Ivy SCIV->SCV Changes

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Linkrkc said:
I lied. 9B+K is side techable after 6B8 BE. I thought it was free because I asked someone to tech roll it and they said they couldn't tech at all. It does tech catch if they tech one direction (I think backward), though.

I'm going to put down some random notes because I just got home and I have two final exams in six hours. Which I of course neglected studying for so I could play SC5. I'll say more later.
  • I'm not a believer in 4A+B. Lots of moves get auto-GIed, sure, but since it repels the opponent, often they're out of range and able to punish Ivy while she's stuck spinning her whip.
  • CH 4K, B+K works
  • BT 2K was the only thing I could combo from 22B BE. I tried turning around and doing either bK or 2A+B, but neither worked.
  • CS was weird at first, but I got used to it by the end
  • CS and CE damage seem about the same. Save your meter unless you need an unbreakable throw.
  • CE has no auto-GI or super armor properties. (I remember this being speculated because of the blue glow)
  • A+G break window doesn't decrease when you BE it, or if it does it's not by a large amount.
  • Her damage seems low ... but I mainly played against strong characters like Siegfried so I can't say if it's lower than average. Maybe the strong characters just have obscene damage output.
  • GI'ing someone doing a jumping move floats them. This messed me up, haha.
  • 3[K] isn't the same. This game sucks.
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I moved the post to SCIV->SCV changes. I was expecting you to find something new and you didn't disappoint. Can't wait to hear more.

I will update combo list with CH 4K, B+K and 22B BE, BT 2K.

As for 4A+B - my thoughts exactly. Malek still disagrees with me I think. If it wasn't for the aGI pushback this move would have been too good. Now it's random.

GI on TJ moves is taken straight from BD. If I recall correctly, Ivy has one the strongest guaranteed followups here (6B8 and 6B8 BE)
 
I do what I can. I basically went to NEC just to try SC5. I didn't even enter SC4.

If you're adding combos, there's also 22(B), B:6B:4B:6B:4B and CH bK, bK. Since you asked in the combo thread, when the game comes out I suggest formatting it based on the amount of meter used. Something like this:

CH 22A
-meterless combo
-50%
-100%


Anyway, after looking at 350z's post, he covered most everything that I didn't. Other than mentioning 214B evasion isn't that good anymore (I got hit out of it by a Patroklos low that came from the opposite side of Ivy's evade step), most of my other thoughts are about the game in general.

First time I played it, I thought it was still trash. It was just SC4 with super meters. Movement was not as different as expected. There's this weird lag on jumping that wasn't there before (jump moves don't have it). There's still random move whiffing issues. The "feel" was simply not different enough for me to leave with a good first impression.

After some more time with the game, I found that the hit advantage being given on most moves is enough to really force your offense on somebody. Combine that with StepG being gone, and it feels like every defensive option has some element of risk. I couldn't find a fallback option that would get me out of most every situation, which is good because it means reading the opponent is more difficult. Even though SC5 isn't exactly how I hoped it'd be, I think it's interesting enough to be worth playing.
 
I try to test out stuff with Ivy but I was forced to use stick so I couldn't really check to much. But I'll still post my findings.

But I did get a chance to talk to Dasishi and got a lot of info on what to expect with Ivy in SC5

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First the command throw is not changing it will be 28284666. The main reason for the change is they really wanted to make CS more viable in matches, and he believes having the final input as 6 will do that, and I agree.

I ask Dasishi about the extreme end points. And he didn't really give me an answer. I told him that previous version of the inputs had some diagonals inputs when made it a bit easier to buffer. I said as a pad player this input will be more difficult to implement because high chance of inputing incorrectly due to the inputs being at extreme ends. He said that next time they will consider that before coming up with new inputs, but they can't change the inputs because it to far in development at this point.

