raphael match up chart

ivy owns raph

not even amy can punish raphs 44B is -8 on block iirc

X's 44B is unsafe

and really linear
 
Warning : Online-only comments

From the Ivy's i've played, i've almost always felt like I had to leave my comfort zone to either close the gap/get in close OR back up to avoid some of her quicker moves. The moment you are at optimal range for pokes (3B/1A/33B/22B) it's already pretty good in your favour, but I feel somehow I lose control of that distance/spacing easier against ivy than other characters.
 
Ivy forces you to rush her because she can get easier rewards at long range than Raph, but up close she has some really annoying mix-ups not to mention command grab. Her damage is also much better. It's not a terrible match up by any means but she holds the advantage and a solid Ivy player will force you to really out play them or die. As for X, like I said she doesn't do big damage and doesn't have the best offense. Her only chance of hurting you is when you make a mistake, just be patient and chip at her while punishing her baits.
 
i changed cervy to raphs favor

*cervy players come to protest their character is being beat by linear trash*
 
Ya I wonder why you made the match up against Cervy 6:4 in Raph's favour?

What tools does Raph have that are effective against the pirate?
 
he cant step

cervy also has non-threatening step punishment compared to other characters

cervy just has trouble getting close to raph and if he cant get close the raph wont duck limiting cervys effectiveness
 
Bubbles said:
he cant step
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Even as a poor stepper he can still step most of Raph's linear moves such as B's, 6B's. Online itz even more difficult so itz like he can't.

Bubbles said:
cervy also has non-threatening step punishment compared to other characters
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You mean step punishment as in Cervy stepping from an attack and punishing it or Cervy's anti-step tools that are non-threatening.

For Cervy's step game he can generally punish a whiff move with iGDR and 3B.

As for Cervy's anti-step tools he's got 44A which is like -1 on block and on whiff he recovers pretty quick, he's got 66A which knocks the opponent down and 3A+B,

Bubbles said:
cervy just has trouble getting close to raph and if he cant get close the raph wont duck limiting cervys effectiveness
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I think the problem is that you're basing it online. Offline he can step Raph's linear attacks even 1A he can stepped on a given situation. Cervy's got bK as it has okay range to mix-up Raph players.

Now unless you're talking online Raph then I agree; however, offline I'm a bit skeptical I did face against one Raph player offline and my impression is Raph is not that threatening to Cervy, but then again it could've been the player.
 
franman your naming terrible moves........ thats like me saying raph beats cervy because raph punishes BBB hard

6B is awful....

1A isnt bad but its not anti step

AB tracks both sides I whore that move so maybe its the player I dont get step punished much because I mostly use AB and BB. BB still has a fair amount of tracking. so your probably right in saying its the player. cervy cant step raphs GOOD moves consistently like 3B or AB/AA/A
 
ya but your observation seems to be basing off online which is why he can't step consistently.

Bubbles said:
franman your naming terrible moves........ thats like me saying raph beats cervy because raph punishes BBB hard
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I don't get where in my quote are you getting this idea from but I was responding to your quote about Cervy's step punishment being non threatening.

Even if Cervy ain't a good stepper he doesn't need it as much. Not even Raph's A, AA, and AB can do much to stop him as it leaves Raph @ -ve on block.

The pirate is all about big damage and all Raph relies on are his pokes.
 
wait...... are you saying raphs AA/AB/A doesnt stop step? huh?

no these are raphs best step killers despite each hit of AA tracking a different way

cery isnt gonna step these

and I mean you act like 6B is a good move same with 1A.

honestly I think your basing this off of the generalization that RAPH CANT DEAL WITH STEP ZOMG, but ill let people keep thinking that easier for me when the time comes.........
 
Bubbles said:
wait...... are you saying raphs AA/AB/A doesnt stop step? huh?
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no I'm saying that just because Raph has that, itz not enough to prevent Cervy from getting closer. Don't forget he has iTP. And itz not like you can AA/AB/A forever you know they begin with a high so Cervy can either do a B2 or A+B or 1A to anticipate.

Bubbles said:
I mean you act like 6B is a good move same with 1A.
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That was in response to your quote that Cervy can't step. You sound as though Cervy can't step any of Raph's moves.

Bubbles said:
honestly I think your basing this off of the generalization that RAPH CANT DEAL WITH STEP ZOMG, but ill let people keep thinking that easier for me when the time comes.........
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Well let's put it this way... I don't take advice from guyz who play against Cervy straight from online.

Even if your claim is based on someone who does have experience against Raphs offline itz just one source and one source is one too little.

Also how can you tell if you never even face a good Cervy player offline?
 
you're missing the fact that Cervy has iTP. Not to mention Cervy has bK as a good mixup tool on block. I mean there are other ways Cervy can close in.

As I said earlier Cervy doesn't really need to step that much.
 
ok iTP .... its a gamble in the first place and your going to base your whole game off it? ok

BUT bK IS SLOW AND LINEAR YOU CAN STEP IT!
 
Bubbles said:
ok iTP .... its a gamble in the first place and your going to base your whole game off it? ok

BUT bK IS SLOW AND LINEAR YOU CAN STEP IT!
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Well that depends on the situation. Just like AA/AB/A there's a good situation when to use them. They all depend on the player.
 
so what your saying is.......

if you use bK right you cant step it

but you can step raphs i16 3B/BB always regardless of the situation?

AB is a staple move

+2 on hit -12 on block its pretty good regardless of the situation
 
If I feel you're not gonna step then I use it. You pretty much have to mix it up in your game. Even OOF blocks bK with Vader and Vader is a very good stepper and stepping is part of OOF's game.

Even @ -12 Raph is prone for mix-ups.
 
so raph MUST use 3B or BB ? he always has to do something linear even if he feels your gonna step it?

this is my problem with match up charts people make generalizations like that

not every raph plays linear.......

aslo if raph blocks bK he has the edge

raph is faster then cervy even if cervy has something to beat out raph, raphs 44B will discourage a fast move
 
Bubbles said:
so raph MUST use 3B or BB ? he always has to do something linear even if he feels your gonna step it?
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if the person whiffs or does a punishable move why not. Otherwise I use them with caution.

Bubbles said:
also if raph blocks bK he has the edge
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how exactly does Raph have the edge?

Bubbles said:
raph is faster then cervy even if cervy has something to beat out raph, raphs 44B will discourage a fast move
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How exactly is Raph faster than Cervy? Cervy's got AA, K and aB at i13 Raph only has 6B. Even if Raph retreats with 44B Cervy's got aB and his B will likely catch him.
 
franman said:
if the person whiffs or does a punishable move why not. Otherwise I use them with caution.

how exactly does Raph have the edge?

How exactly is Raph faster than Cervy? Cervy's got AA, K and aB at i13 Raph only has 6B. Even if Raph retreats with 44B Cervy's got aB and his B will likely catch him.
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raph has the edge cause of his fast options

both AA and the first hit of aB are high so cervy attacking after a blocked bK is a greater risk then raph cause of raphs speed+TC

4B beats the first of aB BTW
 
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