Kilik videos

Something-Unique said:
Yeah I want to get some more games in with MTFighter it was challenging.

I can believe its easier offline but I still believe that damn match is a pain when someone is using her right. Also yeah we should get a room going with me, u, Woahhzz and MTFighter.



Hayate:

All of what is stated above has merit but I don't want you to confuse abuse that is obvious and very readable with a difficult matchup that is even more difficult with discretion and semi-abusable moves.

What i'm basically saying is I agree with u on someone being more difficult to fight when then use alot more moves but the Ivy player can increase effectiveness by being more abusive to some extent with the moves that somewhat negate Kilik.

Asura is an excellent option if you read right at 80-Damage (JF) you can kill someone with 3 alone however it isn't the defining factor in this matchup and overall its not enough. I would know since most players believe I use Asura the best out of any Kilik player their is in the community.

If u ever have time I think u should seek out Woahhzz online an see if the connection is decent to get a general idea of the problems i'm having because I feel his Ivy is better than the one provided in the vids.

Let me know the results!!
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SU, I would pay money to see you play LinkRKC's Ivy. He has the best Ivy I've ever seen and he is seriously good. I don't think he has ever lost a tournament he has been too. He did lose a match in the last tourney I went to though, to a Kilik player, although he won in the end. After the tourney him and I played some casuals and I got one match off of him too so that leads me to believe Kilik is a good counter to Ivy.

Btw, when you do GB Asura with the PS3 pad do you use the D-pad or the analog stick for the 41236 movement? I find it easier to use the analog stick, for regular Asura anyway. I still can't do GB Asura, not to mention FOTD.

One thing that I think would make learning moves easier in SC4 would be an input record option in the practice mode like they have in Virtua Fighter. It really helps to know exactly what you pressed as opposed to what you think you pressed.
 
Something-Unique said:
Side Note:

So how are both of u doing now with the new info on (JF) Asura.

I can consistently do it at 80%-100% now after a 3 Week pipeline from both P1 and P2 side.

It's beautiful against some characters on block as well (Hint: Hilde) provided the player doesn't have the reflex to counter that way because at -17-Frames her damage is pathetic outside of a 50/50 throw game and it only takes 6 hits on block to reck the Soul Guage.
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Still can't do it consitently.

X360:
When i'am on X360 pad with HORI PAD using the D-PAD, i can do it at the 2P Side with this method :
B+K....wait...at the impact i do : 6b41236+B, i do it so fast that i do the JF Asura 50% of time

At the 1P Side i have only have 30% success.

PS3:
I never manage to do it with D-PAD... only with Analogic Stick. But with the analogic i can do it with this method :

B+K~6B...wait impact .... 41236+B fast, only have 30% success but both side.

I don't have time to train myself only on Asura JF, so i'am keeping this time, i will end working on all match up and then only improve my Asura Game.

Here my question for you :

- Do use the Anlogic or D Pad on the PS3 controller? or an Arcade Stick?
- Are you really doing it "slow" and just press 6+B ? Can you do it with différent timing mehtod of B+K~6B? (or B+K (wait) 6B~41236B ?)
 
I'm not as consistent as I'd like to be, but I am getting it like 2 out of 5 tries (3 on a good day) now...which is MUCH better than 0 lol.

I'm using a PS3 pad; it seems that you can do the B+K-->6B with any timing you want...
 
Raidenwins said:
SU, I would pay money to see you play LinkRKC's Ivy. He has the best Ivy I've ever seen and he is seriously good. I don't think he has ever lost a tournament he has been too. He did lose a match in the last tourney I went to though, to a Kilik player, although he won in the end. After the tourney him and I played some casuals and I got one match off of him too so that leads me to believe Kilik is a good counter to Ivy.

Btw, when you do GB Asura with the PS3 pad do you use the D-pad or the analog stick for the 41236 movement? I find it easier to use the analog stick, for regular Asura anyway. I still can't do GB Asura, not to mention FOTD.