He also said that there is JF CS and it is only based on speed, not executing 6 and B+G at the same time. The break window will be like in SC4


I feel the 28284 will need to be the most practise part, this needs to be buffered at lighting speed to make CS viable. Where as 6 6 6 can be used as while running move or a single input attack like 6b
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Second I ask what is her gameplay going to be or what is her core element. Dasishi said that it will be trying to add pressure and using that pressure to then use her throw game and CE grab.


Now this is my own opinion:
But I definitely feel that from NEUTRAL Ivy's CE can be duck on reaction, A+G to SS/ yellow flash can be broken or ducked on reaction thus making CS less useful because the opponent would just mash B. BUT I feel if the Ivy player uses FC1B it will be enough to make her throw impossible to react to. Reason is FC1B is safe, does a lot of soul gauge/bar damage, if opponents duck they will eat 80ish damage from FC1B follow up combo.
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Other things that should be noted.

Ivy's 5hit JF the guard crush on the last hit give a lot of advantage, you can move around before the can even block.

You can't simply spam move like in SC4. Most WP moves have longer recovery
2A+B(SC4 SW 3B) will have clean hit properties. Can not spam this like in SC4 it give less block stun but will be a staple move
BB is just so good
1B (BE) will be core element to her game play at short range

A+B third hit was whiffing. Hopefully Dasishi will fix this. I was spamming this move at him to let him know there is a big problem
4A+B is a move that Dasishi said they are still adjusting

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Non game play elements

1) Ivy's face might be changing to make it look more feminine.

2) Her secondary costume will not change unfortunate. Dasishi said he really like the Christmas tree design…
Her 2p outfit should alway be very conservative, look threatening, and be vibrant .
Her SC4 2p was conservative, threatening but was very plain and I guess they wanted to rectify that by making her SC52p vey vibrant and glamorous without make the costume look threading or conservative. I feel that out fit does not fit with her character.

3) Ring this is the worse news. The Epic laugh Ivy had in SC3 looks like it will not be making the return. I tried showing Dasishi that sound clip and saying that Ivys player want that back, but Dasishi doesn't believe me. It would be a nice touch if they added that. The only way I can see Ivy having that laugh again, is if others Ivy players like Malek can mentions it or during the next event with Dasishi this same issue is brought up.




The Ivy SC5 japanese voice actress has changed and she's speaking in an angry tone. It very similar to the tone in the English one.

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Some pictures taken at NEC
AllIvys.jpg

From Left to Right: Yoshi, Woahhzz, Eli, Dasishi,
Bottom:Malek Scud


AllIvys2.jpg

From Left to Right: Linkrkc, Woahhzz, Eli, Malek, Scud
 
Great info, both of you.

Some random questions about Ivy and the game itself:

1) How was the new Just Guard? It's not exactly a "press G at the right moment" anymore, right?
2) What's the approximate damage of 22(B), 5-hit JF?
3) Were people able to Just Guard 5-Hit JF on block? (not only the last hit)
4) Any idea what the "clean hit" property does exactly?

Sad to hear that they don't want to use the evil laugh.
 
new JP evil laugh sounds like someone is tickling her toes.

3[K] isn't the same. This game sucks.
Click to expand...

Everything in SC3 which gives her good options after 3[K] sucks lol. 2A sucks in range. No 66K. 2A+B is meh. no 44A/44B.

Which leads to me to question, how is she suppose to pressure like a grappler anyway?
When she hardly measures her upto Astaroth in terms of frametraps, close in tools. Pls impress us Daishi-san....

PS: never thought I ever see the day to witness TEAM IVY.
 
1. Just Gard is on the Negative Edge of G button according to Team Namco. So you have to release in order to perform JG.
If you release too early, then you'll not be in G and get hit by the move. Too late, you'll guard the move as usual without any JG.

2. Link ?

3. Link ?

4. Clean hit increases damage. Team Namco didn't remember any other changes when I asked them.
 
Ring, JG was hard to do. I know Namco said it was a release thing, but I was trying to punish something and was a little slow and got JG'ed. The guy wouldn't be releasing G if he just threw something unsafe out, right? Anyway, I only got a successful JG once, but I admittedly stopped trying after about ten games.

