Nationals: What Went Right/Wrong

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SC community,

I doubt many new players know who I am but old time players should be able to vouch for me and my legitimacy in the fighting game community in general. I don’t post very often any more on any site, as the responsibilities of my life keep me as a player and organizer in the back ground.
It’s impossible to properly relate all the emotions I have had while keeping up with the SC national tournament. Not only with recent developments but over the past year as it unfolded. As I watched the internal e-mails go back and forth on the progress of SC nationals, as an observer you see the struggles that different people bring to the process. I am a huge fan of SC, I am a passionate player of the game, I am passionate as a community organizer, and a passionate member of the NVGA.
So let me put my emotions aside and look at the facts, great tournament, (As I was their first hand) but like any event we all know of it can be improved. So with the suggestions here on the SC community, and we will be taking additional input from our chapters, here are new guidelines ALL NVGA events will be required to post and adhere to in any event. (posted below)
As we will be doing another nationals for another game. As I myself will be donating $1000 of my personal money to have another nationals. I know there are plenty of players who will come down and compete for the cash. And the ones who do not want to come compete for the money, “They just don’t know!” (A little something for you SF4 fans out there if you know the reference)
These guidelines are currently a work in progress, much like the NVGA, and please notice much like the SC community.

I invite you to come leave this tarnished talk. And to move forward with me, move forward as a SC community, and to move forward with the NVGA.

Sincerely,

Jason D.C. Montoya A.K.A. Chingachgook


Please feel free to provide input or feedback on the Guidelines we are working on below. If you want no part of this that is fine also, just consider it a FYI.


NVGA Single game event standard requirements

Copper Standard

• Open bracket creation (Double elimination, single Elimination, or Round Robin)
o To make sure the bracket is randomly selected or semi-seeded without any prejudice it is required you do the bracket creation in front of everyone so they can ensure it was done in a fair and impartial process

• A minimum of 10% of the prize money is held in a local-fund that pays for player sponsorship or community events (Bar-B-Qs, Travel, ect)

• Game rules must be the NVGA game rules set list found at (http://nvgaonline.com/Forums/index.php?showforum=236)

• Online mandatory postings: Game payouts are listed online. Top placement results must be posted online. And you must post what tournament standard this event will meet. (Such as this is a NVGA Copper standard tournament, or this is a NVGA Gold Standard)

• If flyers are made for the event it must list the appropriate NVGA standard the tournament will meet. (Such as NVGA Copper Standard, or Gold Standard, ect.)

Bronze Standard

• Includes all requirements items in Bronze level

• Video taken to later be uploaded online (Semi-finals and finals only)

Silver Standard

• Includes all requirements in Bronze and Silver
• Guaranteed Minimum pot prize

Gold Standard

• Includes all requirements in Copper, Bronze and Silver
• Online registration available (For NVGA chapters this is provided with the NVGA custom online registration software)

• Calculates typical time each game takes and post expected game time (For NVGA Chapters this Is done automatically with the NVGA Custom tournament software)

• Calculates a local and nationally ranking (For NVGA chapters this is provided automatically with the NVGA custom ranking tournament software)

• Live web cast


NVGA multiple game event requirements

Copper Standard
• Open bracket creation (Double elimination, single Elimination, or Round Robin)
o To make sure the bracket is randomly selected or semi-seeded without any prejudice it is required you do the bracket creation in front of everyone so they can ensure it was done in a fair and impartial process

• A minimum of 10% of all prize money is held in a local-fund that pays for player sponsorship or community events (Bar-B-Qs, Travel, ect)

• Game rules must be the NVGA game rules set list found at (http://nvgaonline.com/Forums/index.php?showforum=236)

• Online mandatory postings: Game payouts are listed online. Top placement results must be posted online. And you must post if what tournament standard this event will meet. (Such as this is a NVGA Copper standard tournament, or this is a NVGA Gold Standard)

• If flyers are made for the event it must list the appropriate NVGA standard the tournament will meet. (Such as NVGA Copper Standard, or Gold Standard, ect.)

Bronze Standard
• Includes all requirements items in Bronze level
• Video taken to later be uploaded online (Semi-finals and finals only)


Silver Standard
• Includes all requirements in Bronze and Silver
• Guaranteed Minimum pot prize


Gold Standard
• Includes all requirements in Copper, Bronze and Silver
• Has a single person running each game bracket
• Has a minimum of one TV and console for each 8-14 players for fighting games. And a minimum of one TV set for each single person in a 4V4 First Person Shooter.

