Proper Raph Guide

step back diagonally out of range...
Or step back and fast range attack..
Thats the point...if you guess good you are blocked, if not you whiff -.- risk reward sucks.
I really tried anything...
 
darkfender said:
step back diagonally out of range...
Or step back and fast range attack..
Thats the point...if you guess good you are blocked, if not you whiff -.- risk reward sucks.
I really tried anything...
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SG damage on block... I play a Soul Crush game with Raph.
 
I'd explain myself, but it would be a lengthy post and I'm not sure if it'd be on topic since it's a very specific way of playing a single character... can go to PM's if you want.
 
darkfender said:
u are not gonna win 3 rounds of CF against a skilled player..maybe 1 or 2 but not 3
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so? once you get them antsy with your CH game you can CH the hell out of him....either you aren't thinking about your posts or you are complaining for the sake of complaining
 
well i use him daily from the release on and offline...

if you are so strong how comes that nor you nor any raph did decently in an offline competition?
how comes that lot of proven players still couldn't finda way to profit him?

His main strength is still to be quite unknown to most players and you can profit that a lot....(note that i am not talking about scrubs but even a solid player cannot exploit his weaknesses if he doesn t have a good anti raph experience).

i ll say again
Give me a left tracking MID of 17-8 frames that works on both step than 8wr and i am good with raph...without it...its up to your opponent noticing that with fast pokes can force you to make decisions with LOW reward and HUGE risk (and works just with 30% cast).
 
So you're saying that without this fast left tracking mid Raphael is useless? Well... he's certainly not getting this move in 4, so wait for 5.
 
how many characters have an i17 track mid that catches both directions? answer: very few
I don't even use raph in tourney because hes boring...for me to do well I have to have fun so I play maxi and algol(in casuals). It helps me stay alert and when im alert and into it I guess much better
I found SC3 raph to be much more fun then SC4 raph but SC4 raph is much stronger

raph in his current incarnation with spammable step kill would be broken...they already tried giving him that BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
 
I think what he's saying is some characters have some sort of vertical that tracks due to a combination of s huge hitbox width and actual character alignment.

At a certain range, against characters who will spam step-safe moves on block, get used to
1) either delaying your low pokes (and then dealing with being at - frames and the fact that their step/8wayrun always gets them closer to you.)
2) delaying your verticals so you can do some pushback or at least some sort of stance/naked mixup (will fail against 8wayrun)
3) doing a high horizontal that WILL get blocked but at least you know exactly what you're getting into.
4) dash at them (seems unraph-like) or start back pedaling (which is imo lame)
 
Ups i meant a midrange left tracker =<17 that cover both 8wr and step (a better version of 4K i mean)
exactly what wuht is saying aside the fact that a backstep can go outside of raph range for left tracking highs
 
dark:
There aren't much characters with a move like that. I think there's probably less than 10 moves in the game that are like that. At close range, opt for 2A and throws. Play a little more carefully outside that range.

Although I'm wondering what your playstyle is like considering that this is a REQUIREMENT for u :)
 
sorry if this is already posted but i have learned based off of experiments and matchups that prep is very solid in regards to evading and countering a person that would attempt to punish prep instead of step it.

Off of 3[B} on block to VE it will avoid verticals that are i16. (most chars have an i16 B/BB or 2B so this is useful)

prep K TJs 2A and 2K interruptions. i also think the K:K is useful for impatient players that would punish directly after blocking the first K. probably why its so slow so it looks like it has a delay.

prep A is risky but it interrupts 2Asfew AAs and mid interruptors i THINK it has slight tracking to his strong side.
(its his best interruptor so that would explain why its risky on block and at disadv on NH)

prep B i need to test more im assuming that at certain angles it would kill step. (lol)

prep A+B ah good if you 100% predict a high. if used at tip range it could evade 2As and some 2Bs but its slow so the opponent can time it to interrupt. i also think that A+B would be just good for players who just block prep and damage the SG. which would explain why its so punishable because raph has a good SG/Spacing game to back it up.

so basically saying you have to observe your opponent well to figure out how they'll punish prep, so if you are good at predicting then prep could be useful but it can always be a severe disadvantage too.

yes we all know that prep isnt mandatory for every match. im just pointing out its usages. I THINK that it is good for mixups against people who dont know raph on a high level.

Iogical, but i found out that when raphs weak side is near a wall, he is at a big advantage.
 
optymuss said:
sorry if this is already posted but i have learned based off of experiments and matchups that prep is very solid in regards to evading and countering a person that would attempt to punish prep instead of step it.

