Ivy BD Changes

After some more testing WP 6AA will not combo on normal hit. Even if get hit by the first they can block the second and duck the third. :(
And there is no WP/CL8~kB
The buffering window is bigger, so that good for the command throws.
 
So its NCC, then it virtually makes no difference. I dont even recall properly... she has three variations which look similar:

SC4:
CL 6AA+K 2nd hit sends the opponent off balance on NH.
CL WS AA 2nd hit launches on NH.
WP 6AA 2nd hit sends the opponent off balance on NH.

So now in BD only against crouch opponents would this buff be effective. Tho not much difference.

And there is no WP/CL8~kB
Click to expand...

Im curious if there is a Japanese community which is as dedicated with her strats and discoveries. Either that, or they really hired bug testers to fix it. Or removing stance glitches took care of that aswell.

The buffering window is bigger, so that good for the command throws.
Click to expand...

Gonna need someone either decent at buffering SS/CS or a better PSP pad or with PSP GO which has a PS3 controller port :) If that is what they are aiming for in BD, wonder if she will get the SC3 throw range and break window back. One of the latest news in BD is the post GI window is 23, it means she can do it without fear of getting it ducked, and since they cant GI against command throws now.

Altho if they are gearing her into her SC3 model, good throws but mediocre to solid dmg, she can still do that but with lesser tools that allow her to poke like a rushdown char like SC3. Her CH CL 3B should get CL 4B or SW iWSB, because that would only justify the purpose of the higher launch.

SC4 Ivy is one of the most complex characters that ever appeared in a fighting game.
Click to expand...

I'd imagine if they make everybody's movelist as long as VF5, how much more complicated would she get. Tho no matter how she turns out, there will always be a pocket version of Ivy that harder change between the series. :)



Oh and Eli, out of curiosity, did they get rid of the WP 6A,B+K glitch?
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======











Heres a vid (0:28) someone versus AI Ivy. You see a frame calculator besides it. Notice how on CH WP 3A, it showed -5, but this is for Voldo, so it means she gets only +5.

 
Frames? From what I remember those are not frames but points.

Hmm WP 3A stun looks pretty long. I think it's much more than +5. In console version, CL 44A on CH stun is similar and it's like +10 or something.

SC4 1.02 had the best WP 3A. Totally broken, with the damage on CH, and frames (0 on hit, safe on block) ;]
 
Im playing it now!

CH WP 3A, CL A,A+K is a combo :> 54dmg but it works only when WP 3A hits at mid range and more. Nothing is guaranteed at close range. I noticed some really big damage buffs. NH WP 3 , 5hit JF is 60dmg. I will write more later!
 
Thx Ring. Keep the changes coming! That is just wierd for WP 3A. Only mid range to combo. >_> better than nothing.

NH WP 3 , 5hit JF is 60dmg.
Click to expand...


Is that really a big buff? From the combos page, it says 3, 5 Hit JF (58).

What about the following?

3, SE 4B+K, CL 4B+K, SW 214K
3, K, 5 Hit JF.
 
No, in SC4, WP 3, 5Hit is only 42 dmg without tech.

BD:

NH WP 3, 5hit JF is 54dmg (sorry, I don't know how, but it was 60 before)
CH WP 3, SE K, 5 hit JF is 80dmg
CH WP 3, SE 66K, SW 1KB is 83dmg
CH WP 3, SE 4B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K is 76dmg
CH WP 3, SE 4B+K, CL 4B, CL236BB is 80dmg

Btw bad news: they nerfed SW 1K range. WP 3A seems much slower =( I don't think it's i16. I can't land it after WP 66B at any range...

Good news:

CH SW 1KB does 51dmg
CL AA is positive on NH
K is positive on hit
WP AA is positive on hit
 
WP 3 buff damage is def good. Its sad how it happens only when step now got better.

They really did massive patching.

WP AA is positive.
Click to expand...

This is one of the funniest thing to note. A move which does a teeny chip damage finally got its attention. I expect everything in WP to be positive on NH given their dmg is laughable. Tho yeh, take ur time with the frame testing.