One thing that I think would make learning moves easier in SC4 would be an input record option in the practice mode like they have in Virtua Fighter. It really helps to know exactly what you pressed as opposed to what you think you pressed.
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Who is LinkRKC's (I know I her the name link somewhere before in this community just not sure)? Anyway bring it on. I welcome any match and especially against good players. Anyone can win some or one match against top players. It's the consistentsy that matters.

I do Asura (JF) on PS3 pad with the D-PAD no analog. I can't use analog for fighting games. I play horrible on them which is why I don't mess with arcades.

The input record option for Soul Calibur would be extremely welcome.

Hayate said:
Here my question for you :

- Do use the Anlogic or D Pad on the PS3 controller? or an Arcade Stick?
- Are you really doing it "slow" and just press 6+B ? Can you do it with différent timing mehtod of B+K~6B? (or B+K (wait) 6B~41236B ?)
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I do Asura (JF) on PS3 pad with the D-PAD no analog. I can't use analog for fighting games. I play horrible on them which is why I don't mess with arcades.

Here goes another explanation:

There are some JF's lik Setsuka for instance that have to be done the moment the actual hit connects.

With Kilik's JF u have up until the moment the 6B connects in the same way as Setsuka's JF connects after B+K.

The longer you choose to start the motion the faster you have to do it because of the above reason. So if you start after u input 6B after B+K you can manage how fast or slow you do the 41236 motion at you choice but remember the motion has to be consistent. in other words 41236 have to be done in synch.

I was hoping that I would have it down 100% by now for the upcoming MA regionals but it's only at 80-100% so I don't know how much I will use it in the tourney.

Here goes another hint with Asura.

Start using the tech jump application the same way u would use it for countering. It opens up more options for u to land it in matches and get that 80-Damage.
 
Ok perfect I would like to see it because i'm liking your stylish Kilik from these Asty vids.

However without doubt unlike the Kilik vs. Astaroth situation I had in the past. Ivy is definitely a bad matchup for Kilik and I personally believe its 70/30 possible 65/35 in Ivy's favor.

There is almost nothing he can do better than her and she seems to have moves that negate step as well and stun u in the process though I forget what commands those are. It is really a difficult matchup.

Other than that Kilik has no bad matchups except possibly Xiangua which is up for debate and if she is its rather negligible.
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Kilik's Asura dance alone, nullify a lot of character's mixups *upclose*. Ivy in particular? Not much difference. If she tries to throw or do a mid on advantage u kno what to do. Fighting at close to mid is ideal. You can make an Ivy who's in Sword state eat WS B bcos her SW range is really that bad. A good Kilik player can really frustrate ivy upclose.

With Ivy's Sword 6, (the fast stab into GB) if u eat it and immediately shake you have advantage over her. Once u simply shake do a fast poke or Asura. It beats whatever she does next. If u do get GB off 6 she's at +4.
 
Something-Unique: Linkrkc has been one of the strongest players in this community since he started playing in SC2. Him and Thugish Pond were rivals all throughout SC3. So don't just think Raidenwins is naming some random ass Ivy player who he thinks is good to challenge you. The dude is a stone cold killer, ask KDZaster and the rest of the NY crew about him if you don't know.
 
KrayzieCD said:
Something-Unique: Linkrkc has been one of the strongest players in this community since he started playing in SC2. Him and Thugish Pond were rivals all throughout SC3. So don't just think Raidenwins is naming some random ass Ivy player who he thinks is good to challenge you. The dude is a stone cold killer, ask KDZaster and the rest of the NY crew about him if you don't know.
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Hahaha, yes. LinkRKC is definitely not some random ass Ivy player. I started playing SC last year and have been to 3 tournaments so far where Link competed and he won all 3. And those were not some small local tourneys with 5 guys from the neighborhood. We've had people from out of state coming and competing. Sadly he only plays offline so the only way to play him is to travel.
 