• Online registration available (For NVGA chapters this is provided with the NVGA custom online registration software)

• Calculates typical time each game takes and post expected game time (For NVGA Chapters this Is done automatically with the NVGA Custom tournament software)

• Calculates a local and nationally ranking (For NVGA chapters this is provided automatically with the NVGA custom ranking tournament software)

• Live web cast


NVGA conference game event requirements (Major)

Copper Standard
• Open bracket creation (Double elimination, single Elimination, or Round Robin)
o To make sure the bracket is randomly selected or semi-seeded without any prejudice it is required you do the bracket creation in front of everyone so they can ensure it was done in a fair and impartial process
• A minimum of 10% of all prize money is held for the host chapter in a local-fund that pays for player sponsorship or community events (Bar-B-Qs, Travel, ect)
• Game rules must be the NVGA game rules set list found at (http://nvgaonline.com/Forums/index.php?showforum=236)
• Online mandatory postings: Game payouts are listed online. Top placement results must be posted online. And you must post if what tournament standard this event will meet. (Such as this is a NVGA Copper standard tournament, or this is a NVGA Gold Standard)
• If flyers are made for the event it must list the appropriate NVGA standard the tournament will meet. (Such as NVGA Copper Standard, or Gold Standard, ect.)

Bronze Standard
• Includes all requirements items in Bronze level
• Video taken to later be uploaded online (Semi-finals and finals only)


Silver Standard
• Includes all requirements in Bronze and Silver
• Guaranteed minimum pot prize

Gold Standard
• Includes all requirements in Copper, Bronze and Silver
• Has a single person running each game bracket
• Has a minimum of one TV and console for each 8-14 players for fighting games. And a minimum of one TV set for each single person in a 4V4 First Person Shooter.
• Has printed rules at the registration table for everyone to view
• Has printed “Game board” posted for all to see events and start. Any delay in any event must be posted immediately on the Game board.
• Online registration available (For NVGA chapters this is provided with the NVGA custom online registration software)
• Calculates typical time each game takes and post expected game time (For NVGA Chapters this Is done automatically with the NVGA Custom tournament software)
• Calculates a local and nationally ranking (For NVGA chapters this is provided automatically with the NVGA custom rankingtournament software)
• Live web cast

Gold Plus Regional Standard

• Must determine if event is open or invite only from regional’s (NVGA recommends open events)
• NVGA guarantees regional money from NVGA official chapters only
• If airline tickets are purchased must have commitment from qualified players 2 months in advance
• NVGA Recommends hotel location if possible so players can purchase rooms where the event is located

Again a work in progress but we are glad we are becomming a better orginization as time moves along.
 
Chingacook: If Nats is run in NM, even if it's NVGA, most of the old school players can vouche for you/Seneca that you run solid tourneys and there isn't any smoke and mirrors w/how you guys run things. Colorado put a bad taste in everybody's mouth, and we all learned that DFG is not capable of handling a tournament like Nationals. Learn and move on. I heard a Nats is going to be in New Jersey or doesn't matter where it is, if it's done right, people will come.

P.S. We all love the game like you do, but donating 1k is pretty extreme. If it's done right, you shouldn't have to reach into your own pocket.
 
As far as I've seen the NVGA is just a name anyway. The people running the tournaments are the same people that have always run tournaments in their respective communities, running them the same way. What is the NVGA but empty words, anyway? Greg runs tournaments here the same way he has for years, inefficiently and suspiciously.

I'm sure Jason still runs tournaments cleanly and effectively, and the same for all the respective community leaders and groups that are pat of the "NVGA". Really ought to just drop the whole idea and work on furthering the community through local efforts rather than try to overly complicate everything with a needless "national organization" that does nothing but waste peoples time.
 
The_Dragon said:
As far as I've seen the NVGA is just a name anyway. The people running the tournaments are the same people that have always run tournaments in their respective communities, running them the same way. What is the NVGA but empty words, anyway? Greg runs tournaments here the same way he has for years, inefficiently and suspiciously.