Im anxious to know if iWS B combos after CH CL 3B. :D
 
I see some really serious changes. Perhaps she isn't that bad after all xD

WP 4B,B+K now gives that weird spin on CH, but on standing opponent, without any stun required.

They buffed command throws. When it hits from the back it does 10 dmg more like in SC3 and the camera changes. I assume it's also unbreakable but I have really hard testing CS/SS, its insanely hard to do it on that small analog thing =/ I can't buffer on d-pad. I did iCS only twice, i will have to work on that to test if iCS is 110dmg from the back.

Stance lock works in SW only.

A+B+K is terrible. It's a very slow vertical, and it's unsafe on block. At least -16

WP 2B is positive from neutral, not only FC.

SW FC 3B and SW 214K are the same in frames.

CL 66BA got some really nice buff. CL 66BA+K spins them around on CH, CL 66B+K gives the same effect like SW 3B (hopefully it's +7 too xD)

They fixed WP FC 3B! It launches everytime on CH when you press A+B, also you have now two launches, the charged one launches them up into air, the second one is the same as WP 44A+B~A+B. It does less damage.

CH WP FC 3B~A+B, CL 4B, SW 214K is 90dmg.

SW iWSB doesn't guaranteed anything, they can AC out of everything.

WP 66A+B damage is nerfed. It's 43dmg now, but it does more damage in combos for some reason. CL A+B,A+K, WP 66A+B is 66dmg. CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB is now 71dmg

The movement is the same in all stances! WP has good step now
 
CL 66BA got some really nice buff. CL 66BA+K spins them around on CH, CL 66B+K gives the same effect like SW 3B (hopefully it's +7 too xD)
Click to expand...

CL 66B+K is the best news so far. NH or CH?

They buffed command throws. When it hits from the back it does 10 dmg more like in SC3 and the camera changes. I assume it's also unbreakable but I have really hard testing CS/SS, its insanely hard to do it on that small analog thing =/ I can't buffer on d-pad. I did iCS only twice, i will have to work on that to test if iCS is 110dmg from the back.
Click to expand...

That is good news.

A+B+K is terrible. It's a very slow vertical, and it's unsafe on block. At least -16
Click to expand...

-16 makes is not as usable compared to other chars. It looks extremely linear already.

Stance lock works in SW only.
Click to expand...

Does that mean they selectively got rid of the stance lock and acknowledge it?

WP 4B,B+K now gives that weird spin on CH, but on standing opponent, without any stun required.
Click to expand...

That looks cool, tho does 4B track at all?

The movement is the same in all stances! WP has good step now
Click to expand...

Thats good.

They fixed WP FC 3B! It launches everytime on CH when you press A+B, also you have now two launches, the charged one launches them up into air, the second one is the same as WP 44A+B~A+B. It does less damage.
Click to expand...

That atleast makes this move safer to use on block. Which means it cant be easily stepped on guard or hit. I wish they gave the good frames on block from SC3. :D
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
Updates to first post! Guess I wont call her changes horrendous now she has some buffs in dmg areas. Tho, I hold my grounds her nerfage still exceed the buffs.
 
Her step is now insane in all stances. Combo like CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K is now much easier, because WP backstep is huge.

Tested CL 66B+K and it gives big advantage on NH (+4~5). WP 4B,B+K is worse than in SC4... they intentionaly destroyed its hitbox. It's still NC high-mid, but the mid hit whiffs too much now. On CH, it guarantees a lot of things, but that weird spin stun is shorter and you can't connect much like in SC4. I found CH WP4B,B+K, CL 22_88B for 52 dmg so far.

About stance lock, it's weird. In SW i can do 2A+K, 214K all the time, but in CL/WP when you hold A or B you can't do moves that have A+K or B+K in it.

RO cannon still works, but it's harder. CL A+B,A+K, WP 1B+K, WP 3B+K works. You need to hold A during 1B+K, and as soon as you see the red glow, let go A and do 3B+K. If you hold A then 3B+K won't work.

Her frames are better in CL and WP now. CL BB and WP BB are positive too. CL B has reduced range compared to SC4. WP AA seems to be +2. Also the second hit has more range.

