raphael match up chart

raph has the edge cause of his fast options

both AA and the first hit of aB are high so cervy attacking after a blocked bK is a greater risk then raph cause of raphs speed+TC

4B beats the first of aB BTW
How could Raph's 4B beat Cervy's aB? Cervy's A whiffs but his B hits Raph way before 4B even touches Cervy.

The other option I could think of for Raph is his 2A. It beats Cervy AA, K and aB but Cervy has other options. He can trade hits using 6K or auto-GI Raph's 2A with Cervy's 22_88K.

Can you name any of Raph's fast TC moves cuz the only one I could think of is his 2A; 4B is not fast at all.
 
oh wait.......

raph could just use 8A+B

to GI everything but as for TCs nothing really is fast just really high dmg options ill test 236B tomorrow and 4B im sure beats the B it has happened before
 
oh wait.......

raph could just use 8A+B to GI everything but as for TCs nothing really is fast just really high dmg options
So that means Cervy has to rely on other options. Itz basically rock, paper, scissor game where both have to out guess each other.

ill test 236B tomorrow and 4B im sure beats the B it has happened before
Tested already; Cervy's AA, K and aB beats Raph's 236B and I've tested Cervy's aB on Raph's 4B a couple of times and his aB still beats Raph's 4B.

But let's not derail this any further, my point being is that Cervy has ways of closing in on Raph; bK being one of them.
 
Itz basically rock, paper, scissor game where both have to out guess each other.

Congratulations, welcome to theory fighting 101 - The whole game is based on rock / paper / scissors.

saying Cervy has X, and then Raph has Y that can beat X, is not how these matchups get determined. Does Raph have a weakness that Cervy can exploit? Does this go the other way around?
 
bK is kinda slow you can hit him out of it on reaction provided you look for it

raph can punish cervy and keep him out of 1K range easily.

cervy has awful step

basicly franman says because cervy can step raph cervy wins...... which I think is BS because if that was the only determining factor in a match up raph would be 0:10 with everyone except algol

iGDR is 60 dmg on a punish correct? so is raphs 22B VE B:B

not a big deal in my eyes cervy to do his excellent dmg has to make raph duck(otherwise he will get punished). to do that he has to get within 1K range.......

not gonna happen against raph easily
 
raph can punish cervy and keep him out of 1K range easily.
Punish with what?

cervy has awful step

basicly franman says because cervy can step raph cervy wins...... which I think is BS because if that was the only determining factor in a match up raph would be 0:10 with everyone except algol
You've got the wrong idea.

Earlier you've stated that Cervy can't step so I interpret this as Cervy can't step any of Raph's moves. So I proceed to correct the situation by mentioning a couple of Raph's moves that Cervy can step.

I've also stated that Cervy doesn't really need step that much.

iGDR is 60 dmg on a punish correct? so is raphs 22B VE B:B

not a big deal in my eyes cervy to do his excellent dmg has to make raph duck(otherwise he will get punished). to do that he has to get within 1K range.......

not gonna happen against raph easily
The iGDR setup iGDR 22_88B 8A+K iGDR 28B leaves Cervy's back turned with a decent wake-up for him. If Raph gets up immediately he is in for a mix-up. Otherwise Raph has to play the wake-up game.

iGDR is not a threat? compare to Raph's 22B VE B:B iGDR seems more of threatening than his. iGDR covers more range and is @ i15.
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Congratulations, welcome to theory fighting 101 - The whole game is based on rock / paper / scissors.

saying Cervy has X, and then Raph has Y that can beat X, is not how these matchups get determined. Does Raph have a weakness that Cervy can exploit? Does this go the other way around?
Piggy I'm aware of that but the reason for me stating on like this is to prove that Raph doesn't have the edge when blocking Cervy's bK.

My main point is not emphasized on rock, paper, scissors game but because of the state of our argument it directs me to that. My main point is there are ways Cervy can close in on Raph bK and iTP being one of them and itz very situational.
 
Yeah I honestly don't see Cervy being that vulnerable to Raphael's crap.

I've also played a Cervy that aB'd any VE transition I did on reaction...you want to talk about irritating -_-....for an i13, that move HURTS....fuck it's lack of safety, good cervy's aren't throwing it out unless they KNOW it'll connect.
 
my personal opinion is that all of the listed matchups are generous to Raph, but I try not to get involved in these things too much
 
I was comparing the dmg with iGDR and 22B VE B:B

ALSO YOU MUST ATTACK OUT OF STANCE ITS THE TIER LIST LAW.

aB doesn't give me much problems, player tactics maybe?
 
I was comparing the dmg with iGDR and 22B VE B:B
ya I know you're comparing damage but comparing damage alone is a mistake to say that iGDR isn't a threat considering the fact that iGDR is fast, covers decent range and the setup combo puts Cervy in good wake-ups most of the situation with threatening BT mix-ups.

ALSO YOU MUST ATTACK OUT OF STANCE ITS THE TIER LIST LAW.
The only way I can see this is when you hit an opponent or when the Soul Gauge is flashing red, but how often does the opponent get hit by it compare to iGDR?

