Leixia Matchup Chart Discussion Thread

My list for the moment:

Aeon -5:5
Algol - 4:6
å-Patroklos - 3:7
Astaroth - 4:6
Cervantes -3:7
Dampierre -
Ezio -
Hilde - 5:5, not sure
Ivy - 4:6
Maxi -
Mitsurugi - 3:7
Natsu - 4:6
Nightmare - 4:6 or 5:5, but I feel like Nightmare has the edge
Patroklos - 4:6
Pyrrha - 4:6
Pyrrha-Ω - 4:6
Raphael - 6:4
Siegfried - 5:5, maybe even slight advantage for Siegfried
Tira - 5:5 not sure anymore, maybe 4:6
Viola -
Voldo - probably 4:6, nor sure
Xiba -4:6
Yoshimitsu - 4:6
ZWEI - 5:5 or 6:4

That was my first list I posted 2 months ago, and there's not much I'd change now. I marked the changes red.
Aeon is probably even, Xiba 4:6, ZWEI 5:5 or 6:4.

Basically, I say that she has
- a clear disadvantage against Alpha, Mitsu and Cervantes, so 3:7
- an even match-up against Aeon, Hilde, Siegfried (maybe Tira as well, really not sure), so 5:5
- a slight advantage against Raphael and maybe ZWEI 6:4
- a slight disadvantage against everybody else (all other top, high and mid tiers), so 4:6

I have no idea about Dampierre, Maxi, Ezio and I'm not sure about the Viola and Voldo matchup.


EDIT: I don't really get why some people say: "Leixia vs [insert character] is a slight disadvantage for Leixia", and then they give it a 5:5. Why? 5:5 means even, and 4:6 means slight disadvantage.
 
First, no way is Natsu worse for her than Cervantes. Second, which chart do you agree with (mostly) and why/why not? You did great at CEO but we'll need more than that to justify any claims.
:/ come on now you know I have to provide an explanation but I was dead yesterday lol I'll post in a bit.
 
natsu vs leixia gets rough for leixia due to all of the -10 moves that get AA or A:6'd that are safe against the rest of the cast.

FC 3B
AA
66K
4A+B
WS A
22A
 
Why don't you let us know what you think of some Leixia match-ups you're familiar with, dear Sacharja? :)

Meh.

vs Algol 4:6
vs Ezio 5:5
vs Hilde 5:5
vs Mitsu 4:6
vs Night 5:5
vs Sieg 5:5
vs Pat 4:6

If you guys want me to elaborate, just ask.
 
Meh.

vs Algol 4:6
vs Ezio 5:5
vs Hilde 5:5
vs Mitsu 4:6
vs Night 5:5
vs Sieg 5:5
vs Pat 4:6

If you guys want me to elaborate, just ask.
Hey man I like your lists :D I think my lists is just.....iffy on a few chars but yeah can you elaborate why ezio and leixia is 5:5?
 
natsu vs leixia gets rough for leixia due to all of the -10 moves that get AA or A:6'd that are safe against the rest of the cast.

66K and FC 3B are really the only moves on that list you need to worry about abusing. If space WS A correctly (at mid range and not in her face) she can't punish it. Same with 22A. 4A+B isn't really that good on block anyway since many characters have answers to it. Even 66K can be made safe with proper spacing, like after 6KK hits 66K can't be punished. This is also assuming Natsu is on point every time as a frame late results in a 6KK punish.
 
Hey man I like your lists :D I think my lists is just.....iffy on a few chars but yeah can you elaborate why ezio and leixia is 5:5?

Leixia is faced with the usual disadvantage in damage (tho Ezio depends on meter to make that apparent). She outpokes him and can hold her own against him at midrange.

No zoning advantage means that Leixia has a lot of room for controlling the pace in this matchup. She can also punish him much better than the other way around (although he is remarkably safe for a character that low on the tier list) and his AA and BB (BE) have serious whiffing issues, especially against her.