Now it's time for really bad news. SW 8B+K,K and 6B9K are negative on hit =( they still do the same damage, but the frames are horrible now. Her SW close game is worse now, SW 1K has tiny range and her best punisher is negative.

5hit JF is still unsafe. I can't see any changes in SE except for damage.

CL214B is even weaker now. It doesn't do anything on stunned opponent (it bounces them in SC4). Still evades everything.
 
Now it's time for really bad news. SW 8B+K,K and 6B9K are negative on hit =( they still do the same damage, but the frames are horrible now. Her SW close game is worse now, SW 1K has tiny range and her best punisher is negative.
Click to expand...

No way....:( SW 1K being reduce range and made it negative and it gets a slight CH buff damage. Only to stop ppl from spamming.... Well, I dont see that happening to Amy.

8B+KK being negative, they want to weaken her punishment game. Really its not that hard to block the second hit. Its a high already, I dont see the need to make it weaker any further.

Think Ivy's BD change list is getting thicker on the page.

WP BB is meant to be more superior in range than CL BB. I wish they compensated it for nerfing CL BB. Tho are they both NH now?
 
No, SW 1K is still safe and positive on hit. It only has worse range. With her best punishers, I was referring to SW 8B+K,K and 6B9K , both are negative on hit. Also the low kick does different hit effect. With punishment game, you're right. I think 6K is now 0 on hit, instead of +1.

WP BB and CL BB are NCC, but now are positive on hit.

So far I think the changes aren't that bad. I played some matches with other characters too. Hildes ROs are practically non -existent now. But the damage is too big. She gets 80dmg after NH C3A. Amy's 3BA is unsafe (-13, can only punish it with SW 6B9K)

I will soon list all the changes I found so far.
 
Thanks Ring for at least giving a little bit of hope for Ivy now with the news.

I was set up to discard her altogether but with the info just now, I will give her a try once I have access to the game.
 
She's definitely hard to play now. I listed all my findings:

+ The movement is the same in all stances except for SE.

+ CS/SS does 90dmg from the back. Still haven't been able to do iCS at back turned opponent. It's close to impossible on PSPs analog. The window for command throws is very big, perhaps even larger than in SC3. You can input the directions slowly.

+ K in all stances is +3 on hit

- A+B+K is accesable from every stance. I believe it's one of the worst A+B+K moves in the game. It has no tracking at all. It's very slow and vertical, does not hit grounded opponent, does not give anything guaranteed on hit. It's i16 punishable.

Here are most noticable changes for every stance I found so far:

SW

+ CH SW 1KB does 51 dmg (+5)
+ WS B launches airborne opponent
+ On CH, WS B launches a little higher, CL 4B is connectable with 236BB for 90dmg (it's still inconsistent)
+ 6B8 does 5 damage more in combos
+ 66A has a hidden version, 66A+K which stuns opponent on CH like in SC4.
+ 2A+K is now -14 at close range.

- 1K has lesser range
- 8B+K,K and 6B8K are negative on hit
- A+B does 32dmg (-25), [A+B] does 58 (-20). The charged version can also be sidestepped in any direction easily.
- 22_88B does 19 dmg (-5)
- 214K does less damage in combos. It's still 10 dmg on standing opponent and negative on hit.

CL

+ BB is Natural Combo (30dmg) + frames on hit
+ AA is +5 on NH
+ WS AA becomes NC at tip and far range.
+ 66BA+K spins opponent on CH, goes to Whip
+ 66B+K looks like SW 3B, it's +4~5 and goes to SW

- CL 214B doesn't force crouch on block and doesn't bounce stunned opponent.
- NH CL 3B, 236BB is no longer a combo. It's not even listed in move list anymore, it's now "CL 3B, 1BB+K" (a shitty combo that does 47dmg). CL 3B, SW 6B8 still works, 60 dmg, but only at close range, because 3B doesn't launch high enough.
- CL 1B,B+K does not push at all on block =( it's still safe and positive on hit, but the move far worse. Gives a shakable sit down stun in combos. It also does 1 dmg less than in SC4.

