Patroklos Q&A/Discussion Thread

I feel useful! :D

Actually, maybe it's stage specific? The one I tried this combo on... I can't remember the name, but the first stage was a long, thin corridor with one edge and three walls, and if you rung out, you'd end up in a pit. I only tried it on the top level.

Exactly how safe is A+B? I know it's really steppable, but I couldn't even punish it with A, A. Might be one of those things just Natsu and Alpha can hit... But, I wouldn't really use it as a poke. You could frametrap using 66A BE, maybe?

Angelsama
I use it after 66B,66 B+K.It does descent damage, and leaves you able to control the match afterwards. I haven't tested it against the wall to see how it works, but I will do so.​
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What sort of options do you have after that?
 
I've been using 8A+B as a combo ender when I go for ring outs. It carries the opponent pretty far so you can get a ring out from a distance where you normally couldn't. I tried your wall combo though and it's awesome!
 
Stage specific, I'll get the details later. Also, it's 110 dmg. Basically, anywhere with a corner...details to follow.

Edit yeaaah: Stage-specific indeed. The wall needs to be flat and high, I think, and the spacing is kind of tricky. Stages 8A+B splat on tend to have more than one wall, too... I'm not very extensive in this. Still, this is more damage for less meter than most wall combos, so...

So far:
Old Quarter (corner and wall)
Mechanical Spider (corner and wall)
Sinking Merchant Ship [second ring] (corner and wall)
 
I honestly only use it for dash mind games really. Besides that maybe a occasional wall combo but yeah its a very impractical move.
 
prediction i think Patro will be mid tier at best. He is slow but very strong and probably needs to climb through some hurdles to beat some people.
 
Kenjitsu_Hokori said:
prediction i think Patro will be mid tier at best. He is slow but very strong and probably needs to climb through some hurdles to beat some people.
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He has to climb a very long hurdle when fighting Siegfried. I'm sure I'm not the only one having a hard time with that match up. Anyone wanna share some tactics on how to beat him? I always use 3A to get in but his 3B always beats it.
 
66B is my sieg tester majority of the time. and 3A whenever he decided to use A's since patro can duck under a lot of stuff. but its a very very VERY patient game for patro when fighting mr fried.
 
RuinousBloom said:
He has to climb a very long hurdle when fighting Siegfried. I'm sure I'm not the only one having a hard time with that match up. Anyone wanna share some tactics on how to beat him? I always use 3A to get in but his 3B always beats it.
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Stay close, and step like a madman. Many Sieg players will use 3B as a panic button. Try to bait them into whiffing a few and punish 'em hard for it.

But, when stepping, be ready to guard his 6A's, 22_88A's or aGA's. aGA is the nastiest, but also the hardest input. At range, beware his SBH A. Many people who play me online underestimate its reach.
 
MrOlson said:
What exactly do those numbers mean? For example, you just said -2, I've heard it thrown out for other moves too.
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In fighting games you measure speed in frames. In SC specifically, one of the fastest 'speeds' is i10. This changes from game to game (for example, in SFIV, 3 frame moves are usually the standard for fast). If you see i10 next to a description of a move, it is another way of saying: this move starts in 10 frames. When you're talking about how safe a move is on block, or how advantageous it is on hit, numbers like +2 or -4 might come up. If Patroklos' 66B is blocked, for example, he is at -2 (frame disadvantage). Another example to explain this:

Two Mitsurugi's are facing each other. Both of their As are i10 (or 10 f start-up / 10 f execution / 10 f speed). If they both hit A simultaneously, they will trade. Why? Because their move both starts at the exact same time. If one Mitsurugi was at -2, he would have lost that battle. He would be 2 frames slower than the opposing Mitsurugi because he is at frame disadvantage.

Now in the Patroklos situation, you're at -2 after a blocked 66B. If you try to do an i10 move right afterwards, and your opponent Mitsu does A (i10), who wins? Mitsurugi, because the -2 slows down Patroklos' move just like in the Mitsurugi mirror, (effectively making it i12).

Similarly, if you do a REALLY punishable move that leaves you at say, -22. Well then that's just horrendous isn't it? You're so unsafe that any move that starts up in 22 frames or less can punish you. Negative frames are just another way of saying : you are in recovery for this many frames / you are punishable for this many frames.

More notes:

- Patro's 66B (which is -2 on block) can't really be punished, because not many moves exist that are 1 or 2 frames. [I think Asta/Ivy's grab supers are 1 frame though]

- If a move that is -14 on guard is blocked by your opponent, than the character that blocked it may respond with a move 14 frames or faster to punish them.

-If a move that is +3 on guard is blocked by your opponent, you are at frame advantage. This means your opponent is stuck in block stun (the opposite of negative frames, when you are the one recovering), for 3 whole frames. Any move you perform will come out 3 frames faster than your opponent. If you and your opponent both perform an i10 move in this situation, your move technically becomes i7 instead of i10, because you are at 3 frames of advantage. To re-emphasize: your opponent can't do anything for 3 whole frames. Your move will therefore beat your opponents i10 move. This concept serves as the foundation for "frame traps".

Think about examples like this and see if you can figure out what happens:

- Natsu's move is blocked, it is -16 on block. Mitsurugi's 236B is i15. Can Mitsurugi punish Natsu's move? Is Natsu's move considered unsafe?

- Nightmare does a huge sword swing that is +4 on block. Ezio tries to do an i10 move after he blocks the sword swing. If Nightmare decides to do a move that is i12, who will win this battle? Nightmare, who's move speed is i12, or Ezio at i10?