Davo87 said:
Kilik's Asura dance alone, nullify a lot of character's mixups *upclose*. Ivy in particular? Not much difference. If she tries to throw or do a mid on advantage u kno what to do. Fighting at close to mid is ideal. You can make an Ivy who's in Sword state eat WS B bcos her SW range is really that bad. A good Kilik player can really frustrate ivy upclose.

With Ivy's Sword 6, (the fast stab into GB) if u eat it and immediately shake you have advantage over her. Once u simply shake do a fast poke or Asura. It beats whatever she does next. If u do get GB off 6 she's at +4.
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Totally diasagree with your post and especially in regards to WS B vs. SW. 7/8/9 SW B 13-Frames -17-Frames into good damage and oki with punishment being range dependent vs. WS B 21-Frames + however many frames it takes to duck into it leaves alot of room for Ivy to execute.

Also in regards to Asura it is and always be a counter and because of that in combination with it being heavily punishable it can never be the defining factor in a matchup unless that particular opponent is readable. Especially in this case of top players who can react at a misjudgement on Asura through baiting etc. can GI the second hit and punish. I do it all the time as well as others.

Finally I didn't know that about 6 and thanks for the information.

KrayzieCD said:
Something-Unique: Linkrkc has been one of the strongest players in this community since he started playing in SC2. Him and Thugish Pond were rivals all throughout SC3. So don't just think Raidenwins is naming some random ass Ivy player who he thinks is good to challenge you. The dude is a stone cold killer, ask KDZaster and the rest of the NY crew about him if you don't know.
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Ok cool looks like I have another person to challenge for a money match in SCIV at EVO if I attend. Also I now remember where I heard his name. I heard his name at NEC9 before my money match vs. Thugish_Pond when people were telling me who roughly the top 3 all time SC players were. Both Thugish_Pond and Link were mentioned up there.

Raidenwins said:
Hahaha, yes. LinkRKC is definitely not some random ass Ivy player. I started playing SC last year and have been to 3 tournaments so far where Link competed and he won all 3. And those were not some small local tourneys with 5 guys from the neighborhood. We've had people from out of state coming and competing. Sadly he only plays offline so the only way to play him is to travel.
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Cool I have no problem travelling but it would have to be to events where its cost effective to travel or major events like EVO and Nationals.
 
Something-Unique said:
KOGA Tournament Vids:




I hope you enjoy. Not my best but pretty good.
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S-U, great Kilik! You can do GB Asura and once you even did FOTD into GB Asura. That's mad impressive!

With that said, I had a few pointers/questions:

1. A number of times you landed 1, 1B but didn't capitalize on that in any way. I believe 2K is guaranteed after 1, 1B.

2. After 3B, B you kept doing 6, 6B. That's nice for mind games once in a while but why not just go for the 6A, A, A guaranteed damage?

3. After counter-hit 1B you do [2]_[8]B, A+K. I am not sure which one is more damage but you can also do 3B, B, 6A, A, A. It's all guaranteed on counter-hit.

4. It seems that virtually all high-level Kilik players have written off 6A+B as a noob move and never use it. I think it's time to, dare I say it, abandon the elitist mentality and reconsider its usefulness. I personally find it a great move for the following reasons:

-- it's safe on block and pushes out the opponent far away from you so that they can't punish you in any
way.
-- if it connects (especially on counter-hit) it does a LOT of damage.
-- it has very good ring out properties. If it connects on counter-hit anywhere near the edge of the ring it's bye-bye,
or as I like to 'IN the water'. Their back doesn't even have to directly face the edge of the ring, i.e. it rings out
sideways too.
-- it has a long range, sometimes deceptively so in the sense that it looks like it can't reach
you, but it does. Also, sometimes people fall for its last hit because they forget that they have
to keep blocking until all 6 hits are through.
-- the only thing to watch out for is not to get side-stepped while doing it. That will leave you
open for a world of hurt.
 
Thanks: I can do GB Asura alot more than that I just chose not to use it mostly because I mess it up every now and again and didn't really want to risk loosing damage until I can get to around 95% of the time.

1. 11B: Yeah I just prefer tech traps after 11B that's all.