WP

+ AA is +2 on hit
+ BB is Natural Combo (30dmg) + frames on hit
+ 4B,B+K gives a weird spin stun on CH, with guaranteed followups.
+ FC 3B~A+B_[A+B] launches everytime. I checked it, and on hit A+B cannot be interrupted! This is the best change in WP so far.
+ 2B is +1 on hit. Also, it does 16 dmg (+2), and FC 2B does 20 (+6)

- CH 3A combos only at mid to far range. It's possible to connect CL AA, CL A,A+K, CL/WP K and CL 2A. The move is no longer i16.
- 66A+B damage is now 43 (-16). Does more damage in combos.
- 44A+B damage is now 36 (-10). WP 44A+B, 44A+B combo is now 63 dmg (-18)
- 6A, B+K glitch is removed. Also they removed WP 6[A+B]~ glitch.
- 66B range is drasticaly reduced. It does not offer much on hit now.

SE
+ B:6B:4B:6B:4B is now 69dmg. CL 2B is a guaranteed followup for 80 dmg.

- BBB does 33dmg (-3). CL 2B is a guaranteed followup for 44 dmg.
- A236A does 42 dmg (-11) as if wasn't bad enough in SC4 -_- It still is shakable, and unsafe on hit.

Apart from that, I don't see any other differences in SE.

COMBOS

CL Natural Combos (NC)

AA - 20
BB - 30 (new)
44BB - 30
1B,B+K - 30 (-1)
236BB - 37 (+1)
214B_ - 31
A+B,A - 23 (-6)
A+B,A+K - 25 (-5)
33B(mash) - 35
WS A+B - 36
WS AA - 51

CL Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)

A,A+K - 19
6AK - 45 (+7)
6A+K - 54
4B - 38
4B,A+K - 24
66BA - 41
WS AA -54
1A - 32

CL guaranteed combos on NH

3B, SW 6B8 - 60 (+5)
44BB+K, 6B8 - 66 (+5)
4A, 236BB - 58 (+2)
A+BA+K, WP 66A+B - 66 (+3)
A+BA+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 69 (+12)
A+BA+K, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 71 (+16)
33B(mash), SW 9B - 50
66A, SW 9B - 44
22_88K, SW 2B - 36

CL guaranteed combos on CH

1A, 4B+K, SW 214K - 77 (-8)
1A, 4B, 236BB - 83 (+4)
3A, SW 214K - 45 (-12)
WS AA, SW 2_3B+K - 71

SW Natural Combos

AA - 20 (-2)
BB - 28 (-4)
8B+K,K - 25
6B8K - 35
214K - 10
WS A+B - 26

SW Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)

6 - 33
1KB - 51 (+5)

SW guaranteed combos on NH

22_88B, 214K - 43 (-16)
22_88B, CL 236BB - 53 (+3)
22_88B, 6B8 - 54 (+2)
22_88K, 214K - 37 (-10)
2A+K, 214K - 43 (-10)
WS B, BT A+B - 58 (+3)
WS B, 6B8 - 65 (+5)
44B, 66K, 2A+B - 55
44B, 66K, CL 236BB - 64 (+6)
44B, 1KB - 61 (+8)
1_2_3B+K, 1_2_3B+K - 52~53
3B+K, 44K - 61
2B+K, CL 236BB - 64 (+3)
66B, 9B - 52

SW guaranteed combos on CH

44A, CL 4B, WP 66A+B - 108 (+8)
1A, CL A,A+K - 58 (+8)
1A, 1KB - 61 (+13)
3B, CL 4B, SW 214K - 67 (-13)
3B, CL 4B, 236BB - 72 (-1)
66A+K, CL 236BB - 60
9B, 214K - 49 (-10)
9B, CL 236BB - 56 (+4)

WP Natural Combos

AA - 16 (-2)
BB - 30 (new)
4A+B,B - 25 (-10)
1B - 31
4B - 20
4B,B+K - 35
A+B -40
6A+B_[A+B] - 20/25
6bA+B - 42
44BB - 41
44A+B~A+B - 36 (-20)
66A+B - 43 (-16)
WS BB - 36
WS A+B - 36

WP Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)

