Ivy SCIV->SCV Changes

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Age_of_Truth said:
Thanks for your impressions Ring. It is no surprise that you think she's weak, every Ivy player says this every time a new SC comes out XD. Except the humble and reasonable Malek.

Btw I had no trouble doing 5-hit JF in London. The input is 22 [ B ] B : B : B : B : B.You just hit B when the whip hits your opponent. I am not by any means an execution expert but I found it much easier than SCIV version, which I could almost never do.
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It seems something has changed in regards to 5-hit JF then because neither of us could do it.

I'm not saying that Malek is wrong, but if you say his arguments are more reasonable... personally I don't see her strength in 4A+B aGI which whiffs all the time or a slow, high UB even if it does 170 dmg. From a reasonable standpoint she is currently trash compared to SCIV Ivy but like I said, there are still many things we don't know so in the end we will see who was right.

The fact that we say she is weak each time a new game comes out is not true. In fact, this has never happened before SCV I think (spare SC:BD)
 
@ Rezildur... ppl were whining because of stance management. But it didnt take long to figure she was quite broken pre-patched. HERE in SCV, ppl are whining because she has barely anything to work with lol.

Can understand where Malek is coming from and can only hope that the devs are better well received after having closer contact with the French Community.

Still imo, theres no doubt Ivy atm is "TRASH" compared to previous series. While taking in hand the fact other chars like Xianghua and Voldo dont know where they're heading. And the game is more or less incomplete.

demo overview:

-Ability to force frametraps. Only with meter. 22B BE.
-okizeme. stomp is weak. choices to otg pressure is poor. Block 2A+B/1A+B and just fight back.
-Poorer antistep choices. 66A, 6[A], 22[A], 1K.. nothing spectacular.
-Long range threat has been cut down because every tool has a massive opening.
-Mid range space control is limited. 66A, {B}, 1A, 66B is risky. Spam 214B?
-Short range pokes are too short and give poor returns. No SW 6A or CL 2B hurts. 2A hits at point blank range, Best antistep is AA or 1K leads to otg, if you combo with 214B u sacrifice the pressure. 1B BE is not meter worthy to spend until it gets deservable damage.

Its not surprising that an educated Pyrrha/Astaroth will easily destroy an Ivy player. SCV she is too fair. There is no reason for the opponent to be afraid of ducking at CE range or spamming step every time she goes for iFC 1B.
 
You will have to ask Malek about that. I only saw Tago-san on the main stage when he was throwing SCV t-shirts and I almost got crushed by the crowd desperate to catch one.
 
I didn't ask anything to Tago about the game. He had several interviews all over the week end, and I don't think he's the one that I should ask anything.

I'll probably send some msg to Daishi soon or later (thx to Saitoh or Kayane) about particular gameplay request.
My main concerns right now are the damage out of breaking throws, and the fact that it looks like it's not possible to wake up garding low, which garanted some lows in some situation because of this.

But not until 2012. I wanna have more XP before to be able to ask for anything.
And, as more build with new characters will probaly be released till the game come out, I don't wanna ask for things that are already different.
 
I seriously dont understand what Ivy does exactly in sc5. I see a bunch of mediocre pokes and reactable BE SS/CE. I hope you guys can get more experience with the game so I can see if Ivy actually has anything.

It would be nice if:

-Yellow BE flash happens AFTER the break window for SS

-Fix whiff issues for CL A+B (dont know the sc5 input)

-Guarantee 6b9 after 3B at all ranges

-Stomp is safe and +0 or +1 on hit

-Fix Auto GI whiff (4A+B?)

-Make AA not duckable on the 2nd hit
 
Hi. I haven't played SC V in person, only watched demos and videos, but I am really sad and disappointed in what I saw. The fact that now she seems to be some kind of low tier or mid tier is bad, but this (at least theoretically) can be repaired by changes in retail version and/or patches later on. What is really depressing for me is that she last all her stances... I've spent so much time mastering stance managment (of course unlike Ring, I've never really master it in the end) and now all that effort is futile. Same goes for CS input. Ring is saying that it is normal (that Ivy changes with every iteration of SC) but for me it is quite wierd. To create such complex, sophisticated, fascinating character and later on reduce it to such shitty thing. For sure I will not be playing SC so much anymore. I won't risk spending time mastering any interesting character - chances are too high that it will be wasted with next iteration. I think that generally NAMCO has bad strategy with SC games. In Tekken series they keep already existing character and "expand" their move list and possibilities. And they are adding new characters too. It makes old gamers happy (they can keep playing their favourites and time they spent learning them is not futile) and new gamers (or old gamers that wants something new) can always use new characters (like Lars, Bob etc.). Sorry for wall of text but I am not visiting this site too often so I wanted to put everything in one post :) And sorry for my bad english :)
 
Hello PePe; I agree with you, but I am also going to put out a few pointers:
PePe said:
She seems to be some kind of low tier or mid tier
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I would strongly object. In my opinion Coiled State offered a few good tactics less than what Whip/Sword state did. Sure, we had A+B A+K 44A+B and other combos like so but I think they have replaced CL with some more useful moves. Ivy has always be high/top tier, and always will be (I'm not even being a fanboy).

