Patroklos Combo Discussion!

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
What's a "killshot" to you? I'm confused.
The normal combos I use generally have good okizeme. That means that they do X amount of damage, but I get extra potential damage if I guess right, making landing just one combo a threat.

However, if the opponent is low on life, screw the okizeme, kill them! i.e. use a combo that may have better damage but poorer okizeme (or lacks in other factors).

It's important to kill people in this game. That sounds absurd at first glance, but you know all of those times guys come back with a sliver of health to beat you?
 

Violent Vodka

Pick Your Poison
Ahhh, I see, I see. That's actually a really good idea.. I always just went for the heavy hitting stuff no matter what.. I should start studying a little more on wakeup mixups.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
Dunno how useful this would be, or if anyone's made note of it before.

wrA+B, BB. 52 DMG, you're at +4, opponent is crouching.

If you hit wrA+B point blank and they hold guard after BB, you get a right side throw attempt (60 DMG).

if this right side throw gets a wallsplat, you can combo into CE for 141 DMG.

So, the sequence is, wrA+B point-blank on axis, BB, right side throw, wallsplat, CE. 194 DMG total.

Probably just combo video/skill project stuff though, it's unlikely that it'll pan out like that... BB likes to whiff if you're too close to the wall and your hitboxes get pushed around. But I wanted to post it up anyway.
 

Paranormal_Oreo

[12] Conqueror
There are some things you missed.
Right side throw(far w!). 8A+B(w!). combo ender.
Back throw(w!). CE.
66B. 66B+K. 1B BE(delay) 3B_CE.
CH 6B, B, B. 66B+K. 1B BE(delay). 3B_CE.
B+K. 3B.
Slide([6] K). 3B_JS K(I think JS K works).
22_88A(far w!). 66A(w!). 1B. 1B BE. CE.
22_88A(far w!). 3B(high w!). 6B, B, B. combo ender.(VERY impractical due to 6B, B, B whiffing 2nd hit a lot. Use 66B for more consistent results).
And I've found that JS B BE is possible after a 66B. 66B+K. 1B BE(delay) on certain angles and maybe always(didn't test) on big characters.
 

rurounikenshin

[10] Knight
i just discovered something interesting, i dont know if any of you know this, but if you do 8B+K after 6BBB it leaves the opponent on a ground stun, allowing you to 236k for tons of damage, and although its escapable, most of the time people dont ukemi because the 66B+K combo is guaranteed, well that at least from my experience.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
Seems like a waste, but found this in training:

66B, 236B BE, 236K.

Any thoughts?
Y'all are missing a 66B+K somewhere in there, aren't you?

I use 236B BE to push the opponent towards the ring edge or wall, since the stakes are higher there and it's easier to win. Considering that 66B, 66B+K, CE is 96 damage, and 66B, 66B+K, 236B BE, 236K is 91 damage, you save half a bar for 5 points of damage. Sounds good to me. Sure, you spend half a bar for only 14 damage compared to 66B, 66B+K, 236K, but if they're at the wall, you're gonna make up for that, and you just hit 236K, so you at least got 1/4th bar back.
 

ARod716

[08] Mercenary
Y'all are missing a 66B+K somewhere in there, aren't you?

I use 236B BE to push the opponent towards the ring edge or wall, since the stakes are higher there and it's easier to win. Considering that 66B, 66B+K, CE is 96 damage, and 66B, 66B+K, 236B BE, 236K is 91 damage, you save half a bar for 5 points of damage. Sounds good to me. Sure, you spend half a bar for only 14 damage compared to 66B, 66B+K, 236K, but if they're at the wall, you're gonna make up for that, and you just hit 236K, so you at least got 1/4th bar back.

I didn't forget it. The second hit on 236B BE has an interesting push effect.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
Eh, 70 damage? Spent half a bar and you don't get the killer oki from the standard combo?
Sounds like a waste to me...

The 66A BE tech trap sounds interesting though. But you'd have to get them to tech... Not everybody does.

Wonder what you could use to make them want to tech...


8B+K won't work... They can roll out of the way. If they hold G you'll be off-axis and whiff.

236K... you don't want to wait until they can block it to use it... I guess you could mixup between 236K and 2A+B, but why? Odds off the standard combo are much better.

I don't know how you would make them want to tech. 132 damage for one bar sounds nice, but it seems gimmicky.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
I was thinking today about okizeme.

I was looking at 8A+B, AA, and the okizeme is not all that bad, you recover quite fast and the opponent can air control away but you can just run and stay close to them. I still don't like 8A+B (can anyone here tell me why you should use it at all?), but the advantage reminded me of something else...

When I use 1B, instead of going for 66A+B, I go for 3B instead. It leaves the opponent closer to me, and if they don't tech (really even if they do) I get to run up and use 1B again if I want. I've put people in a "loop" before because the okizeme situation is so advantageous for me. If I need more damage off 1B, I never go for 66A+B, I use my meter instead (1B BE).

So I thought then... Why not use 3B for everything else? It seemed too obvious, but why not?

When you land 236K normally, in most cases it kills your okizeme- you knock the opponent away, and it's almost like a reset. If you run up on them, it's your risk. And given that Pat has a hard time getting in if people don't let him in, you... want to stay in as much as you can. Right?

236K builds half a bar in 4 reps.
3B builds half a bar in 5.

3B, 236B - 56-65 DMG. No oki, small meter gain.
3B, 236K - 53 DMG. No oki if the opponent techs backwards or backrolls (you are recovering from 236K). Good meter gain.
3B, 3B - 49 DMG. Air control to escape oki is almost impossible. Only a slight hit in meter gain.

If you tack on potential damage from okizeme, 49 goes anywhere from 69-104 DMG, not counting any 66B+G traps.

Any thoughts?
 

Slade

[14] Master
I think switching between meter gain/oki is important depending on the circumstances of the match and the opponent's playstyle. Against turtles, it's best to go for the oki because getting the meter gain doesn't do anything if you have no opportunities to use it. Against aggressive players, they're going to give you plenty of opportunities for CH 44A or B+K or other CE setups, as well as GI opportunities and 236B BE interrupt/punish opportunities.

Stage should also be taken into account. Building the CE ringout threat early on is very important on small RO stages, and it's also easier to maintain offense on them because it's easier to get forced into a corner. On infinite stages, oki is better.

So when I want meter, my 66B combo is 66B → 66B+K → 236K. For oki, it's 66B → 66B+K → 44B, after which 1K/1B and 3B are your wakeup mixup.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
I always try to break with a fast recovery move, such as 3B, 4B, etc., and then do B+K CE.
Damn.

I should go back and test this... I've been going for 6BBB all this time. 95 DMG meterless plus oki... (Maybe a little less due to no real CH damage, but it shouldn't be much.)

... Well, if I look at the numbers, if you can hit the same moves (B+K has to be close like 6BBB), you're essentially paying 1 bar for +28 damage. That'd be good for finishing rounds, but I dunno about general use...

66B normal combo is 77 DMG plus oki, 66B, CE is 109 DMG, paying a bar for +32 damage. Not bad, I guess. I just don't like 66B, CE at all though.