What about if Cervy blocks them? Raph would get punished hard since he's at -19 Cervy can either punish with 3B, iGDR or any other i19 move.
 
22 B:B is hit confirmable, as well as CH confirmable for those that cannot hit the JF, so unless we are looking for the gauge damage, the -19 will never be an issue
 
22 B:B is hit confirmable, as well as CH confirmable for those that cannot hit the JF, so unless we are looking for the gauge damage, the -19 will never be an issue
yes but I'm talking how often are opponents likely to get hit by Raph's 22 setup in the first place compare to be being hit by Cervy's iGDR setup?
 
about the same

seeing as 22B is a step punisher

i20 doesn't mean much on a whiff

I don't consider 60 dmg threatening SS punish but thats just me......

mostly because characters have moves like these:

kilik 22B

hilde C3B

algol 33B(as unlikely as algol SS punishing is)
 
what makes cervys 60 dmg more then raphs 60 dmg?

but if you say so....

10:0 cervy

raped cervy can step EVERYTHING raph can do on reaction %100 of the time
 
Bubbles I ain't going for damage.

I was doubting that Raph can hit Cervy with 22 just as often as Cervy hits Raph with iGDR.

My point being that the chances of Raph being hit by iGDR is more than Cervy being hit by Raph's 22.
 
i know i'm pretty late to this conversation, but meh, I gotta throw my 2 cents in on the Maxi match up. There is absolutely no way that this is 7:3 in raph's favor, i'd say its much closer to an even 5:5. Heres a few reasons why I feel this way.

Step Punish:
Most people don't really realize that Maxi has one of the better steps in the game, and with :B:+:K:::B:::B:::B:::A: he can actually hurt you pretty bad if you get stepped (67 damage on NH).

44B
A lot of people think that 44B wrecks Maxi, but he actually has a few good ways of dealing with that. Maxi can always throw out some 66B+Ks if he thinks Raph is gonna 44B, and Raph can't even punish it. Another great answer to 44B is Maxi's 236K. If I recall correctly, 236K will actually beat out 44B from all but near max range, and that nets Maxi 60+ damage + wakes. And since 236K is only -15~-16 and TCs through most of the animation, Raph cant really punish it much.

Long Range Poking
Maxi doesn't really have too much of a problem here. 33A can get around a linear poke and gets Maxi in pretty quick. Again, 236K can mess up raph once maxi gets closer to mid range, since it tech crouches super early in the animation and has pretty good range. And then theres just good ol' 4B. 4B has pretty good range and raph has to be really careful about doing anything after blocking 4B since raph doesn't have a great fast step killing mid to discourage LI B abuse.
 
Does anyone know how to CH and track Ivy's 214 effectively?
Which moves are better for punishing Ivy's 214 on block?
This move gives me some trouble.
Thank you.
 
i know i'm pretty late to this conversation, but meh, I gotta throw my 2 cents in on the Maxi match up. There is absolutely no way that this is 7:3 in raph's favor, i'd say its much closer to an even 5:5. Heres a few reasons why I feel this way.

Step Punish:
Most people don't really realize that Maxi has one of the better steps in the game, and with :B:+:K:::B:::B:::B:::A: he can actually hurt you pretty bad if you get stepped (67 damage on NH).

44B
A lot of people think that 44B wrecks Maxi, but he actually has a few good ways of dealing with that. Maxi can always throw out some 66B+Ks if he thinks Raph is gonna 44B, and Raph can't even punish it. Another great answer to 44B is Maxi's 236K. If I recall correctly, 236K will actually beat out 44B from all but near max range, and that nets Maxi 60+ damage + wakes. And since 236K is only -15~-16 and TCs through most of the animation, Raph cant really punish it much.

Long Range Poking
Maxi doesn't really have too much of a problem here. 33A can get around a linear poke and gets Maxi in pretty quick. Again, 236K can mess up raph once maxi gets closer to mid range, since it tech crouches super early in the animation and has pretty good range. And then theres just good ol' 4B. 4B has pretty good range and raph has to be really careful about doing anything after blocking 4B since raph doesn't have a great fast step killing mid to discourage LI B abuse.

against maxi all that i use is 2A and 6B ... if i have a chance 11b/44K over his lows and 33KB if i can step something.
AB is good also but it's hard to land in the middle of his strings.

And i don't think 44B is an offensive tool >.> so i don't agree with your point....

For the antistep fast mid....maybe its true...but he has that awesome special low that is 2a >.>

@silent:
to CH 2A is good and gives you enough advantage on hit to spam a throw or a 33KB but maybe there is a better solution....
after blocking i use 236B i20 against his -21 or (:D just for fun) you could even try a teleport XD

I found teleport is somehow usable against some stance moves.
 
Does anyone know how to CH and track Ivy's 214 effectively?
Which moves are better for punishing Ivy's 214 on block?
This move gives me some trouble.
Thank you.


No single effective solution to tracking it, especially at mid to long range. Be aware of her when she is in coil stance where the move is available. Punish with 3B/4B/236B on block, not sure for BD.
 
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