Being able to attack is a comeback mechanic
ROs and wall combos are not comeback mechanics just because they do a lot of damage.When I said that guard burst is a comeback mechanic, I meant that you could be down in health, get a burst on the opponent and land a nice combo.
The same is true for wall combo's, RO's, JG-punishes, and the buildup of meter from getting your ass kicked.
So say you're down in health, you land a throw that results in a RO, so according you SLDE, just because you positioned yourself correctly and chose the correct grab, that makes it not a comeback mechanic? Having a comeback mechanic doesn't mean there's a brainless way to implement it. Same is true for wall combo's, it's all about position, and meter management.
Wall combo's in general are way overboard and in some cases you get half life or more for a single BE, depending on which character.
In that sense, all comeback mechanics require some good read or a solid decision. I'm not understanding why that negates it being such.
I don't understand what this means other than, hitting your opponent in all these ways count as comeback mechanics. Although I will say a few characters in this game have bonkers damage, but I do not think how that fits as a comeback mechanic is a really sound argument.Having multiple ways of dealing massive damage all count towards comeback mechanics.
Some combos do yes.It's simply too easy to turn the tide IMO. Combo's do too much damage, jg is too easy (for the reward), guard burst happens too often, wall position isn't that difficult to achieve.
Please expand.For JG it doesn't really make much sense that the easiest moves to JG are the most punishable
Big slow moves that damage guard tend to leave the JGer at a huge advantage but are the most easiest to JG. Therefore making the move worthless on your move list against a strong player. You're rewarded less for performing a harder JG on things poke and jab, even though your advantage is still good, providing what you JGed isn't a string. I don't think you should be getting launchers off of a JG either way.Please expand.
Because certain individuals cannot grasp what you're saying. They'd rather gripe about petty, non existential problems that only affect them than look at the game as a whole.ThatDarnNinja said:Again, I'm repeating myself because there really isn't much else to say.
Much of that boils down to how JG works, the nature of Slow/Fast moves and the actual game engine itself. JG just gives you the full block stun as punishment. The longer block stun also makes a move more unsafe on whiff. So AAs and BBs would make sense to be safer on whiff because they are short ranged and are more likely to miss the opponent.Big slow moves that damage guard tend to leave the JGer at a huge advantage but are the most easiest to JG. Therefore making the move worthless on your move list against a strong player. You're rewarded less for performing a harder JG on things poke and jab, even though your advantage is still good, providing what you JGed isn't a string. I don't think you should be getting launchers off of a JG either way.
Think my idea of JG was basically a normal GI from previous games lol.
Did you not read the OP? The second sentence explicitly states that debate is not only allowed, but encouraged. If you read that and came in here to soapbox regardless, then you can take your "better things to do with my time" and shove it where the rest of your opinions come from.Having multiple ways of dealing massive damage all count towards comeback mechanics.
It's simply too easy to turn the tide IMO. Combo's do too much damage, jg is too easy (for the reward), guard burst happens too often, wall position isn't that difficult to achieve.
Arguing over the internet isn't really my style. People always misquote you, take things out of context, or want you to elaborate on something because they're too stupid to read between the lines.
Free bar of meter is NOT a comeback mechanic? Really? I'm not even gonna waste my time trying to explain to people who just don't get it. I have better things to do with my time.
I said everything I wanted to say in my first post and I stand by it. Peace out
OS JG has to be accounted for. It's precisely for the reasons you stated that the most commonly JGed moves in high level play are the fast, safe pokes.Big slow moves that damage guard tend to leave the JGer at a huge advantage but are the most easiest to JG. Therefore making the move worthless on your move list against a strong player. You're rewarded less for performing a harder JG on things poke and jab, even though your advantage is still good, providing what you JGed isn't a string. I don't think you should be getting launchers off of a JG either way.
Think my idea of JG was basically a normal GI from previous games lol.
MASTER SIGNIA DROPPIN KNOWLEDGEIt seems that even after all this time all of this time some of you do not understand what JG does to the game. JG, especially the "safe-JG" or "JGG" where you tap G and then press and hold it so there's no opening, is a key part of the puzzle, and if you for whatever reason don't use it often, you are not playing the game right. Not using JG is like not moving often. It's not some footnote, it completely changes the game. The question is never whether you should JG, it's when.
Every time you are hit out of movement in the non-neutral game, it is from a move that could have safe-JG'd and punished hard. Movement catching attacks are usually very punishable on JG (-17), especially moves that would catch backstep, so almost any character can get something decent. That of course includes AA which can be ducked after the first hit and BB whose second hit can be GI'd. And you usually can't JG both because the safe-JG, which again is tapping G and then holding G, triggers a cooldown and so is only good for one JG, but anything else is dangerous, leaving you open to big launchers in the i19-i24 range. JGing 2As gives you +9 or something big while being up close -- that's a free mid/throw mixup that they can't move away from.
For this reason, safe-JG or other JG OSes are integral parts of the reverse mixup. Start JGing after everything and they will have to start delaying attacks or running up and throwing (you are spacing correctly, aren't you?). So ask yourself, what if I start moving again once they're trained to delay their attacks? Oh hey, it worked, it's a fucking miracle!
JG opens up the unsafe movement that some people complain about. When JGs are a threat and players space decently well and know how to move, suddenly people move a lot and don't attack at advantage, encouraging playing the neutral game the same way that safe movement would have. The only difference is you can't do minor adjustments and guard afterward (you can make adjustments -- as long as its to space your attacks correctly) and players have to guess between attacks at disadvantage, movement, or just guard OSes. It also encourages and adds to the close-neutral game, where neither player is at advantage up close, and players fight for the initiative, predicting when attacks will start and go for close counter hits, or will wait to see where someone is guarding and act accordingly. These timing mixups can be ran seemlessly with a JG input as a part of an option select. Many players do employ these strategies, and in my opinion it's a lot more active and exciting than the previous games!
Using JG in the neutral game is a bit less common, but again, it's important to use it, primarily as a replacement for just-in-time guarding. By that I mean moving and guarding on reaction to an attack that's coming. But any time you start guarding, you can JGG, and it's perfectly safe! So, you can land seemingly random JGs for moves that are intended to catch your slick single-tap movement. However, if you are using quick single tap movement, you can't guard unless you're dashing forward, so you must choose between 8WR, which you can guard out of no problem as long as you didn't start it 20 or so frames ago. Once again, unsafe movement startup and JG adds interesting choices and possible strategies.
You should also now see that JG is an amazing defensive option, which should silence any complaints about the game being too offensive.
JG adds so much depth to the game and resolves many complaints. And I could go on about what you can do with it and what dynamic it creates, this post only covers the most important parts of it, things that most of you didn't mention. Best of all, the Just Guard mechanic takes skill to master, rewarding consistent execution, game knowledge, and ability to read the opponent, in a game that is otherwise very easy to play. I would be really upset if JG is not in SC6.
Why you so merciless? Now its unlikely he'll return and attempt to defend his points.D
And no, people do not "always misquote you" and "take things out of context". This is your own failure to articulate and defend your view. As for "[wanting] you to elaborate on something because they're too stupid to read between the lines": fuck that. It's your argument, not mine, and I am not in any way obligated to make it for you.
No one is entitled to having his opinion taken at face value. If you have neither the intention to defend nor concede some point in a thread like this, then don't even bother wasting other people's times with it.