2. Actually some of the times I did 3BB was by accident trying to do FC 3B as fast as possible lol. Anyway 6AAA is not guaranteed. The last A can be air controlled and 66B does the same damage as 6AA plus gives oki.

3. The only combos you should be doing after 1B is 22_88 B A+K or 22_88 B 3kB since they are always consistent unlike 66KKB, 66B. Again 6AAA is not guaranteed the last part can always be air controlled.

4. 6A+B I will never use lol. The main reason is the last one on your list
"-- the only thing to watch out for is not to get side-stepped while doing it. That will leave you
open for a world of hurt."
 
SU i just watched you Match against KDZ in the other Thread....

Can you tell me WTF was going on with all the 1As you ate? I think you almost never blocked it and when you didnt punish....

And i really do think you should use much more Asura against Cass, what is there that you have to fear?

Nobody is going to punish all Asuras on Block, i know KDZ did some Antimoves like 66K and AA, but also used a lot of Midstuff, but you didnt even bother to counter him....all you have to fear is a 66K airhit, maybe a AA Air Hit, but you would counter all his 2As, BBs, 236Bs, iWSBs,2B+K for chs, BK Frametraps jump over Lows, avoid the Throws.....you used it way to less, honestly....risk Reward is still on your side, since he is definetely not punishing every blocked Asura...

Ive played the best National Kilik like 3 weeks ago in Berlin, and he really doesnt give a shit about some AAs ans High Kicks and keeps on doing Asura on reaction...you could have made it way more difficult for KDZ imo...
 
I have no idea and I have been saying the same thing both during the match after the match and after I saw the vids. I have never had a problem blocking 1A offline. I simply don't understand and i'm a little pissed because I felt like that made the difference in the matches because almsot every round was close and he stole a couple with 1A. Strangest thing ever. I'm thinking online had been fcuking with my reaction or he simply made me stumble under pressure. Though I have been under pressure so many times before I question that as the reason. The two times I did it was so instinct related that I didn't even notice after getting hit with it so much.

Yeah this match would mark the first time I have toned down the use of Asura overall but it was still present. Plus I simply don't use it that much anymore unless its under certain situations like Hilde/Voldo.

It is what it is and he won so that's all that matters. However I know I made him work for it.
 
Something-Unique said:
Yeah this match would mark the first time I have toned down the use of Asura overall but it was still present. Plus I simply don't use it that much anymore unless its under certain situations like Hilde/Voldo.
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Well imo thats a huge mistake. Playing Kilik against Closerange Characters without Asura or "toned down" Asura is not a smart decision imo. If you have a Move with ridicolous properties that beats out 80% of her Movelist including Throws and Lows like 1K, use it.

I honestyl dont see why Asura should be toned down against Cassandra.
 
SU great matches. I particularly enjoyed watching you demolish Hilde, I got to learn to do that.

Against Cass I would have utilized a little WS A when WS B and FC 3B kept getting stepped. It makes the oponent think twice about constantly stepping. Also I actually think Asura was used a little too much. KDZ seemed to be too prepared for dealing with it. In that situation I think it's best to use only in guaranteed situations.

But all around great job, you were always great but you've definitely taken your game to another level. Can't wait to see where your at by Nats(definitely try to get to get to a regional your one of the players who should be there) or Evo.
 
Docvizzo:

Personally just throwing out asura is reckless in my eyes. Even if he couldn't punish it spamming it will only hinder myself from getting better. Just looking at the videos I already see some things to change and refine in my game.

I could have zoned him out alot better but for whatever the reason from that vid I chose to press his Cass as well with Kilik. That in itself alone is retarded.

DmanXIIX:

Thanks for the advice I may consider throwing that move in my game as I don't use it at all. I also need to start using 1_3 A+B more to as that would have helped neutralize the stepping.

Yeah I plan to have no holes in my game by EVO.
 
Well at least we both agree that that Vid was not good at all, you gotta search for the reasons yourself.