I'm sure Jason still runs tournaments cleanly and effectively, and the same for all the respective community leaders and groups that are pat of the "NVGA". Really ought to just drop the whole idea and work on furthering the community through local efforts rather than try to overly complicate everything with a needless "national organization" that does nothing but waste peoples time.
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I'm pretty sure IceColdEdge is NVGA from Dallas, TX and there are other NVGA participants also who actually have a good idea of what they are doing. DFG made NVGA look REALLY bad, but it shouldn't reflect the entire organization.
 
I question why the organization exists, though. What's the practical reasoning behind it? What's the point? All the tournaments are the exact same as they've always been, they just have the NVGA name stamped on them. As you just said, all that really does is make other people who actually had no direct say or control over a given tournament receive a negative impression if a tournament is poorly run.
 
Nori said:
P.S. We all love the game like you do, but donating 1k is pretty extreme. If it's done right, you shouldn't have to reach into your own pocket.
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Thanks Nori. FYI My offer it to only Guarantee the $1000! :) Hopefully the event will make the $1000 and I won't have to pay out of pocket. But we have had past events not cover the pot and oh well we pay it out as we will guarantee it, we stand by it, we make a commitment and we do it.

The_Dragon said:
I question why the organization exists, though. What's the practical reasoning behind it? What's the point? All the tournaments are the exact same as they've always been, they just have the NVGA name stamped on them.
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Is this Ben? Ben you speak like the true noob organizer your would be if you ran events. You have no clue! Like allot of these post have no clue what it takes to organize a national event. But your here adding your $.02. (Let me count to ten and cool down so I don't unreasonably respond to you…)
Ben you know I like you as a person, but post similar to yours remind me why I stay off forums. Not that it's a bad question your asking, quite the contrary. To communicate appropriately in a forum environment takes too much time. Forums are good, but it can be a limited way of communicating.
Most people just do a basic "Tweet" on forums, just like you saying "Why does the NVGA organization exist?" Just the nature of the question is in a negative context and requires a response. If I responded to all these noob post I would have no time for a life. But as I mentioned your question is actually valid and good.

Why the existence of an organization like the NVGA? One of many reasons is when a local tournament organizer be it Dallas, New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, St. Louis whom ever, if your a decent organizer your tournament eventually gets to a national quality level.
But even after you reach a national audience it is hard to get sponsors on a national level to notice your event. Why? Well sure your event pulls in 500 people, 1000 people, 2000 people... But to a national company those numbers still are weak. Why? How many gamers do you think any national company can hit on a single e-mail in their database? How much would it cost Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft to send out an e-mail, or message over xbox live, or PSN? And they can track and calculate a better return on their investment from a basic e-mail.
Sure local organizers pull in some local sponsorship, sometimes even regional sponsorship. But national companies may easily spend up to 20-50K in one month on advertising alone in a single game magazine! Why? The game magazine has the numbers to justify the cost. The game magazine has over 250k subscribers who read and receive the mag.
Even with large national sites like 8Wr, Zaibatsu, SRK, it's still chump change to the numbers of traditional advertising. So the NVGA as an organization hopes to pull our numbers together so we can offer national companies a reason to sponsor events we make for the players. We want to have a 10K guaranteed pot for any fighting game, FPS ect. But that takes serious backing from sponsors. And the NVGA is a step towards that goal. A slow step mind you but at least we are working on it! We know as an organization this will take YEARS to complete. But again we are working on it, and moving forward.
Another reason for an organization like the NVGA is online registration software, tournament software, and ranking software is not cheep to get. Or it's a time intensive process to program yourself. Plus we don't want leaders having to focus their valuable time on the creating the tools to run events. We want to help give leaders the tools so they can spend time growing-their-local-communities. Not spend time web designing necessarily, or programming. But spend time marketing, talking to a sponsor, organizing events and not spend time creating the tools for the event.

We are at the cusp of our software being completed. Another 3-4 weeks to beta testing, then their will be a uniform way we all can use online registering for our events, customized video game tournament software, local and national rankings. Making our leaders job easier, more efficient, and in the near future a way for any player visiting a NVGA event to have the same expectations that it will meet a minimum tournament quality standard.
And their are other reasons too, but I hope that gets the general point across to you.

Well I leave it at that. As I know that writing as much as I did is too much for most people to read on a forum! Another reason forums are a limited way to communicate. (Better then nothing for sure!)
 