22(B), 5 hit is roughly 60 damage, or 25% life. Eli recorded a match of me trying to continually do it while getting slashed in the face, haha. The timing is slightly different I think, but that might have been due to the TV.

No one could JG anything consistently. Eventually I'm sure they will be able to JG the 5 hit, because it's still possible to block one hit and get hit by the next.

Clean hit adds 10-15% damage to a "signature attack." It's supposedly totally random, but I'm not so sure. There were situations I could reliably count on a clean hit.


Davo, you can do 6(A) if they try to step, and you'll CH them and pull them back in. Since step catchers are reliable so far, there's a real reason for people to be afraid to move. I mostly used 3(K) against the wall though.

In general, I think Ivy's fine. Tier wise she'll probably be fine too. She's definitely harder to play than she was in SC4, but she still feels viable.

Also, the team Ivy picture is missing you and Ring. =P And Woahhzz told me he's using someone else in SC5.
 
They said something like Clean Hit add 1.2 x normal damage of a certain move. If a moves does 10 damage, clean hit will do 12. Clean hit is random and every character has 2-3 signature move that can be clean hit, even throws. The reason they created Clean Hit, according to them it to give incentive for people to uses those move. But the porperties of the move stay the same only the damage can be affected.

Just Guard is something you when you holding guard and then releasing it at the right time then the attack come down. The term some people call it is negative guarding. You can keep JG all sting attacks, so Ivy 5hit JF can all be JG but people can not do anything in-between because there is not enough time to interrupt the attcks. But even if the last hit of Ivy 5hit JF is JG I think it can not be punish because by the time JG animation is done Ivy should have enough time to guard.

The hottest thing in this game will be JG and CS after. Lets see which one of us will be able to do that first.

I am uploading the Video now of Link doing the 5hit JF. I don't know what the total damage is but I think it 10, 10, 10, 10 30. The guard break give a lot of advantage, I think CS will be a good option after. One the up load is done I'll post the video.

I'm sure Woahhzz will be using Ivy he always says something then does the complete opposite.
Hopefully for SC5 life time we are all able to meet at some big event and the we'd really have a Team Ivy picture. France, US, Poland, Australia, and Canada.

Lol Docvizzo you troll, but that 9B part made my day.
 
What i dont troll, i felt bad for Ring so i tried to implement him to the picture.Well and some comments.

:P

Btw i think fastest input for iCS is actually bad for Ivy. It would be better to get it with the last 6.

The run up into CS/Mid Mixup with the sick dash she has is not going to work with iCS from a farther distance this way...i hope you understand what i mean.
 
I think iCS will be good for punish unsafe move that don't push out to far, or after a blocked attack. Usually after someones attacks are blocked they either block or step, so iCS seem to be a viable option here.
Being fast here will be important and gives incentive for people to train be fast with this input.

CS/Mid Mixup> iCS/Mid Mixup because that white flash/noise was a dead giveaway and against strong players they would duck iCS, this was a problem I felt in SC4. So having the just frame come when inputing 6 and B+G at same time would be bad idea in the long run.

Also with speed being the only factor it will be much easier for an Ivy player to determine if they want iCS or CS.
Too me SC4 CS/iCS always felt kind a random, because sometime when I would want to do CS/Mid Mixup I would alway end up with iCS. And some time when I need the extra damage, and I wanted iCS, CS would come out. So I am glad this change cause CS will be more viable to use.
 
I believe bK is free after 3[K]. I can't say for sure because the one time I tried it I didn't know how fast they were able to tech roll and mistimed it. 3[K] is just really hard to hit on people now. There's an obvious animation shift for the fully charged kick.
 
Looks like I'm not the only one who messed up my first 3[K] combo because of the new stun, haha.

1A+B won't work, it's too slow and there's really no reason to use it. I hope 1K will work as a full tech trap after 3[K].
 
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