It seems like you turtle a lot, you dont set up pressure at all, Kilik has on of the best Movelists, but you are playing a 5-Move Turtling Game, which is IN MY OPINION a waste of what Kilik is capable of. Almost any Move he has is good for some Situations, some Characters would KILL for Moves you do not use at all.
I dont say you should Throw out brainless Asuras (Well honestyl you should :) ), but you are giving him ALL options he needs to win. You dont limit his Movelist at all with Asura, you didnt use spacing very well, you didnt use his Blocktraps, messed up a lot of FOTDs, and it seems like you love to backdash, but maybe you should try more Step G against her. That again would force him to use more Antisteps, which is not Cassys best part of her game.

Like i said, i dont want to attack you, just give some critics, but it looks like we both agree that some aspects of your game were pretty weak in that Match.

You KNOW you have to change something, i cant see why you should win next time if you dont plan some major modification in your Anti-Game.

Kind regards. doc.
 
docvizzo said:
Well at least we both agree that that Vid was not good at all, you gotta search for the reasons yourself.

It seems like you turtle a lot, you dont set up pressure at all, Kilik has on of the best Movelists, but you are playing a 5-Move Turtling Game, which is IN MY OPINION a waste of what Kilik is capable of. Almost any Move he has is good for some Situations, some Characters would KILL for Moves you do not use at all.
I dont say you should Throw out brainless Asuras (Well honestyl you should :) ), but you are giving him ALL options he needs to win. You dont limit his Movelist at all with Asura, you didnt use spacing very well, you didnt use his Blocktraps, messed up a lot of FOTDs, and it seems like you love to backdash, but maybe you should try more Step G against her. That again would force him to use more Antisteps, which is not Cassys best part of her game.

Like i said, i dont want to attack you, just give some critics, but it looks like we both agree that some aspects of your game were pretty weak in that Match.

You KNOW you have to change something, i cant see why you should win next time if you dont plan some major modification in your Anti-Game.

Kind regards. doc.
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Man, you really ripped into him. I fear what would you say about my Kilik. lol. Seriously though, his (Kilik) game was really good. Probably not the best, but out of a 100 I'd give him about 95. I mean, the guy did GB Asura a bunch of times, FOTD into Asura several times, and regular Asura many times and his Asura never got punished when blocked. And that under pressure no less.

Other than that he didn't whiff all that much and had an overall solid Kilik strategy. Probably a little better guarding and some GIs here and there would have produced better results against Cassandra, but again, great games overall. Maybe he just lost his concentration the last few matches, it happens. Even when he lost, the matches were very even. Also, remember he did exceptionally well against Astaroth, who is a much worse match-up for Kilik than Cassandra.

One thing that somebody mentioned though that I thought was a very valid point was to switch up between WR B and WR A after 2A or 2K. I used to exclusively do WR B and, well, got killed a lot because of it. Now I mostly do WR A after 2A or 2K, because my main "sparring partner" is so good that he can side-step WR B on reaction so really there is no point in ever using it (against him anyway).

Just one other pointer I'd throw out there for S-U. I didn't see you ever use [2]_[8]A, B and [2]_[8]A, A, (A). Those two make for some very effective mind games. Against high-level players (arghh, Fuzion) that can see the A or B and block or jump it on reaction what I like to do is [2]_[8] A..stop..Throw.

That really makes me want to get a capture card so I can tape some of my matches and post them here for you guys to critique. I am anxious for some feedback.
 
Raidenwins said:
Man, you really ripped into him. I fear what would you say about my Kilik. lol. Seriously though, his (Kilik) game was really good. Probably not the best, but out of a 100 I'd give him about 95. I mean, the guy did GB Asura a bunch of times, FOTD into Asura several times, and regular Asura many times and his Asura never got punished when blocked. And that under pressure no less.