Thank you from the NVGA

Jaxel said:
For events like this, it'd probably be a good idea to scrap the noise like the NVGA. Sorry DFG, but this post of yours (more like a political press release) is utter bullshit. "a step back to take two steps forward"? Yeah right, more like 5 steps back, and one step forward. Even ChaCha is worried that this was our last chance to do nationals "right", and you and the NVGA have ruined it. This post of yours addresses none of the serious issues and overlooks the true problems that we are having with nationals.

Negatives:

YOU have been completely unprofessional this entire time while planning Nationals. You kept changing things as the year went by; without discussion from myself, ChaCha or the Nationals Commitee. Everything became overly beaurocrasized. We could be having a great convo over email, and you will show up and say "this is a great, lets put this conversation on hold and have a conference call on Thursday!" WHY!? Things were going just fine without the conference call, and all you seemed to do was bog things down. By the end, the nationals committee had ZERO decisions on anything, because people didn't want to participate your bullshit conference calls. Then as the months go by, you change rules little by little, so no one knew what was going on. Rules? Pot Distribution? ChaCha asked you not to make Nationals part of the Supercon; but you insisted because you wanted to make money.

Gaps in plane ticket costs? WHY? BECAUSE YOU KEPT CHANGING THE RULES. At the start of regional planning, you told us that every regional must charge $20 for the nationals pot; which covers costs of plane tickets without any issues. The lowest attendance regional would still have covered $200; my regional covered $940 alone. You also said that no regionals could be run at someone's house; because of this I had to secure a venue and charge my participants a high priced venue fee. Then after my regional YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND; you said regionals could charge only $10 (so now plane tickets weren't getting covered anymore?) and you said people could run them at their house. You fucked me over, as well as anyone who attended my regional.

What was the point of regionals again? You insisted on having Nationals at Supercon, which stretched the regional dates from 2 months to 6 months. Regionals should not be across a 6 month span! They should be in 2 months, in a gridiron style of two regionals a weekend till its all over. Nationals should not be in the same month as EVO; but we had to play second fiddle to NVGA and you ignored our objections. But what was the point of regionals if you were just going to open the nationals tournament to anybody? The community voted to allow you to run a last chance QUALIFIER; the community voted to allow international players into this QUALIFIER. Nowhere did ANYONE say it would be a good idea to open nationals to everybody; in fact, when people heard this is what you were going to do, they firmly objected to it. But you ignored them, because you wanted to make more money. You didn't just fuck over people who attended my regional, but people who attended ANY regional.

The pot situation? What was the pot? $2000? Thats it? You guaranteed to ChaCha that the corporate sponsorship you had been recieving for the event would total at least $4000 distributed amongst all the tournaments. Did SC4 get ANY of that; or were you full of shit? I understand that plane tickets cost money, but it doesn't cost THAT much. If prices of tickets were high, its because YOU were unprofessional and waited so long before buying them. And by that account, not everyone who earned free plane tickets went to nationals! What about people like Junior who turned down his plane ticket? What happened to that money? You mean the nationals could have been even LESS? We have been asking you for MONTHS for a firm list on the appropriation of funds, but you refused to give it to us.

You told me sometime last month that the pot was going to be $2000, and still, refused to give me any explaination to how that number made sense when I asked. But what about the fact that you let everybody enter Nats by simply paying $20. What happened to that $20? How come that money wasn't added to the pot? That should be an extra $500 on top of the bullshit $2000. But reading the Extra Fresh League forums, it appears that this isn't the first time you've ripped people off; you've been doing it for years. From what I am hearing, there was a $250 bonus for HDR, which you REFUSED to pay out; and then you added to the Supercon website AFTER THE FACT: "bonus pot is dependent on the amount of entries".

At some point, this was no longer SC4 Nationals, but instead some random NVGA tourney that you CONNED people into travelling for and attending. The only critizism you did take was from people complaining that nats shouldn't be on a FRIDAY (what situation would EVER make you think this was a good idea?) and that nats shouldn't be winner take all (exactly why did you decide THIS was a good idea?)! And with the winner take all, no one even knew if you changed it back to proper pot distrobution or not, until the tournament itself! People who did earn free plane tickets got screwed. You waited till the last minute to buy plane tickets, so they weren't given proper options for flight times. Don't tell us there was nothing you could do about it, it was YOUR fault.

I don't care about the other complaints I have been hearing: "DJ was too loud", "Food was hard to find", "Taxis were expensive", "Hotels were too far"; those are trivial matters and don't really affect the community. Those issues are growing pains and will probably be fixed at the next event you run. But the unprofessionalism and the misappropriation of funds; it appears you have been having THOSE problems for YEARS. Next year, if we run nationals, we will NOT be assosciating with NVGA in any way. EVO was a HUGE step forward for the Soulcalibur community, and you have single handedly set us back.