Off of 3[B} on block to VE it will avoid verticals that are i16. (most chars have an i16 B/BB or 2B so this is useful)
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off to 3B VE is plain punished....before the transition OR in the worst case blocked and ducked on the second hit.
You can step AND still blocking VE also.

prep K TJs 2A and 2K interruptions. i also think the K:K is useful for impatient players that would punish directly after blocking the first K. probably why its so slow so it looks like it has a delay.
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in that case prepA would work better i don t think anybody would risk....
prep A is risky but it interrupts 2Asfew AAs and mid interruptors i THINK it has slight tracking to his strong side.
(its his best interruptor so that would explain why its risky on block and at disadv on NH)
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its also unsafe and ppl prefer to eat it on NH or just step it the fact that it slightly tracks on the strong side (i doubt it) is completely irrelevant....who would step on the strong side?

prep B i need to test more im assuming that at certain angles it would kill step. (lol)
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it depends from range AND timing in pressing the button.
prep A+B ah good if you 100% predict a high. if used at tip range it could evade 2As and some 2Bs but its slow so the opponent can time it to interrupt. i also think that A+B would be just good for players who just block prep and damage the SG. which would explain why its so punishable because raph has a good SG/Spacing game to back it up.
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its actually a very good option due to the huge backstep...it works against things like mitsu FC1BB

U really miss the ONLY 2 options that makes prep not a suicide....
SEA B and SEA A. but only if 3B is blocked at tip range AND only in some matchups.

They have to be used at certain range but they kill step on different sides...
The problem remain a ridiculous risk/reward against raphael and the fact that raphael problem is that with a certain strategy you 'll have problem to force opponent even to block the starting 3B

good thing is 3B is i16 with a good range and thus a great punisher yet if opponent can safely step from -2 to -6 he simply will do so and continue playing in that range of frames so you have even to risk with safe moves just hoping to land a kick and get few frames of advantage to work with.

I am so sad i begun to study raphael seriously just when they removed his tracking BB Q__Q
 
Belial said:
I'd like to share my opinions on Raph. I wont convince you he's not bad. That's probably still the case. But I firmly believe that last thing a normal person wants to hear is complains and excuses. If you do - you really be better off not playing video games any time soon. They're all a disappointment one way or another.
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Yeah. When I play people who whine about their character's weaknesses rather than trying to pinpoint their own mistakes, it's no surprise that the next time we play those players show little improvement.

However I must disagree with the rest. Raph sucks! I played in France last week and got battered by everyone, except I beat 3 Raphs out of 3! QED!!

No no I joke. I think Raph can be strong so long as you stick to optimum (mid) range. I agree w/ Belial about unpredictability. If Raph stays at mid range and avoids the temptation to charge in with Prep and 236B, he is a very frustrating character. He has relatively quick mid-range pokes which suit his style as a fencer. If they get too close you have 1K and 44B (must read your opponent tho, can be GI'd and stepped).

He reminds me of Nightmare. Against Nightmare you can simply turtle to stop all of NM's mixups using Grim Stride. So an effective strat with Nightmare is to use moves that transition into GS, but not do the transition, or do empty GS, or use backstep/step/NSS instead. With Raph you can't be suckered into just going 3 [ B ] or 66 [ B ] mixup over and over. It gives your opponent an easy way out (step) just like GS gives NM's opponents and easy way out (2A or block and punish).

So I think against faster charcters, good idea is to play lame, zoning and poking. Frustrate them by keeping them out, no need to go for the huge damage combos.

The stances are much better if used unpredictably. Prep A is steppable, punishable, and low NC damage. But if you can make your opponent forget about it by never using it, what a tool it could be in later rounds! Irritate the opponent with 3B and 3 [ B ] BB, and then when you get a sense they want to TC / interrupt, hit them with the huge staple combo.

But yeah I think being unpredictable with the stance transitions is key. If Taki just did A,B,PO and 1B,A,PO over and over, no-one would have a hard time stopping her. But if she is using it sparsely and mixing with her 1/2/3-hit strings, suddenly she's not so predictable and it can be hard to find an opening to attack.

I don't envy you Raph players tho, I'll stick to my i11 AA. XD
 
its not a whine its a character design....
I don't like at all how some french raph u beated plays expecially copdt7 a player who comes from online and IMHO had tons of online habits he payed SO hard when he begun to play offline......(i used to read french forum and watch videos).

Raphael needs his style to be rebalanced...he payed the toll on SCIV mechanics too heavily without BB.
I often plays without preps at all mostly because of the tactic i exposed before....its quite brainless but i works too well...and a tactic that work ALSO on paper so well is just a proof of unbalance.

For the prep thing you should study raph deeper....it changes COMPLETELY with proper spacing.......if u land a 3B on block at tip its not so easy to force opponent in a 50% mixup if u land a 3B on block at close range the mixup becomes something from 20 to 0% depending on matchup.

Then not all stances are the same...
11AB prep is more solid.

the problem is that is not easy EVEN to have a 3B blocked when you opponent just poke => step G OR full step G (or depending on distance step and duck) or attack with an i10-11:
ANY non tracking move will wiff.
ANY weak side tracking move will be 30% blocked/hit for few dmg 70% whiff.