6AA - 47
6A,B+K - 38
1AA - 20 (-7 o_O)
6B+K2_8 - 45
FC 3~A+B - 47
1_2_3B+K - 34/34/29 (+6/+1/-16)

WP guaranteed combos on NH

1B, 2B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 80 (+10)
1B, 2B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 83 (+15)
22_88B+K, CL 4B, SW 214K - 62 (-18)
22_88B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 67 (-5)
22_88K, 2B - 36
WS B, 6K - 34
WS BB, CL 236BB - 63 (+7)
WS BB, CL 6A+K - 67 (+8)
66A+B, SW 6B8 - 70 (-9)
44B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 64 (+8)
3, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 54 (+12)
66B, CL 1B,B+K - 50 (+3, but -15 as a whole combo)
44[A], SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 60 (+12)

WP guaranteed combos on CH

3A, CL A,A+K - 54 (+3)
3, SE K, SE B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 80 (+11)
3, SE 66K, SW 1KB - 80 (+11)
3, SE 4B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 80 (+19)
FC 3~A+B, WP 1B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB - 91 (+22)

SE Natural Combos

BBB - 33 (-3)
B:6B:4B:6B:4B - 69 (+12)

SE Natural Combos on Counter Hit (NCC)

4_5_6B+K - 34/34/29 (+6/+1/-16)
A236A - 43 (-10)

SE guaranteed combos on CH

66K, SW 1KB - 60 (+7)

That is all, for now =P Davo, you are free to copy and paste this onto the first page (and correct my grammar mistakes ;x)
 
Sure thing! Like the way u organise it, especially color coded. :P

Ill come back and whine, after I sort out the front page. Im actually glad CL _WP AAs and BBs are NC. >_>
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======


Ring

I need u to copy the source code from ur post so that the color code can be preserved. Since ur the mod, u would have access to the front page. Dont worry about the stuff I typed, I made a copy elsewhere. Just copy and paste over the stuff in the front page.

Thanks!
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
Discuss!!

Are command throw buffer windows larger including during a move, a blockstun, 8wayrun etc? If they are, its back to SC3 Ivy where she relies on Command throws as her main source of damage. With certain matchups rendering her command throws harder to land, she is left with poke damage. Her anti-step is still intact and now she gets some better properties out of CL 66B series into 66B+K>SW or CH 66BA+K>WP. 66BA itself is actually a good tracking move, so it should go for some experiementing in BD for some use. CL AA getting +5 is also great, as a bridging stance it could use some frames.

Sword's cheapness is really toned down. With punishers 8B+KK/6B8K negative on hit, it hurts her momentum even when she jumps back into Sword. SW 1K is smaller in range, so becareful not to spam like in SC4 as it wont track steppers like before. I miss the beefy 1KB followup. :( CL's 1BB+K> SW doesnt give pushback, so its more of a transitional move. Altho since CL BB is NH and if its impact frames has not changed, CL BB is a better i17 punisher as it give + frames now.

Whip's changes are everywhere. The best thing to look forward to is her old SC3 WP FC 3~A+B which is uninteruptable on hit. As a factor of this, once u trained them WP FC 3B becomes a setup for SS. Pokes like WP AA, BB being positive on hit sheds some light into the darkness. WP FC 2B giving a (+6) is a good number. Whip getting frames is good, tho just not as godly before since WP 3A nerfed in speed, yet on CH its still able to knockdown with CL A, A+K is good. WP 3A atleast still gets K/2K into SS, tho she has to move forward. A special mention her new change WP 44B+K, CL 4B, CL 236BB would look interesting, its NH combo. :)

As for Serpents Embrace, SE 5 Hit JF finally deserves its attention. It damages more in combos, and luckily she can get that extra chip damage off CL 2B for a total of 80dmg. CL 2B doesnt hit on grounded in SC4? However, SE A236 A is nerfed in damage as a result of this and still shakable. Its still not as pleasing.

Ring, if u got a PSP GO, u can plug in a PS3 pad. I wish u did. Btw, since her positive frames improved in a few areas, Im still wishful that her pokes that have been nerfed in dmg all got a boost in advantage. Tho if all is already checked then its time to try her out.
 