When I set up 8WR, it was for the effort of having FULL TRANSPARENCY from the leaders of the community. I have even commented many months ago about the way Nationals was getting run, in that if you weren't a member of this "elite" nationals commitee, you had no say in the way Nationals was getting handled. Unfortunately, it was even worse than that; even if you were a member of the nationals commitee, unless you were a member of NVGA, you didn't matter. Even in the post you just made, it pretty much says, "If you want a say in the matter, create a local NVGA chapter, and then and ONLY THEN will we listen to you".

Positives:

People in the community are very respectful, and its nice that besides the glaring issues, players had a good time playing others during casuals, money matches, and even during the tournaments themselves. There was definately good competition built around a large list of players you conned into attending, and for this reason, I won't be discounting the results to the NVGA competitions from the ladder; as long as you ever sends me the results. I've been asking you for the results from the Houston and ATL regionals for MONTHS; but you haven't sent them yet.
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As one the founders of NVGA please allow me to respond briefly (and perhaps in more detail later).

I'm sorry to see there are so many negatives on this list vs. positives. Although I can think of more positives that could be listed the fact is it's your list and it represents how you see the results. If you as an important part of the National's organization feel we failed then certainly on some level, we did.

Please accept my personal apology for your experience and anyone else who feels similar. I will not bother to offer excuses or even reasons for the issues you list in this post. The simple fact is that WE have to do a better job in the future on the issues you raise in your posts as well the issues I've seen in a few other posts.

We may not be able to make up for what's in the past now however please feel free to PM me if you have any other suggestions for myself, DFWG and other NVGA leaders to consider. Not everything is most effectively dealt with in the public arena. Whether we ever work together in the future or not, we still want to make a good faith effort to rectify anything we can.

What I will promise is that we will review each of the complaints made in your post and address them directly to improve for the future. I will not engage in an extended public debate about the resolutions but for anyone interested I will respond to PMs.

The NVGA will not be going away, we're committed to our common goals so if we have to take somewhat of a blackeye on organization issues with this SuperCon please be sure that we are not ignoring them. We will use your critiques to improve future services.

As someone who has been involved in many gaming events at all levels and sizes for many years I know it is not easy or trivial, esp. for something of this magnitude "Nationals". Hats off to EVO and other organizations that have done it now for years, improved it and now run it so well. The list of those that failed to do it and quit is much longer. As a community of gamers let's not add to the list failures.

I do know that DFG and Colorado chapter worked VERY hard to pull off this event and make it enjoyable, esp. for the SoulCal player community. Without being involved personally at great detail in the planning (that may be a mistake for me) I must say that I thought it came off with a lot of fun and enjoyment. Admittedly I am biased but I also have worked with LOT of events to compare, from National TV to small home events, and in many ways CCC did a hella nice job. From the perspective of more an attendee of the SuperCon who also sponsored guests to the event I can say we truly enjoyed it.

The SoulCal Finals alone made it worth the expense and effort for me.

So in summary, for now please allow us a little time to review the issues raised. We will do it with the NVGA leadership, founders and chapter leaders. We will address each issue. You may or may not like our methods of avoiding them in the future but they will be addressed either way.

Thanks for your support on the NVGA Denver SuperCon. (and no, it's not a "political thanks", it's real. :-) )
 
I don't think anybody even QUESTIONED NVGA until Nationals. But I think the Colorado chapter (not sure if it was JUST DFG or multiple people) forgot basic things that made it so difficult. For example:

-Supposedly, DFG plans to AGAIN use the SAME venue that is 40 minutes away from the airport. Did he not learn? Whatever you do have, you have to consider your local players picking up players from the airport. Poor Egg and others had to do a massive amount of driving because it had to get done and nobody else stepped up. To me, the idea was to always have as many local gamers comfortable as possible. Hell when people come to my out of town tourneys in San Antonio (I usually do this for the Dallas guys), I put my name under a hotel room and use my family discount for Marriott. Sunday night at Nats, I let almost every player in my own room, plus had alcohol for everybody. This isn't directed you at, cause in NM, I've never had this problem

-DFG pissed away either NVGA money, Nats money, or even worse, his OWN money spending something stupid like 2k on LIGHTS?! I don't even want to know what the DJ cost. Those were unnecessary expenses. Saturday was ok for food. Sunday, we were all fucked.