Sorry if went off track a bit. It's a broad topic and really hard to explain. Hope it helped somewhat :)
 
If you mess up punishing with 234B and pull out 3b (i do a lot) or jus use 3b (fairly safe move) follow up with 8A+B, i like it, its flashy leaves them with a lil stun on the floor and you in their face, also you can use it to stop people rushing straight at you (like natsu's do a lot) and it also RO's nicely
 
well the only ones i can think is...

after 66A(BE) +8 on block.....or....after 22_88 A[A] +16 on block, but this one is too easy to evade, just crouching.

anyone know more frame traps for patroklos??...maybe some on hit?

thanks
 
greetings y'all, I think our resident genius drake has already discussed somewhere the damage reduction on BE moves and CE when strung into combos. At the moment my general strat is save up meter and when I have space throw it all out in 66A, 66A~ABK, 1B~ABK, CE. However it does pitiful damge really, its flashy which is a plus for me, and you dont waste it on their block as you can scout the first hit with 66A and I think after that its garunteed, or Ive been playing bad people, but still its not really an intelligent way to use meter.
So any tips for how to use Pats CE on its own? its got real bad range so you have to be right in their face, Ive had mixed succes with pressuring with justice step and trying to pull it out when they drop their gaurd, but often I jus get smacked by a BB. Advice/tips anyone?
Also another noob question, what is the best way to finish 66b, 66b+k? ive seen all sorts, at the moment im using JS B. Ive seen people use 66A+B which is higher damage but I cant land it everytime, i think they can oki out of it or something.
 
only use CE in combos when you are near the edge of a ring/barrier....will be a ring out for sure.

if you want to make big damage with Pat's CE, do it after a 3B(like 100 dmg)...or for block punishing, Pat's CE is i13, that means if you block any move that is -13 or more on block you can punish it with the Pat's CE
 
Alrighty...I didn't see it here in this thread, but I'm having some trouble facing Nightmare. I've tried being safe...A little 6BB here and there, but overall it just seems like a very hard matchup. And my friend is VERY good at using him as well, using the mixups to his advantage. Any tips and/or tricks for fighting against Nightmare?
 
Vaan706 said:
Alrighty...I didn't see it here in this thread, but I'm having some trouble facing Nightmare. I've tried being safe...A little 6BB here and there, but overall it just seems like a very hard matchup. And my friend is VERY good at using him as well, using the mixups to his advantage. Any tips and/or tricks for fighting against Nightmare?
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Always when you have trouble with another character, the better way is read his frame data, and look for the punishables, make a list and then test in practice mode, that's the best you can do ;)

Another thing is....make good use of the moves with special properties, like:
-A+B autoGI mid weapon based attacks...look for all the mids from night, and test which can be punished with A+B

-B+K tech crouches highs....just press B+K when you know a High attack is coming, and do very good damage with that ;)

practice man ;)
 
ka_kui said:
Always when you have trouble with another character, the better way is read his frame data, and look for the punishables, make a list and then test in practice mode, that's the best you can do ;)

Another thing is....make good use of the moves with special properties, like:
-A+B autoGI mid weapon based attacks...look for all the mids from night, and test which can be punished with A+B

-B+K tech crouches highs....just press B+K when you know a High attack is coming, and do very good damage with that ;)

practice man ;)
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Thanks man. I tried looking for his frame data...I guess they didn't list it yet? Idk I may be looking in the wrong area lol but thanks. I do recall punishing him with a couple B+K's. And I REALLY learned to use A+B autoGI against him as well. Is there a page for his frame data? I didn't see it in the character thread...and thanks again.
 
Vaan706 said:
Thanks man. I tried looking for his frame data...I guess they didn't list it yet? Idk I may be looking in the wrong area lol but thanks. I do recall punishing him with a couple B+K's. And I REALLY learned to use A+B autoGI against him as well. Is there a page for his frame data? I didn't see it in the character thread...and thanks again.
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Get the guide. Nightmare is kinda tough until you get in, then it's free.
 
well doing some research i get this info.....

0(cero) frame moves on block:
-1B(0 frames on block).......after 1B you get 0 frames, the only characters that can win in a battle of AA's after block your Pat's 1B is natsu, leixia, etc....but if you do 236B after a 1B you will tech crouches AA and win.

-22_88A[A] give you +16 on block, you can get a free 236B, or a free CE, and the oponent can't block....but....the move is so easy to evade, just crouch both AA's. :/


-66A(BE) +8 on block(that means you have 8 frames of advantage)....follow ups:
-236B(i15)...-8 frames = 7 frames of advantage
-6BBB(i15)...-8 frames = 7 frames of advantage
-3B(i18)...-8 frames = 10 frames of advantage, moves like natsu AA(i10) can be dangerous, but we always have 236B ;)
-8A+B(i18)...-8 frames = 10 frames of advantage, moves like natsu AA(i10) can be dangerous
-BB(i14)...-8 frames = 6 frames of advantage
-44KK(i17)...-8 frames = 9 frames of advantage
-6A(i18)...-8 frames = 10 frames of advantage


ON HIT:
-66A +12 advantage on hit....you can do: 236B, 3B, 66B, and win any AA or BB
-6A +10 advantage on hit....you can do: 236b, 3B, and win any AA or BB.......66B just with character with movements slower than 11 frames....like aeon AA(i13)

moves that give +8 on hit, and let you do this options; 1.- 236B ; 2.- 3B ; 3.- 6BBB.
-2A...just do option 1.
-4B...do options 1, 2 and 3.
-6K...do options 1 and 2.
-44A...do options 1 and 2.


thats all the frame traps i can find...if you have more or some corrections fell free to post.

thanks ;)
 
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