Windstar
[13] Hero
I wasn't aware this was the Pyrrha discussion thread. Let's get back on topic, please.
Patroklos Pre-Release Discussion
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TheNoirEffect
[12] Conqueror
Im I the only having a problem with Patroklos' stance? It's awkward and unpractical, would a warrior really hold his/her arm level with their head in a fight?
Tael
[12] Conqueror
He must "practice" a lot to have an arm that strong ;)
0VincentRayne0
Faith
i'm not sure. now that you point it out i'm reminded that i felt it was awkward as well. i remember hearing something about having your sword away from your opponent at eye length. i think it was something about them not seeing the exact length of the sword and therefore would not be able to know precisely how to fight against it. the same for spears with the thread at the base of the blade. it distracts the opponent from where the blade actually is. especially if there is blood on the blade.
but this is only a guess to why he's holding it that way.
KiraxSummers
[13] Hero
Nice theory but I wonder if they actually thought that much about it ;)
Soul
Valide Kösem Sultan
I thought Malfested means "clear" or"visible".
Signia
[13] Hero
That's "manifest"
Soul
Valide Kösem Sultan
Oh right....my bad
TheNoirEffect
[12] Conqueror
Tbh I'm sick of speculation. I just want everyone to shut up and enjoy the game. Sheesh
Edit: Patroklos & Pyrrha = Jin Kazama & Asuka Kazama
Edit: Patroklos & Pyrrha = Jin Kazama & Asuka Kazama
Signia
[13] Hero
So, I played a lot of Patroklos at SCR.
I didn't get to test anything since people just wanted to play, so I just tested strategies and combos I'd prepared for in advance. Most of the move list is already covered by Bibulus, it's not a long move list.
Stuff he missed:
6A - high poke that has low disadvantage/advantage. Looks like it tracks? Not very fast.
4A and 44A - both are tracking mids? the slower one 44A seems really safe to the point of advantage, crazy for a tracking mid. They have like no range though so it's hard to find a use for it when it's that slow.
44B+K - retreating UB. The retreat actually works pretty well but you need know the spacings of the attacks that are coming at you to use it properly, and so it's difficult to determine the right way to use it.
11B - Reverse ring out launcher. Combos into BT B+K for a decent distance reverse ringout.
A+B
44K - high roundhouse kick that slo-mo stuns on CH. Decent speed, range, and tracking. Never did test it out its effectiveness in tougher matches though.
22K - High ringout/wallsplat kick. Didn't use it much, but this might be the go-to ringout whiff punisher
With single-B, his lows, power mids, gimmicky frame traps, 6B string to ward off aggressive players, and 3A and 66B to out-zone like everybody, I was able to put forth a scary offense.
One glaring problem though: His forward dash is ASS. It feels really stiff closing the distance with movement and you have to do that A LOT if you want to use your mixup tools. Stuff that gives advantage pushes back just far enough away that it you have to take a risk. I had to use single-B and BB (often whiffed) to enforce frame advantage much more than I wanted to. 3KK worked ok I guess but the damage wasn't anything to write home about. Instead, his great backstep finds use in those situations. You're pretty much safe to everything and you have pretty good whiff punish options.
An awesome thing that I didn't see until I played: 3A is amazing. Its range, tracking and TC make it a top-5 move. Just zoning with that move and 1K made a decent strategy. On hit it doesn't push them back at all leading to your awesome mixup. If you're not convinced of his crazy mixup potential I'll write something up later.
I didn't get to test anything since people just wanted to play, so I just tested strategies and combos I'd prepared for in advance. Most of the move list is already covered by Bibulus, it's not a long move list.
Stuff he missed:
6A - high poke that has low disadvantage/advantage. Looks like it tracks? Not very fast.
4A and 44A - both are tracking mids? the slower one 44A seems really safe to the point of advantage, crazy for a tracking mid. They have like no range though so it's hard to find a use for it when it's that slow.
44B+K - retreating UB. The retreat actually works pretty well but you need know the spacings of the attacks that are coming at you to use it properly, and so it's difficult to determine the right way to use it.
11B - Reverse ring out launcher. Combos into BT B+K for a decent distance reverse ringout.
A+B
44K - high roundhouse kick that slo-mo stuns on CH. Decent speed, range, and tracking. Never did test it out its effectiveness in tougher matches though.