-If it's going to be so far from the airport, this could AT LEAST been at a hotel. Oofmatic and Suirad both looked like the walking dead on Sunday and don't know about Suirad, but poor Oof had to ask somebody to sleep in his car. He should have been able to go up to his room to take a nap.


Again, there were GOOD things that happened at Nats, but some of the bad things just completely overwhelmed everybody. These are 3 BASIC points that should be looked at not by NVGA, cause I think they already have this common sense, but NVGA Colorado. Maybe DFG isn't cut out for events like this? Many people in CO seem to have expected DFG to fuck up in some shady way.
 
Thank you from the NVGA

And here I was cursing the damn swine flu that I couldn't go to either EVO or Nats when I even have a free travel.

Sad to see that the event seemed problematic but the biggest dissapoinment was the Regional deal. I would have gone to Denver directly if that was the case.

IMO, that's a no no. Nats are only for the qualified, otherwise bad feelings ensue, like I wasted money and time for going to this place, etc, etc.
 
Again like I said, there is a hotel where events were held before about 15 or so minutes from the airport. Close to eating spots and Northfield (Nice shopping area, more restaraunts) sooooo yea. Tivoli would work for National events if...Stapleton was still running (15 minutes or so away). Alas Stapleton closed down 14-15 years ago.
 
Thank you from the NVGA

The tourneys were good and very competitive and I learned a lot playing/chatting with the best the in the world.

The only reason people were getting let in was because qualifiers didn't show up (not to mention the 2 votes in favor of).

If you didn't go you missed out, period. It wasn't perfect but there have been tourneys that have been far worse.

Pulling off something of this magnitude is no small feat so I give props to DFG for what he was able to do.

- I.C.E.
 
The tourneys were good and very competitive and I learned a lot playing/chatting with the best the in the world.

If you didn't go you missed out, period. It wasn't perfect but there have been tourneys that have been far worse. The comments here would have people who didn't attend (who for some reason also turn out to be the biggest keyboard commandos) thinking that this event was NOT fun and not competitive... totally not the case

Pulling off something of this magnitude is no small feat so I give props to DFG for what he was able to do, even given its shortcomings

Overall thoughts:
- The tournament competition was of the highest quality

- The idea of "letting people in" to the tournament wouldn't have even been an issue if the original qualifiers showed up. Further, it's not like these were random bums off the street... As a matter of fact, the fact that the intl players were allowed in made the tournament better both for entertainment value and to see who really is best...

- The idea of "not being able to hear the game" is common in big tournaments... I couldn't hear my TV @ evo either it's amazing to me that this is just now coming up... I feel like as a player my job is to play... and it's never gonna be like it is in my living room..

- The idea of "SC not being the main event" @ the Supercon is patently false... SC got the lions share of resources (the biggest room, the projector, the live stream)... Funny how this wasn't a complaint @ Evo where SC really wasn't the main event... Perception, Perception, Perception...

- We were not "fucked" for food on any day... There was food walking distance from the venue...

- Nats paid out plane tickets (even one like a day before) AND a $2k pot (i.e. more than Evo)... Considering some regionals did not cover the required amount I think that's pretty damn good..

- I agree that clear communication from DFG/Tournament management was lacking in some areas (to both the community and tournament organizers at times)... This misinformation I think it was lead to a lot of the misunderstandings that people are talking about

- No thought was given to how everyone would get around... considering that everyone had no way to get anywhere and everything was so spread out... This made hitting the town post-tourney basically impossible

In the end... We all want the same thing... to advance the community, have quality events, and have a good time... To take on this endeavor for nats I think is commendable... The shit is hard to do plain and simple... Hopefully whoever does it next time takes from these lessons and improves them... But DFG does NOT deserve to be crucified on here for doing what he could...

- I.C.E.