PSP Go? I wish. I have PSP 2000 PB, with Ta88v3 motherboard which cannot be modded. Lucky me. I'm starting to have some success with CS/SS now. But iCS is stupidly hard (it still has the same range btw) I get it randomly, it feels like at the beginning of SC4. The problem with that small analog thingy is that it's hard to press 1 on it. You think you press 1, but in reality you press 4 or 2. This is a little frustrating.

The window is really big now, so people who can buffer it on d-pad will do it with no problem now. TBH I don't like this change.

Overall she feels interesting. They nerfed things we abused in SC4,and buffed stuff we almost never touched so now we have to change our play style. I really like the fact that CL BB and WP BB are NC now. Now those moves are great with the range, frames and tracking.

I don't like what they did to SE again. 5hit JF should be safe and deal more damage than any other combo after CH WP 3. The only thing I like is that it does close to 60dmg on NH WP 3.

Some more things to add:

SW 1KBK is also negative on hit when the low kick hits =(
CL 214 lots its tracking entirely.

EDIT:

Oh no =( If you guys thought that SE in SC4 is bad... you should check this one. They removed the tracking of every move! SE BBB and SE 5 hit don't track anymore. Everything can be sidestepped to both directions, even SE A+K...
 
...gonna cry...

Please tell me at some point in all this we randomly find something like a Hilde Doom Combo for Ivy to make this all make sense. Really... I will stop playing Ivy if this is her future in SC. If I somehow aquire BD I'm not touching her at all and that sucks because she is my only character I really play competitively with and I think Rock only got great damage buffs but suffers all his inconsistencies and frame data issues.

Already sent NAMCO my opinion on how they fail to fix the issues we complain about spare the Hilde RO nerf...but we saw how that panned out.

Would you actually feel she is bottom tier after all this? I mean a LOT of her best tools just got fucked royal and we get compensated with CL/WP AA/BB NC? That's great and all but hardly makes up for this. And to be honest I'm not impressed with the 5JF at all. I never use 5JF simply because I cannot reliably get it and with all the effort it's unsafe. I would've taken safety over damage buff. Hell with all the effort it takes, I dare say make the thing a frame trap. I'm just looking at everything I love about Ivy getting shat on here. All she has is range no it seems. Her frames seem like crap, her damage is toned down overall, she lost her stance tricks, lots of guaranteed stuuf lost, etc...

The only thing that had made me happy is K is +3 and the AA/BB NC...hurray?!?
 
i dislike her weaker combos after buffing the command throws by making it easier. Id think of these changes are meant for suiting the handheld player. Still its good they removed the glitches. Now we just hope the japanese community would also ask for stance lock for wp to return and reduce cooldown. I like these new CL transitions but i dunno how do we get CL66b to CH for a slow move. If they r going towards sc3, give her 1ab back. :D
 
Ring said:
PSP Go? I wish. I have PSP 2000 PB, with Ta88v3 motherboard which cannot be modded. Lucky me. I'm starting to have some success with CS/SS now. But iCS is stupidly hard (it still has the same range btw) I get it randomly, it feels like at the beginning of SC4. The problem with that small analog thingy is that it's hard to press 1 on it. You think you press 1, but in reality you press 4 or 2. This is a little frustrating.

The window is really big now, so people who can buffer it on d-pad will do it with no problem now. TBH I don't like this change.

Overall she feels interesting. They nerfed things we abused in SC4,and buffed stuff we almost never touched so now we have to change our play style. I really like the fact that CL BB and WP BB are NC now. Now those moves are great with the range, frames and tracking.

I don't like what they did to SE again. 5hit JF should be safe and deal more damage than any other combo after CH WP 3. The only thing I like is that it does close to 60dmg on NH WP 3.

Some more things to add:

SW 1KBK is also negative on hit when the low kick hits =(
CL 214 lots its tracking entirely.

EDIT:

Oh no =( If you guys thought that SE in SC4 is bad... you should check this one. They removed the tracking of every move! SE BBB and SE 5 hit don't track anymore. Everything can be sidestepped to both directions, even SE A+K...
Click to expand...



Please tell me that 6B9K still gives adv...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom