Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

Slade said:
Unless she does 22K, in which case RIP. I don't see much use for WR K over FC A in most situations.
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Not that I used it often, but WRK is fast with solid advantage and better damage and range. In the case of her 22K, it's a high so you can do FCA or a longer range FCK to take care of it.
 
Heh dug up my old gamecube adaptor 3-in-1 magic joy box.

Everything works fine except that the guard buttons have to be fully depressed to register and the 3 direction is very touchy (comes out as 2). If i'm 2P, then the 1 direction has that problem. Anyone ever figured out if its possible to calibrate the damn thing in ps3 menu ?

But Raph related, using the gamecube adaptor I can randomly do FC 3B when i'm trying to do 3B, without any touch of the guard button (the input display on the bottom of training mode shows me) so thats neat.
 
inputs are a mash of 2B and 3B

I'm 99% sure its because i'm using an adaptor since i've never ever gotten that on the ps3 pad
 
So I was curious about this but did anyone ever thought of using 3K as a wall combo reset type tool after a wallsplat to mindfuck a opponent and wallsplat the opponent again with 3A CH if you beat out your opponents attack/ 1B/ 66K or B+G? I thought it would be a cool tool to tinker with what do people think about this?
 
Just a personal tidbit on oki that nets me some extra damage if I'm smart about it: after most knockdowns, I find I really like pressing buttons like 2K and 2B, but often I try going for more damage or guard pressure with 66A+B and 66B+K. The fact that the former catches left rolls and 66B+K catches right rolls is important, as it becomes high probability damage when opponents try to roll away from walls.
 
I usually prefer 66 A+B and 66 B+K as well cuz even if they block it they take mad gauge dmg. besides that i also like 11k and 44A+B
 
"anti-rolling" might be a good topic.

For instance, after 4(B)~prepBBB, 2B doesn't really do that much less damage than 66A+B (in situations where A+BA wont hit against smaller characters).

I do like 2B on block though.

Otherwise I'm pretty much agreeing with Wyde. Running up with 6(6)1K just to mess with them once in a while. I've rarely had ground-rollers keep trying to continue ground rolling when I hit them with the sweep kick, as they'll opt for the 50/50 standing guard/crouching guard.
 
To observe the opponent's reactions/tendencies after blocking but you get to be in full crouch, which imo is pretty decent for raph lol
 
Yeah I've also been using 2b much more especially as an ender to the prep~bbb stun drop. As stated above it does comparable damage to 66A+B but the main advantage is it leaves them right up under you and forces a quick choice. I find after 66A+B the 1 - 2 seconds to close the space is 1-2 seconds your opponent has to think. 2b takes this time away as soon as they hit the ground if they choose to lay there or roll 2k will hit them. And if that 2k lands the damage is comparable to landing A+BA. One you train them to expect the 2k follow up it opens up a higher damage potential, both to your opponent's life bar and guard gauge.

As a poke what makes 2b so great is it's range and TC. It is a great tendency checker. If they try to poke back most moves that are fast enough to be a threat either are high or don't have the range to bridge the gap for some rather easy whiff punishing. If they have a tendency to just stand there and block roll that 236b for some easy guard damage. If they like to step either back off or cut them off to frustrate them. If they try to rush in and pitbull you, just throw out a 2a and if it hits you have an 8 frame advantage in a mid/throw mix up. And I think that is the crux of it, most poke battles tend to fall into throw range. 2b is a tool to keep the poke battle outside of throw range until you WANT to enter throw range.

And to tie it all together, I think that is how my Raph playing has evolved. I used to look at his moves and think the key was controlling spacing but using 2b more I find Raph more effective when he is controlling the pace rather than the space. Creating more opportunities for you to make more use of your 6 while taking away opportunities for your opponents to use theirs. Everyone knows to step Raph, so let them. Let them get in their rhythm, let them get a little comfortable, give them a safe zone. And then interrupt that rhythm and when they stop long enough to stand in the dead zone they are so constantly stepping to avoid, tag the hell out of them. And the real trick is making your opponent think you got lucky. That none of it was orchestrated or conditioned allowing them to lull back into that safe zone you painted out for them.
 
I wouldn't bother with that kind of talk. Most people in this forum are only interested in a safe range-and-poke game. No prep, no mind games. Unless 2k/3a counts as a mix-up.
 
skillusionist you bring up some great advantages for what is seemingly a simplistic move. i never quite thought of 2b like that, maybe its time for me to mess w it more often. WuHT i know you brought up the move before him but he just explained it cooler lol
 
I think its' easier to talk about tighter and safer pokes and checks. Big reward mind-games are generally more player vs player specific (or character matchups) so talking about may not be as applicable when you're up against different players.

Anyways, that long explanation of 2B sums it up nicely.
 
Good talk on 2B, but I am confused by this post:

Wyde said:
Just a personal tidbit on oki that nets me some extra damage if I'm smart about it: after most knockdowns, I find I really like pressing buttons like 2K and 2B, but often I try going for more damage or guard pressure with 66A+B and 66B+K. The fact that the former catches left rolls and 66B+K catches right rolls is important, as it becomes high probability damage when opponents try to roll away from walls.
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... serious? This isn't an ironic post?

66A+B and 66B+K do not hit people who are grounded. Not people who look at the screen and like to not take damage.
youngfox is closer to the truth, but he seems to have it backwards. It could just be from the minimalism of his post, but, it's the notion of 11K that gets 66A+B and 66B+K to hit, and only 11K. Just the 66X+Y moves alone are a breather for the opponent - he can stand, he can roll. He might roll unthinkingly and inherit 50% luck, or he can sure enough stand and escape entirely. Add to that, that 66B+K is rather crap on block now, and this can even be a reverse mixup, as my opponents always made it. There is no way this is ideal. You had a KND to work with. It's a blunder.

Instead, 11K comes in. Dash up 11K is somehow telegraphed less than I would ever think when it comes to wakeup. You have to cultivate an image of liking your 66A+B and 66B+K - both (because of the one-sidedness) - but 11K is more or less free for you when you achieve a KND. The mixup is no 11K and space, and steal an unsteppable something or other like 22B, BB, maybe dead 3A positioning, or whatever your "perfect range" pressure game is. If the opponent stands into crouch you get your ideal mixup instead of the reactable 66X+Y.**
The invulnerability of either roll is a trap for the 66s. It's a weakness that stops Raph from being ridic on grounded but you may use it as an asset in a way, if the opponent is high enough level to know that about the two moves, know you know that, but make bad gambles.

Also, close range A+BA > 66B+K as a reminder. To be on the lookout for good wakeup game, I find Mitsurugi more or less plays in the same way Raph can, so, with so few Raphs out there to mimic, there's at least that.
Specifically, if 66X+Ys are working for you, I advise dashing to 3B range and measuring what these guys are doing in the next half second. You can probably get CHs all over the place, then the 11K if they stop doing that.
** If that game doesn't work then I was wrong, your opponent's are instead overplaying their game knowledge and your 66X+Y is best. Look out for other ways that they are failing to establish the meta knowledge.
 
Mandritti said:
66A+B and 66B+K do not hit people who are grounded. Not people who look at the screen and like to not take damage.
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I did say that walls were a factor when choosing which of the two to use. Because honestly, for the most part, players likely won't roll *towards* a wall unless they have strong reverse ringout options. I only meant to say that they become more likely to land when thinking about ring positioning.
 
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