P.S. I will also take this oppotunity to speak to DFG's character... I've known him for years and i know for a fact that he did not do this to "get over" on the SC community or to line his own pockets... The notion doesn't even make sense to me considering the fact that any man with a brain would not try to take money from a) a community he loves b) a community that really isn't rich to begin with and c) a community is highly opinionated and is quick to call out something they see as negative (i.e. it would not further his larger goals by getting a negative reputation in a community he is trying to service)
 
I understand you want to stick up for your boy, ICE, but I think it's a colossal mistake on the part of NVGA representatives to refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of any criticism leveled against the event. I mean, honestly, this was the worst tournament I have attended, and that's including that one MLG Dallas that was sponsored by the Nokia N-Gage. =P

The idea that negating the meaningfulness of regional qualifiers, running everything behind schedule, and forcing us to share space with DJs, advertisements, vendors, and the like while trying to hold a major competition is, to my mind, pretty shameful. Don't get me wrong--the event showed a lot of promise. That promise, however, was largely unrealized. Unless there is a willingness on the part of the organizers to at least entertain the idea that it was somehow less than stellar, though, we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes. We need to get away from what bona-fides people have, how long they've been running events in a particular fashion (just because I've thought 2+2=5 for years doesn't make it any less wrong), how many conference calls they can stomach, etcetera, and work on improving the way we run things in order to ensure we have events that are worthy of the players and their dedication to the community.
 
Thank you from the NVGA

Egg, remember our talk. And please, PLEASE get some sleep now. Please. lol


Hug from France for you ! haha
 
I wasn't at Nationals, as I couldn't afford to go... so none of the complaints I made were about the actual EVENT itself; I can't say anything about the frustrations of sharing space with DJs, advertisements, vendors and the like. All of my complaints stem from the actual PLANNING of the event, the handling of regionals and the general unprofessionalism I have witnessed over the past year. To me, it doesn't matter what NVGA does about getting Supercon to be better for next year, as my issues are unrelated to that... and from what I have been hearing from the CO community, haven't changed in years.

http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=132796&postcount=4
 
Hates said:
I think it's a colossal mistake on the part of NVGA representatives to refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of any criticism leveled against the event.
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A little extreme no? I agree with some of the complaints that were communicated here. Let's site some examples:
- I agree that running behind schedule is bad
- I agree that the event had high aspirations that were not realized
- I agree that it was "less than stellar"
- I agree that it was inconvenient (at best!) to get around

However:
- I do not agree that we had to "share space" w/ the dj/sponsors/etc. I don't remember turn-tables being in front of any screen that I had to play on... Nor do I remember anybody placing banner ads in front of my face between rounds... I think the DJ/banners/vendors etc. were in a layout similar to evo actually (albeit on a smaller scale)

- I don't think that the regional qualifiers were made meaningless personally... at least not just by letting the intl players in... If you want to place blame for that then it has to be both on the organizers and on the community for not showing up. Further, again I think in light of that the tournament was made better both for competition's sake and for entertainment value by letting them in... That's just from my own standpoint as a competitor and fan of competition... But overall I think that the real complaint comes from the inconsistency... I do think that it would have been a better stance from DFG's point of view to just stick to the rules...

My overall point is... Things obviously could have been improved in certain areas... But it was not the worst event ever... not even close. I actually had a really good time... and learned tons playing w/ u guys in the process.

- I.C.E.
 
The DJ thing was extremely distracting those of us with eye conditions that make us partially blind. Listening to a match is extremely important... so don't discount that just because it may not have affected you.
 
I agree that it's harder for those people... All I'm saying is that is an accessibility issue with big tournaments in general... Not just this one... Furthermore... I don't think in the months leading up to the event this is something that came up...

So on one hand you have a player who has this issue, who doesn't necessarily expect it to be loud (because there are rarely djs at tournaments)... and on the other hand you have an organizer who doesn't expect a player to necessarily be affected by it being loud... why? because it's ALWAYS loud at tournaments... If it's not a DJ... then it's the announcer (oh God help this man if he ever makes it to a major tournament final)... If it's not the announcer then it's the crowd... I think this issue with people with disabilities definitely brings up a deeper issue... I'm actually all for working around it... I just think that it takes special care and planning (from the organizers, and the community) and that's very hard to do.
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Jaxel: Definitely I agree that planning could have been better as well... I think we asked a lot... not just of DFG... But of ourselves to coordinate a national event across 15 different cities and 6-8 months on a volunteer basis...

That also was a factor of
1) Too many regionals
2) Too much time between game release, regionals, and nats

I know that by the time my regional came around I was just like "Let me run this freaking tournament and get it over with"

Again... lessons learned...

- I.C.E.
 
Yes there is the crowd and such, but adding on techno into the mix makes 0 sense. There's no defending that.
 
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