AND it shuts down any CF game....using i20+ moves is too risky also cause it means 50% blocked 50% CH


consider that when i face some characters i see the move than beats my choice, and then check wich options i have....checking also frame data...when u see that your options are all horrible risky and hasn t ANY reward at all there is the problem....

If only 6K had full left tracking there would'nt be any problem...instead you have to choose between 4K, 6K, 44K, OR step forward 3B or B knowing that if u guess wrong u WHIFF if u guess right u ARE BLOCKED 90% the last 10 is 20 dmg and few frames of advantage...when u whiff instead u lose 60+.

P.S. AA => autoevade in SE ;P do SEA A and you are TC till end of animation
 
11AB magically whiffs compared to 44AB.. which i'm sure everyone here knows and was probably a typo.

Anyways, the reason you even enter prep off of 3B is for
1) assumed that it hit on NH and it'll double your damage
2) CH fishing assumng 3B is blocked and the other guy is gonna take a risk.

3B on block by itself is absolutely wonderful as you can just see what the opponent does and train them to react in a certain way, while dealing decent SG damage and pushing them far away enough so that you're pretty much safe except for the fastest jf umbrellas.
50/50s is not raph's strong suite, but once you analyzed your opponent you can generally determine if you're able to bait them to whiff and punish properly with either 44B, 4B or 22B combos AFTER you watch their response.
If they do nothing, then you just turned -14 into 0! hooray!
If they just Step-G and wait for raph, then they've just re-aligned themselves by the time raph has recovered from 3B.
If they continue to 8wayrun.. then its a lil trickier (I have not solved this as some characters have launchers that TC and/or TS out of 8wayrun and it hurts a LOT. I've been finding that empty prep where you start advancing towards them. messes up their spacing and you can usually block in time, good agaisnt kilik 1B for instance.)

Anyways I don't wanna just say "you gotta be smarter than your opponent to win".

And against X, I find that raph's 44B can really work against X's 8_5B bullshit.
 
darkfender said:
off to 3B VE is plain punished....before the transition OR in the worst case blocked and ducked on the second hit.
You can step AND still blocking VE also.

in that case prepA would work better i don t think anybody would risk....

its also unsafe and ppl prefer to eat it on NH or just step it the fact that it slightly tracks on the strong side (i doubt it) is completely irrelevant....who would step on the strong side?

it depends from range AND timing in pressing the button.

its actually a very good option due to the huge backstep...it works against things like mitsu FC1BB

U really miss the ONLY 2 options that makes prep not a suicide....
SEA B and SEA A. but only if 3B is blocked at tip range AND only in some matchups.

They have to be used at certain range but they kill step on different sides...
The problem remain a ridiculous risk/reward against raphael and the fact that raphael problem is that with a certain strategy you 'll have problem to force opponent even to block the starting 3B

good thing is 3B is i16 with a good range and thus a great punisher yet if opponent can safely step from -2 to -6 he simply will do so and continue playing in that range of frames so you have even to risk with safe moves just hoping to land a kick and get few frames of advantage to work with.

I am so sad i begun to study raphael seriously just when they removed his tracking BB Q__Q
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im guessing you werent paying attention, this is for people who WILL not step prep and try to punish it after blocking a move that will transition into prep. As i said previously prep can be a severe disadv too. so if you did VE without thinking or analyzing your opponent you WILL be punished because its like a 1/3 chance that you will evade a vertical due to the average player using 2A, AA, BB, or a grab to punish prep. this is also character specific due to some chars not having a 2A, a slow BB, or having a more faster or solid interruptor.

you put yourself into an argument by stating that you you should use prep A instead prep K when prep K puts you at a chance to follow a gimmick(very unlikely but STILL possible) with the second K string due to it being kinda slow, but then you say that prep A is more of a reward than prep K then you said that most people will step prep A and i aslo stated that it is risky and unsafe just as you did. you dont make sense......

as i said lastly if raphs weak side was near a wall then raph is at an advantage. why? because the wall/edge is blocking it, and preventing the opponent to step on his weak side, making prep A less risky if it does track on his strong side. IF IF IF notice how i use IF?

your comment with my assertion on prep B just restates what i said so you ARE agreeing with me. plus i also ASSUMED.

SEA and SEB or both risky in competitive play so its more of a suicide then prep itself. chars like soph and cass can kill SEA and SEB, and some chars can just close in the distanc while in the transition. what im saying overall and what i said previosly is that you need to analyze your opponent very well or make him/her predictable by intimidating him or provoking him which is what belial said i think. this is an SC tactic of course but with chars that have certain disadvantages you HAVE to do this.

i dont care if im corrected i just dont like people restating the same thing i have and thinking that they are saying the complete opposite or correcting me.
 
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