22K - High ringout/wallsplat kick. Didn't use it much, but this might be the go-to ringout whiff punisher
With single-B, his lows, power mids, gimmicky frame traps, 6B string to ward off aggressive players, and 3A and 66B to out-zone like everybody, I was able to put forth a scary offense.
One glaring problem though: His forward dash is ASS. It feels really stiff closing the distance with movement and you have to do that A LOT if you want to use your mixup tools. Stuff that gives advantage pushes back just far enough away that it you have to take a risk. I had to use single-B and BB (often whiffed) to enforce frame advantage much more than I wanted to. 3KK worked ok I guess but the damage wasn't anything to write home about. Instead, his great backstep finds use in those situations. You're pretty much safe to everything and you have pretty good whiff punish options.
An awesome thing that I didn't see until I played: 3A is amazing. Its range, tracking and TC make it a top-5 move. Just zoning with that move and 1K made a decent strategy. On hit it doesn't push them back at all leading to your awesome mixup. If you're not convinced of his crazy mixup potential I'll write something up later.
Windstar
[13] Hero
Pat's 2P
Signia
[13] Hero
That's my Patroklos vs Ceirnan's Hilde.
Patroklos
[09] Warrior
OHHHH MY GOD I THINK I HAVE A POSSIBLE THEORY AS TO WHAT HAPPENED TO SOPHITIA AND MAYBE CASSANDRA BY THE TIME OF SOUL CALIBUR 5. Okay my theory is that once Soul Edge was "destroyed" by Siegfried, Sophitia gave up and mistook and thought her daughter (Pyrrha) was dead by then. Therefore she left home back to Rothion and most likely Cassandra, after that Patroklos was growing up and Sophitia trained him how to fight using her Athenian fighting style:
Rothion might have died after that, and Sophitia told Patroklos about Pyrrha. Then the malfested who were causing a calamity killed Sophitia and most probably Cassandra too (since she is not mentioned anywhere in the game's storyline as of yet), and that's the hole reason as to why Patroklos is so fascinated, or concerned by showing people the price of justice. JUSTICE JUSTICE, JUSTICE, he wants to kill the malfested, and find his older sister. That's when Z.W.E.I finds Patroklos and deems him to be worthy of Soul Calibur, and takes him to Siegfried. (as stated in Z.W.E.I's profile). Meanwhile Tira has sinister plans for Pyrrha to become the new host for Soul Edge. Therefore Patroklos served Graf Dumas to find and kill the Malfested who invaded his family. ~It's just a speculation, who knows maybe I am way off. I hope I am, I don't want Sophie nor Cassie to be dead, but I think evidence kind of points that they are. :( Then again I hope I am wrong about that.
Rothion might have died after that, and Sophitia told Patroklos about Pyrrha. Then the malfested who were causing a calamity killed Sophitia and most probably Cassandra too (since she is not mentioned anywhere in the game's storyline as of yet), and that's the hole reason as to why Patroklos is so fascinated, or concerned by showing people the price of justice. JUSTICE JUSTICE, JUSTICE, he wants to kill the malfested, and find his older sister. That's when Z.W.E.I finds Patroklos and deems him to be worthy of Soul Calibur, and takes him to Siegfried. (as stated in Z.W.E.I's profile). Meanwhile Tira has sinister plans for Pyrrha to become the new host for Soul Edge. Therefore Patroklos served Graf Dumas to find and kill the Malfested who invaded his family. ~It's just a speculation, who knows maybe I am way off. I hope I am, I don't want Sophie nor Cassie to be dead, but I think evidence kind of points that they are. :( Then again I hope I am wrong about that.
KiraxSummers
[13] Hero
Duuude... Pat's 2p is kinda fugly :/ Nothing a little CaS can't fix though :)
As for your theory, Patroklos, I think you are only off on the 'Sophie trained him' part. In his bio, it stated that he was raised by Rothion who would tell him about his mother. He talks about justice because he's under the impression his mom was like that too XD He basically idolizes the mother he lost which is actually really cute :)
Again that's all assumption based on the profile data.
As for your theory, Patroklos, I think you are only off on the 'Sophie trained him' part. In his bio, it stated that he was raised by Rothion who would tell him about his mother. He talks about justice because he's under the impression his mom was like that too XD He basically idolizes the mother he lost which is actually really cute :)
Again that's all assumption based on the profile data.