Apart from whiff punishing, Ezio depends on oki and ch's to get his damage in. And if Leixia is careful he never really gets the opportunity to exploit either much.

The only reason this isn't advantageous for Leixia, is - once again - the damage difference. 1K~6B BE whiff punishes and ch iWS A~6B BE hurt like hell. His regular anti-step isn't anything to scoff at either and his guard damage is actually comparable to her own.

Lol, ok.


Could you elaborate on these two matchups perhaps? I think NM has a slight advantage 4/6 and Pat is the even one.

Pat is a ridiculous character.
The only reason he isn't top tier, is that he has trouble dealing with spacing. This is never an issue vs Leixia. Imagine fighting Mitsu, without the midrange disadvantage, but with stronger, safer mids and a weaker, but more spammable low. Leixia may outpoke him by a small margin, but she simply can't compete with the damage of his spammable attacks and can't punish his 1K hard enough to ever really deter him from using it.

Night can be troublesome because of the high meterless damage difference and his space control. Speedwise he's actually at a disadvantage from midrange onwards and almost all of his most basic pokes (well, and pretty much anything else) are punishable by her, not to mentioned she has very good tools to deal with his stancegame. This matchup plays out very differently in practice depending on which playstyle the opposing players prefer. For the most part, whoever tries to enter the opponents sphere of control first, is at a disadvantage. Overall it is an even thing. If Night has an advantage, it's extremely slight.

And why only 4:6 against Mitsu? He's the worst of the worst imo.

While Mitsu combines the aspect of outspacing Leixia with the damage advantage, it's not nearly as severe (in both aspects) as against other characters. Mitsu is so good because he's extremely well-rounded. As such, this matchup mostly plays pretty annoyingly for Leixia, because she never really has an advantage in anything but spure speed at closerange. At the same time he doesn't fuck her up like say Algol or Cervy for guessing wrong, nor does he space her as effectively as characters like Sieg or Asta.
 
Pat is a ridiculous character.
The only reason he isn't top tier, is that he has trouble dealing with spacing. This is never an issue vs Leixia. Imagine fighting Mitsu, without the midrange disadvantage, but with stronger, safer mids and a weaker, but more spammable low. Leixia may outpoke him by a small margin, but she simply can't compete with the damage of his spammable attacks and can't punish his 1K hard enough to ever really deter him from using it.

I agree with most of this. The only parts I'm iffy on is the 1K and midrange issue. I think Leixia can actually play the midrange space game pretty well against Pat since his midrange anti-step is fairly weak and her poke game, as you mentioned, is superior. His damage is of course far more rewarding but his spammable tools like 66B, 3B, 1K etc are mostly linear and/or ineffective at midrange.

6KK doesn't do a bunch of damage as a 1K punish, but it's still a good position for her to be in. Even if 1K hits, it becomes a mixup for both at that point since she's able to escape his quicker followups with 44B. At the least, this would limit his followup options at advantage.

Night can be troublesome because of the high meterless damage difference and his space control. Speedwise he's actually at a disadvantage from midrange onwards and almost all of his most basic pokes (well, and pretty much anything else) are punishable by her, not to mentioned she has very good tools to deal with his stancegame. This matchup plays out very differently in practice depending on which playstyle the opposing players prefer. For the most part, whoever tries to enter the opponents sphere of control first, is at a disadvantage. Overall it is an even thing. If Night has an advantage, it's extremely slight.

She actually does have a little trouble vs NSS without a CE ready. NSS A on block allows him to backstep in stance to avoid 3B+K, 6A+B, 44A etc if he spaces it right. and his 44{B} transition is major advantage on block so that even 6A+B and most TCs get beat by the kick.

The other issue is he can wall carry so easily. Leixia can deal with his midrange like you said, but one mistake here leads to damage, and more importantly, positional control. Not mention he has an even stronger Guard burst game than she does now. These are the biggest reasons why I'd say it's not even.
 