Ivy has been my main since III, so I will of course defend her. But she doesn't age, so I'm sticking with her till:

It's over for you!
 
Poor Ivy... I don´t know why are they doing this to her, maybe I´m wrong but at the moment she seems pretty weak :S

She don´t deserve it in my opinion, SCIV Ivy´s frames were not so good, she was unsafe and negative a lot of times even on hit, the problem was CL movement, SW FC3B safe and SW 2A+K... I don´t know why they don´t try to fix things instead of remove them (like they did with Amy)

I just hope there is an iCS and they bless us with a stance in the final release of the game... Please!
 

So ... I guess I'm the only one who's pretty happy with what's been shown?



Regarding Ivy no longer being complicated, when she was introduced her gimmick was versatility, not complexity. Her sword changing shape allowed her to attack from any distance at any time. She had a lot of moves, yeah, but that was in an effort to make her versatile. Not to try and make her hard to play.

Segmenting moves into stances, as they did with SC3 and took farther in SC4, is really a new thing. The people saying that consolidating the moves into one stance "isn't Ivy" are off base. It's actually a return to form, and one that I'm looking forward to.

Even if it feels like SC4. =P
 
Linkrkc said:
So ... I guess I'm the only one who's pretty happy with what's been shown?

Regarding Ivy no longer being complicated, when she was introduced her gimmick was versatility, not complexity. Her sword changing shape allowed her to attack from any distance at any time. She had a lot of moves, yeah, but that was in an effort to make her versatile. Not to try and make her hard to play.

Segmenting moves into stances, as they did with SC3 and took farther in SC4, is really a new thing. The people saying that consolidating the moves into one stance "isn't Ivy" are off base. It's actually a return to form, and one that I'm looking forward to.

Even if it feels like SC4. =P
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Link--I forgot how much you used to read my mind. I was going to say something like this...
 
I don't necessarily 'like', but I'm not the slightest bit gloomy about her SC5 iteration. She looks to play fine still, with potential still being there.

Thanks again to those providing info. :sc4ivy1:
 
i realise now that im not the only one thinking currently SCV ivy looks pretty weak

i was seeing it from the start that she would be a lot weaker and i am still seeing it now,thats just my opinion but i know im not the only one thinking it
lets just hope overall after time we realise that she ends up ok

if she was weak and was fun to use and/or hard to learn or use then i would be ok with it i guess(i play tira after all)
but it seems that she wont be any fun to use anymore

im hoping that there is going to still be some learning involved in ivy,not her becoming totally noob friendly

another thing i have noticed is she seems to lack a lot more long range than before,she seems to be a close range fighter now with mid range options too ofcourse with a few long range moves,but i have barely seen WP 1_2_3 B+K be used as this is one of her long range moves she has,all i have seen used is WP 6B+K they have removed too many mid-long range moves it seems,
youll have to excuse me,i only know SC4 move inputs atm

i guess her only having one stance is ok,that means her complexity is gone,but the way moves have been removed and she has less mid and long range options now she doesnt seem very diverse and versatile anymore,which is really bad,shes like a normal character now but worse,other normal characters have sub stances and now ivy doesnt have any
and i hate how they seem to have unnecesarily nerfed everything
 
I'm going to have to agree with Link here on the stance thing.

I think (read: hope ;) ) its going to be fine. The devs know what they are doing. They aren't idiots.
 
I don´t mind if she gets simplified or merged into one state of sword like she´s now... but I still think that she deserves one stance, maybe one similar to SC2 stances, with fluid and fast transitions and decents low options, camon! SW FC 3B removed, 1K? less range and +unsafe than in SCIV (I think) 1A+B? (too linear, not much unsafe but slow as hell) 1A, now you can only be able to do the second hit in CH and the first is negative on hit (I think), really? this is too bad...

now Ivy is a close range fighter like kerrod says, her long range attacks can be easily killed by step and she doesn´t have very good DMG from them, so now Ivy is basicly run to the oponent with the CS buffered, or run to the oponent and hope that your 2A+B hits him on CH, if get blocked try to spam 214B or 4A+B to aGI?... run to the oponent and grab him with A+G BE/B+G mix-up... pretty boring for Ivy in my opinion.
Something´s wrong with Ivy, A+BA whiff all the time, 4A+B aGI doesn´t works correctly and is not even NC...

I don´t know,let´s wait and see how she is in the next build...

Maybe I´m totally wrong, I played her in the old build and didn´t test a lot of things... this is just my opinion and I know we haven´t got the game yet, so all of this can change, but at the moment this is what I think of Ivy, and I care of her because is a fantastic character and I will probably main her if there are not umbrellas around...
 
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