Violent Vodka
Pick Your Poison
He's gonna find out she went after Soul Edge and use it to find her... or something.
Pat728
[09] Warrior
To those that have played the demos: Is paroklos similar to cassandra or is he more of a unique character?
Violent Vodka
Pick Your Poison
I haven't played, but based on multiple videos of him, he seems more of his own character. Very few moves that resemble Cassandra/Sophitia.
BrewtusBibulus
Get your eSports on!
Here goes my first attempt to put the pieces together and make a cohesive gameplan with Patroklos. He looks like he's going to be the king of the knockdown and in your face mixups
Knockdown moves - 236B - This leads to a tech trap from midrange and I think a free 236K near a wall/edge where there is no pushback.
236B$ - This gives the same knockdown as 236B against airborne opponents. So any launch for half a meter gives a tech trap.
A+B - This looks like free 2A+B into tech trap
66A$ - Another free 2A+B into tech trap
Options for tech traps from midrange - 66A$ this is maybe the best tech trap move in the game. The followup gives advantage on block and hits grounded. So if they play dead you're still in a great situation.
3A - Replacement for 66A without meter, sets up point blank mixups on any hit.
236A,B - Another meterless replacement to stop tech. You are going to have to let the dash go for a little bit to cover the ground and make it connect in open ground.
2A+B - This is your ideal punisher for someone playing dead. It will give a tech trap off any grounded hit and reset the situation. Probably not applicable for many midrange tech traps.
236K - Big damage and leaves you with great wakeup after it. This is great for punishing playing dead or ending juggles. To use in midrange tech traps you need to let the dash slide for a bit to cover distance enough to have it hit.
Meter usage is going to be dependent on meter generation. I don't know how often 66A$ is going to come into play for that reason and I think CE combo ender is going to be RO or bust. I really don't see where he's going to use his meter because 1B$ is meh, you can use do 1B and hit confirm 236B$ into tech traps. CE does mediocre damage in comparison and uses twice the meter off most setups where it's scaled (IE 66B+K combos, but something like 3B CE might be unscaled enough to make it worth the meter usage.)
*$ Denotes BE/EX moves
Knockdown moves - 236B - This leads to a tech trap from midrange and I think a free 236K near a wall/edge where there is no pushback.
236B$ - This gives the same knockdown as 236B against airborne opponents. So any launch for half a meter gives a tech trap.
A+B - This looks like free 2A+B into tech trap
66A$ - Another free 2A+B into tech trap
Options for tech traps from midrange - 66A$ this is maybe the best tech trap move in the game. The followup gives advantage on block and hits grounded. So if they play dead you're still in a great situation.
3A - Replacement for 66A without meter, sets up point blank mixups on any hit.
236A,B - Another meterless replacement to stop tech. You are going to have to let the dash go for a little bit to cover the ground and make it connect in open ground.
2A+B - This is your ideal punisher for someone playing dead. It will give a tech trap off any grounded hit and reset the situation. Probably not applicable for many midrange tech traps.
236K - Big damage and leaves you with great wakeup after it. This is great for punishing playing dead or ending juggles. To use in midrange tech traps you need to let the dash slide for a bit to cover distance enough to have it hit.
Meter usage is going to be dependent on meter generation. I don't know how often 66A$ is going to come into play for that reason and I think CE combo ender is going to be RO or bust. I really don't see where he's going to use his meter because 1B$ is meh, you can use do 1B and hit confirm 236B$ into tech traps. CE does mediocre damage in comparison and uses twice the meter off most setups where it's scaled (IE 66B+K combos, but something like 3B CE might be unscaled enough to make it worth the meter usage.)
*$ Denotes BE/EX moves
BrewtusBibulus
Get your eSports on!
Way unique
Signia
[13] Hero
What tech traps? I tried 3A, 236A, and 66A after 236B$ and they all whiffed. I'm not sure about 2A+B grounded though, I always just used 236K for my grounded enders.
For A+B I don't think anything is guaranteed after hitting, they can tech away pretty fast if I remember correctly
As far as a basic gameplan, he can dominate up close, but you have to keep in mind his annoying lack of range on 6B, BB, and even 236B.
2A and backstep are very hard to deal with.