Cervantes vs Leixia

His best moves:
Geo Da Ray -17 on block Lex punish
Pirate's Cross -18 on block Lex punish
Cannonball Lifter -13 Lex punish
Shattering Man -16 Lex Punish
Bibbering Torpedo -15 Lex Punish
Bile Lunges -14 Lex Punish
Devastator -12 Lex punish
Lagging Wave <--Lmfao! -12 Lex punish
WR K (Anchor Revive Kick) -12 Lex Punish
BBB -_- Lex rapes.

ENTIRE MOVE LIST ^ Lex punish >.>

He has OKAY mix up game, he's pretty slow, OKAY guard burst game...

So yeah 7:3 Lex favor or 6:4 at best.
 
Cervantes vs Leixia

His best moves:
Geo Da Ray -17 on block Lex punish
Pirate's Cross -18 on block Lex punish
Cannonball Lifter -13 Lex punish
Shattering Man -16 Lex Punish
Bibbering Torpedo -15 Lex Punish
Bile Lunges -14 Lex Punish
Devastator -12 Lex punish
Lagging Wave <--Lmfao! -12 Lex punish
WR K (Anchor Revive Kick) -12 Lex Punish
BBB -_- Lex rapes.

ENTIRE MOVE LIST ^ Lex punish >.>

He has OKAY mix up game, he's pretty slow, OKAY guard burst game...

So yeah 7:3 Lex favor or 6:4 at best.
yep i could not agree more i dont know where on earth people got leixia vs Cervantes is in his favour no way.
if anything cervantes has huge problems vs leixia she has range to compete with his mid range game hes pretty slow.
he is also very unsafe i think cervantes is over rated big time people just look at whats on paper to determine match ups.
all this stalk and about cervantes and you never see this guy at a tourney or making top 8 anyway be it in france america japan.
i really dont know the cervy's people have been playing but i thing leixia beats him easily.
even Cervantes playing will agree with me here im mean they have even complained about the match up.
i also dont see how mitsu and alpha are 6 4 but oh well everyone has their opinion.
according to tago san leixia has the same range as mitsu.
 
Cervantes vs Leixia
ENTIRE MOVE LIST ^ Lex punish >.>
So yeah 7:3 Lex favor or 6:4 at best.

Well um... if this matchup was only about cervy attacking and leixia blocking... you'd be 100% right. But it's not...

- He has some of the best throws in the game. One BE throw or his standard B throw into iGDR/CE can even out most of the damage she'll get from AA/6KK punishes or pokes.
- His 1AB and 3A kill any kind of counter offense and because one's mid and one's low, he can pretty much do this after her SAFE stuff to make them feel unsafe.
- No Cervy would do BBB on block anyway... it's hit confirmable.
- He controls more space than she does except mid range. Even then, when he has meter 4B(BE) fixes that problem.
- aB (pirate's cross) is unpunishable at max range for her. It's also a good interrupt for her frame game.

The pros in the match are her block punishment as you said and her ability to control mid range when she gets there. But that's about it really. At best it'd probably be 4/6 for Lex, but not 5/5 or anywhere near her favor, imo.
 
Leixia vs Cervantes 7:3

Lol what? Are you really being serious?

A positive/negative advantage cannot only be judged by punishment, and even so, you have to mention how Cervantes can punish her as well. For example, he can punish her 3B with aB for 40dmg which is as much as she gets, if she hits. Furthermore, some of his stuff is pseudo-safe cause Leixia's 6KK won't punish it at midrange.
Seriously, if Leixia has a 7:3 against Cervantes because she can punish so much so "hard", then he has 9:1 against the Pyrrhas or Alpha.

You played great last weekend, I'm not gonna let you get away with that. =P
It is not even close to being even in my opinion, let alone advantageous for her.


And I love reading Sacharja's way of explaining things.

according to tago san leixia has the same range as mitsu.
Yeah, and he also thinks that Alpha's damage is just fine because 2143a:B is the hardest move in the game. Mitsu's and Leixia's zoning being even.... yeah...
 
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