer to slaughter people, was humbled by other characters, found his long-assumed dead sister, and then transcended his first fighting style and achieved soul calibur + setsuka's moveset. Sounds pretty deep for character development, and certainly in one game he accomplished more than cassandra.

You may not like it but to say that he had a less epic personality is plain ignorant.

I think it's rather obvious that you do hate patroklus and pyrrha but i'm not sure you're aware of it or are just in denial.
 
Patroklos never lived in his mother shadow before he even used Sword and Shield he trained under Setsuka's tutelage his original style was actually Alpha Patroklos. He just started to use S&S after his father told him the true, that by the way was the first time he heard he had a sister so until them he never had idea of her existence, he finding her was Tira machination to make Pyrrha Soul Edge fragment awake out of a strong emotion, the fact he became nicer was very artificial since he just saw to be nicer around people he needed, them he almost killed Pyrrha and got locked in a Ice prison even after that he still trusted in Soul Calibur, in the end he fought to repent for his sins, but he just woke from his illusion after Pyrrha screamed for him.

I don't hate him or her man, I just showing my point of view about them, hey they are my mains and believe me I can't have a main if I don't like him.
 
Hikari said:
Patroklos never lived in his mother shadow before he even used Sword and Shield he trained unde Setsuka his original style was actually Alpha Patroklos. He just started to use S&S after he father told him the true, that by the way was the first time he heard he had a sister so until them he never had idea of her existence, he finding her was Tira machination to make Pyrrha Soul Edge fragment awake out of a strong emotion, the fact he became nicer was very artificial since he just saw to be nicer around people he needed, them he almost killed Pyrrha and got locked in a Ice prison even after that he still trusted in Soul Calibur, in the end he fought to repent for his sins, but he just woke from his illusion after Pyrrha screamed for him.
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Lets not get too technical because i'm not clearly not as well versed in soul cal lore as you. The stuff I listed wasn't necessarily chronological either, but a simple run down of story mode stuff I remember way back in Jan.

I don't see at all how him being "nicer" was artificial at all. Everything you've listed sounds like a lotta plot twists and turns and showed character development for patroklus. I see none of that for cassandra, save some stuff about her being more mature overtime by being the responsible one compared to sophitia (which pales in comparison to SC5's patroklus-heavy single player).

I don't hate him or her man, I just showing my point of view about them, hey are my mains and believe me I can't have a main if I don't like him.
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If you're going to post your point of view on anything on the internet, be prepared to be questioned and defend your points if you want to be credible. No one here is attacking you personally.
 
WuHT said:
If you're going to post your point of view on anything on the internet, be prepared to be questioned and defend your points if you want to be credible. No one here is attacking you personally.
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This is so true.
 
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