It seems like if you try and play it safe and not throw out 236B stop them, Pat doesn't have offensive answer for 2A. After hitting with anything but 3A or if they block 1B, It's a good time to press the advantage, but BB in this situation will likely whiff on the second hit, the second hit of 6BBB string will whiff, and everything else is too slow. 3KK does not stun on CH and does very little damage. It's also a mid-high string which probably has to be carefully hit-confirmed or else is unsafe, and I'm not even sure whether it stands them up on hit. My solution was to just single-B. On block or hit, the second hit threatens, so I used that opportunity to get closer or 1K.
It's really annoying that Pat has great close range tools but is at the mercy of 2A. You have to space very carefully against someone who 2As a lot. It's best to discourage them as much as possible by backstep whiff punishing and 9B. If they start using other interrupts you can usually hurt them really bad with 6BBB. If they turtle up there should be no end to the 1B, single B, and low spam. If they duck it's time to pull out 66B/2A+B mixups.
This all doesn't take into account stepping and backstepping. 3A should be used a lot as part of your mid/low mixup to cover this especially if they like to try to high-poke you out of disadvantage since the TC is reliable. The problem is, if they block you're right in their face at severe disadvantage. If don't want to be giving them free mixups all the time, you have to do a lot of chasing down which feels really awkward because Pat's single-tap forward steps are the shortest I've ever seen so you have to dash in.
Even if they never stop 2Aing or backstep G, it's big problem which limits your game at advantage. This is why it's probably best to knock them down as much as possible instead of messing with them at advantage.
Most likely, the most important things to keep in mind will be whether then can 2A, punish 236B hard, or whether they can keep you out. They probably can't do all three... hmm Pyrrha probably can. If they can only 2A, then 236B them to stop them. If they can't 2A, rush that shit down. If they can do both 2A and punish, it might be good to keep them out? It's not that far-fetched when you consider how good 3A is. For example it worked pretty well against Maxi for example to just 3A, back off if it hits and whiff punish if they try to 2A you. If they stop 2Aing you can do the "normal" gameplan.
Idk, this is how I felt playing the character. It's really really awkward fighting people who know how to backstep safely or 2A a lot.
For A+B I don't think anything is guaranteed after hitting, they can tech away pretty fast if I remember correctly
As far as a basic gameplan, he can dominate up close, but you have to keep in mind his annoying lack of range on 6B, BB, and even 236B.
2A and backstep are very hard to deal with.
It seems like if you try and play it safe and not throw out 236B stop them, Pat doesn't have offensive answer for 2A. After hitting with anything but 3A or if they block 1B, It's a good time to press the advantage, but BB in this situation will likely whiff on the second hit, the second hit of 6BBB string will whiff, and everything else is too slow. 3KK does not stun on CH and does very little damage. It's also a mid-high string which probably has to be carefully hit-confirmed or else is unsafe, and I'm not even sure whether it stands them up on hit. My solution was to just single-B. On block or hit, the second hit threatens, so I used that opportunity to get closer or 1K.
It's really annoying that Pat has great close range tools but is at the mercy of 2A. You have to space very carefully against someone who 2As a lot. It's best to discourage them as much as possible by backstep whiff punishing and 9B. If they start using other interrupts you can usually hurt them really bad with 6BBB. If they turtle up there should be no end to the 1B, single B, and low spam. If they duck it's time to pull out 66B/2A+B mixups.
This all doesn't take into account stepping and backstepping. 3A should be used a lot as part of your mid/low mixup to cover this especially if they like to try to high-poke you out of disadvantage since the TC is reliable. The problem is, if they block you're right in their face at severe disadvantage. If don't want to be giving them free mixups all the time, you have to do a lot of chasing down which feels really awkward because Pat's single-tap forward steps are the shortest I've ever seen so you have to dash in.
Even if they never stop 2Aing or backstep G, it's big problem which limits your game at advantage. This is why it's probably best to knock them down as much as possible instead of messing with them at advantage.
Most likely, the most important things to keep in mind will be whether then can 2A, punish 236B hard, or whether they can keep you out. They probably can't do all three... hmm Pyrrha probably can. If they can only 2A, then 236B them to stop them. If they can't 2A, rush that shit down. If they can do both 2A and punish, it might be good to keep them out? It's not that far-fetched when you consider how good 3A is. For example it worked pretty well against Maxi for example to just 3A, back off if it hits and whiff punish if they try to 2A you. If they stop 2Aing you can do the "normal" gameplan.
Idk, this is how I felt playing the character. It's really really awkward fighting people who know how to backstep safely or 2A a lot.
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