Other than that he didn't whiff all that much and had an overall solid Kilik strategy. Probably a little better guarding and some GIs here and there would have produced better results against Cassandra, but again, great games overall. Maybe he just lost his concentration the last few matches, it happens. Even when he lost, the matches were very even. Also, remember he did exceptionally well against Astaroth, who is a much worse match-up for Kilik than Cassandra.
.
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Hey, of course this is critics at a high level, i mean he got second in a pretty good area, so he has to be good of course :) But there is always something that can be improved, even for pros...we just share some opinions in a civil way...

Because Asura never gets punished 100% its such a good move, he could use it a lot more against Closerange chars with good Mids. And when KDZ starts spamming AA and 66K as Anti-Moves, damn there is 236, which catches High Kicks and her AA for good damage. Kilik has ANYTHING wo win this match imo, did he even try to counter KDZs AAs once? So the REAL anti-Asura Move 66K is left, but also for this there are options. 4B+K will evade, so will 1B...of course its always a mindgame, but I had the feeling KDZ was the one who has the Mindgames, not SU.

FOTD into Asura is nothing special, that really doesnt impress me at all, since its basic Skill Input . Lol i can do this after Training it 15 minutes very solid and im not a Kilikplayer. Hell i know people who do Asura GB 90% of the time ONLINE. Of course its toruney situation and i know you mess up stuff when youre nervous, thats absolutely ok and normal. As a Cervy Player i know what training inputs over and over again is like, but thats what i expect from anyone who claims beeing top with his Character.

And Yes Astaroth is a tough Matchup, but there are way better Astas than KDZ imo.
 
docvizzo said:
Hey, of course this is critics at a high level, i mean he got second in a pretty good area, so he has to be good of course :) But there is always something that can be improved, even for pros...we just share some opinions in a civil way...

Because Asura never gets punished 100% its such a good move, he could use it a lot more against Closerange chars with good Mids. And when KDZ starts spamming AA and 66K as Anti-Moves, damn there is 236, which catches High Kicks and her AA for good damage. Kilik has ANYTHING wo win this match imo, did he even try to counter KDZs AAs once? So the REAL anti-Asura Move 66K is left, but also for this there are options. 4B+K will evade, so will 1B...of course its always a mindgame, but I had the feeling KDZ was the one who has the Mindgames, not SU.

FOTD into Asura is nothing special, that really doesnt impress me at all, since its basic Skill Input . Lol i can do this after Training it 15 minutes very solid and im not a Kilikplayer. Hell i know people who do Asura GB 90% of the time ONLINE. Of course its toruney situation and i know you mess up stuff when youre nervous, thats absolutely ok and normal. As a Cervy Player i know what training inputs over and over again is like, but thats what i expect from anyone who claims beeing top with his Character.

And Yes Astaroth is a tough Matchup, but there are way better Astas than KDZ imo.
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Hmm, good call about the 236, i.e. MO. Now that I think about it I don't remember him using that stance at all. MO A is a great Mid and if it connects it gives a great combo in 46B, 6A,A,A or simply B,B. It's also pretty safe on block. MO B is a great defensive move, it's safe on block (if they can manage to block it, because it comes out fast and is hard to block on reaction), and automatically backdashes, AND rings out.

MO K is 0 frames on block! If blocked follow-up with 6A,A,A for some awesome counter-hit damage. When they wisen up to that instead of 6A,A,A just throw them. If it connects follow-up with 6B+K,2K for some guaranteed damage (that's a combo). And of course MO auto-GIs all horizontals. Great stance all together!

Of course, Kilik has so many moves that it's unreasonable to expect somebody to utilize every single one of them. The way I see it the great variety of moves is there to facilitate different styles of play more than anything else. This is not MKDC where characters have 1 melee Mid (!!) (Raiden does anyway) and you HAVE to utilize that one move if you want to have a prayer of winning.

As far as FOTD not impressing you, well, I have a friend who did it on the 3rd try after looking up the command for it, but that doesn't mean it's not impressive. That move is absurdly hard to do. If 1% of all players can do it easily and the rest 99% can't that doesn't make it easy. For me personally that's the hardest move I've had to do in any fighting game to date. I think Ivy's command throws may be harder but I am not an Ivy player so I can't speak for that.
 
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